RAF Warrant Officer
Mostafa,
The workings of Khaki Command always puzzle me, but according to the press release:
A bit of googling suggests appointment this was introduced in 2008ish
The workings of Khaki Command always puzzle me, but according to the press release:
Sergeant Major Haughton was selected for Late Entry Commission in 2012 and went on to put officer cadets at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst through their paces as the Academy Sergeant Major. In doing so, he joined a select group of 30 Command Sergeant Majors in the British Army, selected from among the strongest applicants on the Late Entry Commissioning Boards. He now heads up that group as the Army Sergeant Major, providing guidance and direction from the very top of the Army, and feeding back the soldiers’ voice to Higher Command.
I am rather taken with the mention that:
"At the end of his three-year tenure, he will be moving on to the year-long Intermediate Command and Staff Course at Shrivenham, for which he will take up his substantive promotion to Major."
Can the Warrant Officer of the Naval Service and the Chief of the Air Staff's Warrant Officer look forward to shipping two and a half stripes similarly, not to mention the Royal Marines Corps Regimental Sergeant Major?
"At the end of his three-year tenure, he will be moving on to the year-long Intermediate Command and Staff Course at Shrivenham, for which he will take up his substantive promotion to Major."
Can the Warrant Officer of the Naval Service and the Chief of the Air Staff's Warrant Officer look forward to shipping two and a half stripes similarly, not to mention the Royal Marines Corps Regimental Sergeant Major?
It does say he was accepted for Late Service Commission, so presumably they have delayed him taking up his Commission to hold the ASM post?
I've just remembered that many years ago when I was dealing in medals I bought a group of four, consisting of the usual three for WW1 and the RAF LS & GC with George V's head. The recipient's rank as impressed on his LS & GC was "Sergeant Major 1st Class". The ranks of sergeant major 1st and 2nd classes remained in the RAF until 1933 until they were renamed Warrant Officer(1st and 2nd classes).
I bet even Danny doesn't remember RAF Sergeant Majors
I bet even Danny doesn't remember RAF Sergeant Majors
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Geordie_Expat,
Reading his name brought a chuckle to my throat. I worked upstairs in the blue half of the UKDSU. When Godfrey-Cass arrived, he tried it on with my Chief Clerk, Bill Brooks, but I'm afraid that he came a distant second in that competition.
Reading his name brought a chuckle to my throat. I worked upstairs in the blue half of the UKDSU. When Godfrey-Cass arrived, he tried it on with my Chief Clerk, Bill Brooks, but I'm afraid that he came a distant second in that competition.
Dave, ah well, I'm sorry mate, I've never heard of them but I guess it is just another of these wonderful ideas our PC loving politicians and the rather poor commanders we have had recently thats made our armed forces into the equally fluffy fun loving organisation it is nowadays. Lets face it they can change whatever they like at a stroke of a pen, who gives a toss for tradition anyway!
I notice the Army Sergeant Major (WO1) is a Guardsman, strange that - the only army regiment not decimated by 30 years of disbandments or whatever the government called the disbandments the last time.
I'm off to let the Royal Air Force discuss their own Warrant Officers as I should have in the beginning!
I notice the Army Sergeant Major (WO1) is a Guardsman, strange that - the only army regiment not decimated by 30 years of disbandments or whatever the government called the disbandments the last time.
I'm off to let the Royal Air Force discuss their own Warrant Officers as I should have in the beginning!
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
I notice the Army Sergeant Major (WO1) is a Guardsman, strange that - the only army regiment not decimated by 30 years of disbandments or whatever the government called the disbandments the last time.
There has to be some perk involved with standing in front of Betty Windsor's house with a big hat on for all those years.
The Army Sergeant Major seems to be wearing a staff officers' hat badge on his beret. The army always deified its Sergeant Majors and even in the Sgts' Mess at Benson woe betide anybody of either service who ordered a drink before the RSM arrived in the bar.
On other RAF Stations I've known one or two CMCs like that but not usually the SWO.
On other RAF Stations I've known one or two CMCs like that but not usually the SWO.
There is a post very much along those lines, where a visiting WO was ignored by the barman until the RSM/CMC/other WO of a type I can't remember (R/C/other WO) came in. Said R/C/other WO came swanning in shortly afterwards with his gang of sycophants whereupon our visiting WO, who was senior in every conceivable way to the R/C/other WO debriefed him loudly and in a one way fashion as to what he thought of R/C/other WO and his behaviour.
Which brings to mind the Earl of Bandon, but he wasn't a WO...
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Down south in '90, the RAOC (as it was then) guys got all excited as THE Conductor was arriving. When we got finished asking which band was coming down they explained about his appointment, and started to brag that he "would sort out this crab Mess" OWTTE. On arrival he made his number with the CMC and the SWO, reminded his guys that they were in an RAF WO's and SGTs mess and our rules and customs applied, he was a top bloke.
I agree entirely that the man not the badge earned the respect. I've only known a small number of Master Aircrew but 3 stick in the mind as top guys.
Gerry Smith, Master Pilot on 1574Flt Changi, the late Peter Barwell AFC and Barry "Smokey" Furness, both Master Air Loadmasters of 84 Sqn, Akrotiri.
I agree entirely that the man not the badge earned the respect. I've only known a small number of Master Aircrew but 3 stick in the mind as top guys.
Gerry Smith, Master Pilot on 1574Flt Changi, the late Peter Barwell AFC and Barry "Smokey" Furness, both Master Air Loadmasters of 84 Sqn, Akrotiri.
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The Army Sergeant Major seems to be wearing a staff officers' hat badge on his beret. The army always deified its Sergeant Majors and even in the Sgts' Mess at Benson woe betide anybody of either service who ordered a drink before the RSM arrived in the bar.
On other RAF Stations I've known one or two CMCs like that but not usually the SWO.
On other RAF Stations I've known one or two CMCs like that but not usually the SWO.
All very confusing.
CONDUCTORS senior?
Total cobblers, put about by ............
............. CONDUCTORS.
There's a surprise.
Yes they were the earliest WO created, 1879 as opposed to 1881.
Yes they can take place of subalterns on relevant parades, but
No, each Conductor is/was a WO I [after 1915 when WO II was created] whose seniority within group (i) below is determined by date of warrant. The small print says that all in this group are of same status but each is "senior" when carrying out the duties of the appointment. Thus at Sandhurst the AcSM is king, and indeed a SWO on his own station.
Much of the conductors' huffing and puffing stems from the alphabetical nature of how the list used to be presented, but many issues of KR and QR have footnotes which spell out that this is not a precedence list.
I imagine these new Army and Corps appointments have been/ will be added to Army QRs and of course will be in group (i).
Warrant Officer – class 1
(i) Conductor, RLC,Ro Artillery Sergeant Major, Academy sergeant major, RMAS, Garrison sergeant major London District
[there are three junior WO I groupings listed.}
The list is taken from the last hard copy Army QR as amended.
Total cobblers, put about by ............
............. CONDUCTORS.
There's a surprise.
Yes they were the earliest WO created, 1879 as opposed to 1881.
Yes they can take place of subalterns on relevant parades, but
No, each Conductor is/was a WO I [after 1915 when WO II was created] whose seniority within group (i) below is determined by date of warrant. The small print says that all in this group are of same status but each is "senior" when carrying out the duties of the appointment. Thus at Sandhurst the AcSM is king, and indeed a SWO on his own station.
Much of the conductors' huffing and puffing stems from the alphabetical nature of how the list used to be presented, but many issues of KR and QR have footnotes which spell out that this is not a precedence list.
I imagine these new Army and Corps appointments have been/ will be added to Army QRs and of course will be in group (i).
Warrant Officer – class 1
(i) Conductor, RLC,Ro Artillery Sergeant Major, Academy sergeant major, RMAS, Garrison sergeant major London District
[there are three junior WO I groupings listed.}
The list is taken from the last hard copy Army QR as amended.
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Somewhat OT, but I was visiting an RAAF station, on duty in uniform, and was having a quiet beer with my RAAF oppo. All the other people entering the Bar came up to me and said variations of "G'day, Sir" before going to get a drink. My oppo explained I was the senior officer present [eeek].
It does say he was accepted for Late Service Commission, so presumably they have delayed him taking up his Commission to hold the ASM post? - Davef68
Irrespective of how long the course at Shrivenham lasts, it still seems a pretty good short-cut to becoming a major when one consider what other officers have to do to reach that rank or its equivalent!
Jack
Irrespective of how long the course at Shrivenham lasts, it still seems a pretty good short-cut to becoming a major when one consider what other officers have to do to reach that rank or its equivalent!
Jack
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CONDUCTORS senior?
Total cobblers, put about by ............
............. CONDUCTORS.
There's a surprise.
Yes they were the earliest WO created, 1879 as opposed to 1881.
Yes they can take place of subalterns on relevant parades, but
No, each Conductor is/was a WO I [after 1915 when WO II was created] whose seniority within group (i) below is determined by date of warrant. The small print says that all in this group are of same status but each is "senior" when carrying out the duties of the appointment. Thus at Sandhurst the AcSM is king, and indeed a SWO on his own station.
Much of the conductors' huffing and puffing stems from the alphabetical nature of how the list used to be presented, but many issues of KR and QR have footnotes which spell out that this is not a precedence list.
I imagine these new Army and Corps appointments have been/ will be added to Army QRs and of course will be in group (i).
Warrant Officer – class 1
(i) Conductor, RLC,Ro Artillery Sergeant Major, Academy sergeant major, RMAS, Garrison sergeant major London District
[there are three junior WO I groupings listed.}
The list is taken from the last hard copy Army QR as amended.
Total cobblers, put about by ............
............. CONDUCTORS.
There's a surprise.
Yes they were the earliest WO created, 1879 as opposed to 1881.
Yes they can take place of subalterns on relevant parades, but
No, each Conductor is/was a WO I [after 1915 when WO II was created] whose seniority within group (i) below is determined by date of warrant. The small print says that all in this group are of same status but each is "senior" when carrying out the duties of the appointment. Thus at Sandhurst the AcSM is king, and indeed a SWO on his own station.
Much of the conductors' huffing and puffing stems from the alphabetical nature of how the list used to be presented, but many issues of KR and QR have footnotes which spell out that this is not a precedence list.
I imagine these new Army and Corps appointments have been/ will be added to Army QRs and of course will be in group (i).
Warrant Officer – class 1
(i) Conductor, RLC,Ro Artillery Sergeant Major, Academy sergeant major, RMAS, Garrison sergeant major London District
[there are three junior WO I groupings listed.}
The list is taken from the last hard copy Army QR as amended.
In my time (I've been out 20 years); the Conductors (RAOC, then RLC) were the senior WO1's in the British Army; their rank was WO1 (Conductor).
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It does say he was accepted for Late Service Commission, so presumably they have delayed him taking up his Commission to hold the ASM post? - Davef68
Irrespective of how long the course at Shrivenham lasts, it still seems a pretty good short-cut to becoming a major when one consider what other officers have to do to reach that rank or its equivalent!
Jack
Irrespective of how long the course at Shrivenham lasts, it still seems a pretty good short-cut to becoming a major when one consider what other officers have to do to reach that rank or its equivalent!
Jack
I'm back and confused after after looking it up in the London Gazette - my LE Comission from WO1 says that I was promoted 2Lt 5 years prior to my actual commissioning date, promoted Lt 4 years prior to my actual commissioning date and promoted Captain on my actual commissioning date. So I guess that's how it's done for LE Captains but promotion to Major is/was done by selection after 4 years seniority (Captain) and published on the beige list so goodness knows how this bloke goes straight to Field rank! But times do change.
Tightgit
Godfrey Cass!!!
Good grief! He was GSM (Garrison Sgt Major, as has been explained earlier), of Detmold back in 1979-82ish!!
Funny how some names never leave you!
Good grief! He was GSM (Garrison Sgt Major, as has been explained earlier), of Detmold back in 1979-82ish!!
Funny how some names never leave you!
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MOSTAFA - you were not promoted to 2Lt. On commissioning you (briefly) left the service and were COMMISSIONED as my boss pointed out to me when I moaned "What was the use of being promoted to Flying Officer" or some such during one of our career interviews. This, BTW, from a guy who manoeuvred acting rank for me in order to post me to FI Ops tour, told me to get my mess dress re-ranked and then to attend a graduation of my students and then, as PMC, fined me a bottle of port as the acting rank was not effective until I stepped on the Tri*. What a w****r!
Alison I'm only telling you what it said in the LG I agree with you, but it says I was promoted LG words to 2Lt then Lt several years before, whilst I was still a WO1 undoubtedly this is the way it was done to ensure you were a sub Captain on your actual commissioning date. As for leaving for the army for a day I quite agree. Sorry if I confused you.
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Davef68 (62) and Union Jack (#73) et al,
Without doing any research, I seem to remember that historically the Army had Lieutenant-Generals and Sergeant-Major Generals. The 'Sergeant' got dropped off, but the 'Major' stuck, so a Lieutenant General is a 3-star, but a Major General only two.
Danny.
Without doing any research, I seem to remember that historically the Army had Lieutenant-Generals and Sergeant-Major Generals. The 'Sergeant' got dropped off, but the 'Major' stuck, so a Lieutenant General is a 3-star, but a Major General only two.
Danny.