RAF Warrant Officer
 

Can anyone offer an explanation to a simple question from someone who has been around the RAF for 25 years, but not in the RAF. No particular reason for asking other than curiosity. Just a genuine question tried to put as simpy as possible:-

When a commisioned officer calls a Corporal, Sergent etc. he addresses them as Rank then 'surname'. When he calls a Warrant Officer, he addresses him as Mister 'surname'.
When enlisted individuals address a Corporal, Sergent etc. they addresses them as rank then 'surname'. However, when adressing a Warrant Officer, it is as Sir - even though he is not an officer in the established rank structure.

Can anyome offer an explanation?

Many thanks

Royal Warrant? :confused:

An officer holds the Queen's Commission which has a higher status.

I could be wrong.

Warrant Officers call Officer Cadets "Sir". Officer Cadets call Warrant Officers "Sir", the only difference is that they mean it!

Sorry for the flippancy, the point is that a Warrant Officer is

He holds a Warrant, in contrast to a Commission. NCO's in that regard are Officers, though Not Commissioned. In other words an "Officer" is someone holding authority over those who are not officers. Think of the two Ronnies and John Cleese. Cleese is the Commissioned Officer, Barker the Warrant Officer (or possibly NCO), Corbett "Knows his place".

A Warrant Officer is not promoted into the rank, he or she is appointed to it by the monarch via a Royal Warrant (mentioned earlier). That sets him aside from any other enlisted airman or woman. With the appointment goes the priviledge of being addressed by subordinates as, 'Sir' or 'Ma'am'. Who actualy calls whom what is a matter steeped in history and tradition I should have thought.

CG

....and whether they had shaved their legs on that day or not...:E

My last Flight Commander called me "educationally sub-normal", rather than "Mr lsh", should I sue?!

lsh
:E

Shaved? Some I remember would need a plane! And Si, if you can spell 'educationally sub-normal' you ain't- sue!

CG

CG, I had no idea you'd changed your name to Sue! Is this why you mentioned some needing a plane? :p

lsh, Long time no see - I was very recently telling someone the "Bark once for yes, twice for no!" story :ok:

As an ex-Army WO; officers and peers called me "Mr" (or my appointment), everybody else subordinate, it was "Sir".

Don't know the why or therefore; it wasn't described in QR's, so I suspect it's a tradition.

Don't know the why or therefore; it wasn't described in QR's, so I suspect it's a tradition.

....rather than a habit.:D

Jack

& then you get SWO's.....

Conductor
 

Of course there was also a rank of Conductor that was superior to all NCO and inferior to all Officers. Shame its gone now. Silly name

The first Warrant officers were in the Royal Navy. Command of ships was given to members of the aristocracy by a Royal Commission. Unfortunately, they couldn't actually sail the ships and so they employed professional seamen to do the actual sailing. These professional officers came to be appointed by Royal Warrant. During Nelson's time they were also the only permanent members of a ship's complement. Everyone else only remained on the ship for the duration of a commission, ie between refits.

The use of the term Mister probably comes from the polite mode of address by aristocrats for professional people, ie Master or Mister. They were still officers to everyone else on board for which Sir was appropriate.

As mentioned before; largely the result of tradition rather than design. The Army and then the RAF simply followed long.

Try telling that to a WO who will have sweated decades to get the title "Sir" when Occifers are awarded it while still wet behind the ears. ;)

As the saying goes - "once I couldn't even spell Occifer now I are one!" :hmm:

... and besides, wise officers don't order a WO - they consult.
In the case of an army RSM, wise officers consult - then defer to.

One recalls the tale of a Staish who was being dined into the Sgts' Mess. As the CMC (a WO) escorted him to the table, he said:

"Congratulations on your promotion Sir, but just remember that means you've now had 3 merit promotions; I've had 4!"

Is it acceptable for subordinates to address an army warrant officer as "sergeant major", or should it always be "sir"?

Gipsy Magpie I think I am right in saying that the rank of conductor still exists in the Royal Logistics Corps. The name dates back to the 14th Century when there was no standing army and the king appointed men to "conduct" troops which had been raised in various parts of the country down to ports of embarkation, normally on the south coast en route to France. Later on the job entailed making sure that cannon and other heavy ordnance got safely to the ports, and thus the title eventually passed to senior warrant officers in the Army (later Royal Army) Ordnance Corps, which was absorbed by the RLC some years ago.

As was mentioned, conductors are the most senior warrant officers in the British Army, a fact which is a constant source of irritation to those splendidly attired warrant officers in the Guards Division!

Is that still the case? I think this gentleman/role is now considered to be the most senior warrant officer or is it just badly worded press releases? I stand to be corrected!

The Army creates its most senior post ever for a soldier - British Army Website

New Army Role Creates Bridge Between Senior Staff And Serving Soldiers | Forces TV

Unsurprisingly, the first incumbent is from the Guards Division....