Red Arrows: Inside the Bubble
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AOC, Wessex/Chinook pilot. He stood up and got me out of some deep sh1t twelve years ago. He could have let me be the fall guy and take the blame for a fatal. Not a poison dwarf for me :-)
Avoid imitations
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Nor me. However.......
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An enjoyable programme, obviously using standard "hype it up" techniques. A couple of questions, why does the AOCS need to wear a "grow bag" with an outsize arse ?
Bar that, not bad in not a bit stage managed.
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Well, I reserved judgement as requested but it turned-out just as predicted. Garbage, of typical BBC proportions.
What is this obsession with "Jeopardy Moments" on every programme? Will they pass the PDA? Course they will, otherwise we've all been hallucinating the past few weeks. Why can't they treat viewers like adults without the hype, silly music, and patronising commentary?
What was that rubbish about the team facing a critical moment just because one Hawk pulled out with an extended ladder? God help us, is that the kind of nonsense we need to hear? And what was that endless garbage about how much g the pilot is pulling, at precisely the times when he wasn't actually pulling any g? And what about the other 99 percent of the display that was never mentioned? Did it tell anyone what it is like to fly a display routine? God no, that would have been too intelligent for us viewers.
Seriously, the RAFAT deserve better than this rubbish. But it is the kind of infantile stuff we expect from the TV these days, sadly.
What is this obsession with "Jeopardy Moments" on every programme? Will they pass the PDA? Course they will, otherwise we've all been hallucinating the past few weeks. Why can't they treat viewers like adults without the hype, silly music, and patronising commentary?
What was that rubbish about the team facing a critical moment just because one Hawk pulled out with an extended ladder? God help us, is that the kind of nonsense we need to hear? And what was that endless garbage about how much g the pilot is pulling, at precisely the times when he wasn't actually pulling any g? And what about the other 99 percent of the display that was never mentioned? Did it tell anyone what it is like to fly a display routine? God no, that would have been too intelligent for us viewers.
Seriously, the RAFAT deserve better than this rubbish. But it is the kind of infantile stuff we expect from the TV these days, sadly.
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I just caught it on iPlayer as I'm not in the UK. Excellent, I thought! Well done Joe Hourston; it's a long time since you showed me your PFLs!!
But. In typical PPRuNe style, sooooooo much whinging about the Commonwealth Games. The thread is about the Reds!! Suck it up princess(s).
Great TV. I think some of the comments are a bit harsh. I don't think it infantile. Remember the audience; the great British public.
But. In typical PPRuNe style, sooooooo much whinging about the Commonwealth Games. The thread is about the Reds!! Suck it up princess(s).
Great TV. I think some of the comments are a bit harsh. I don't think it infantile. Remember the audience; the great British public.
Last edited by betty swallox; 28th Jul 2014 at 01:05.
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Very good and without the usual semi-mocking 'plinky-plonk' music you usually get in modern documentaries. Some really great photography and editing, made it very clear that it is all about teamwork.
If you dissected how RAFAT flies compared to other teams, what is the difference, why is RAFAT deemed to be the benchmark that others aspire to? I'm sure that other pilots are just as technically on the ball but if you looked objectively at a performance from RAFAT, what makes it different to say, the Thunderbirds? Do teams have different approaches to what they are trying to deliver, ie technical prowess or 'just' something visually amazing but not technically all that demanding?
Display teams.....
......I think Al, its because the Reds "flow" and it all happens in front of the audience (formation changes at the top of a loop f'rinstance).
The Thunderbirds display seems to take ages and there are significant gaps while they rearrange the formation. Yes, they do fly incredibly close to each other but there is "static" quality to it, a bit hard to describe.
Having had the good fortune to have flown with the Patrouille De France during a practice of their full display (a long time ago, think Fouga Magisters) they seemed to have the same philosophy as the Reds but slightly "rougher round the edges" which gave them an "edgy" feel.
The Reds sometime make it lok TOO easy which is why some people go with the "yawn" quotes. I think they really ARE the best.
The Ancient Mariner
The Thunderbirds display seems to take ages and there are significant gaps while they rearrange the formation. Yes, they do fly incredibly close to each other but there is "static" quality to it, a bit hard to describe.
Having had the good fortune to have flown with the Patrouille De France during a practice of their full display (a long time ago, think Fouga Magisters) they seemed to have the same philosophy as the Reds but slightly "rougher round the edges" which gave them an "edgy" feel.
The Reds sometime make it lok TOO easy which is why some people go with the "yawn" quotes. I think they really ARE the best.
The Ancient Mariner
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Thanks, that's pretty much what I was wondering. Theatrical bells and whistles compared to seat of the pants derring do is a gross and unfair over simplification and doesn't do the skills justice but that's interesting, cheers.
I tweeted just now; the memorial on the cliffs just made the whole tempo of the prog pause for just a brief moment and remind ourselves that these are young lives on the line too, no matter how those skills are demonstrated or how many crass (as you say) yawns are offered.
We should be very proud of them, anyone who strives to be the best or however it's delivered - especially in a world where the pursuit of turgid mediocrity seems to be the goal.
I tweeted just now; the memorial on the cliffs just made the whole tempo of the prog pause for just a brief moment and remind ourselves that these are young lives on the line too, no matter how those skills are demonstrated or how many crass (as you say) yawns are offered.
We should be very proud of them, anyone who strives to be the best or however it's delivered - especially in a world where the pursuit of turgid mediocrity seems to be the goal.
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I'm far too old and cynical to go "Oooooh, the Red Arrows", but I did enjoy the programme. For me, the briefings and 'mental rehearsals' were an interesting insight.
I do agree that AOC in a flying suit was incongruous and, dare I say, inappropriate - was he trying to look like 'one of the boys'? Looking like an AOC would have been better, IMO.
I do agree that AOC in a flying suit was incongruous and, dare I say, inappropriate - was he trying to look like 'one of the boys'? Looking like an AOC would have been better, IMO.
Quite enjoyed the programme, but does anyone wear RAF uniform any more? It was all grow bags and cabbage kit - the AOC was even clad in a grow bag to stand on a beach watching the display!
Stunning! I couldn't get anywhere near it. That's why I was a truckie 
OK, it would be great to see the REAL lead up, warts and all, but this was for public consumption.
p.s. 1.3Vs:
You should see family night in the mess where I attend an annual reunion. My jaw did slacken off slightly the first time I saw it but I'm sort of accustomed to it now
OK, it would be great to see the REAL lead up, warts and all, but this was for public consumption.
p.s. 1.3Vs:
but does anyone wear RAF uniform any more?
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It's quite amazing that after watching it, I asked a friend (who knows nothing about aeroplanes) if he was any more informed about how the RA fly their displays, what it actually involves, or how difficult it is. You can guess his reply. The only salient comments I heard from him were "3g, you can get that at Alton Towers" (during that toe-curling, inaccurate description of roll backs), and "oh right, a free holiday then" when the team set-off to Akrotiri. So I guess the programme achieved absolutely nothing, other than wasting even more license money.
It was full of misleading commentary, devoted far too much time to the obsessive "jeopardy" of the PDA (one assumes they would have liked the team to practice against the clock if it had been possible - and have a fashion makeover too), and didn't even manage to show much quality photography. Most of the photography was pretty tame, and the aerial stuff was a combination of stock imagery, or new stuff that was edited into tiny clips that seemed pointless. Even the "demonstration" footage was shot very poorly (was that really the best in-cockpit view they could manage?), and then it was ruined by pointless (and confusing) slow motion, and a dumb (inaccurate) commentary.
No matter how you looked at it, the programme was just as naff as I expected it to be. Sad truth is that TV people are incapable of producing anything worthwhile on any aviation subjects. Reason is simple - the producers of these programmes and the people who commission them know nothing about the subject, so they turn every programme into standard television fare - jeopardy, perceived (or manufactured) excitement, people/family stories, etc. They treat every subject in the same way because they're incapable of working in any other way.
It's remarkable that an iconic subject such as the Reds is handled so poorly. I guess it's just as remarkable that a lot of people sit-back and say "that was good" when it patently wasn't. License money wasted once again, and the Reds denied the kind of coverage that they deserve.
It was full of misleading commentary, devoted far too much time to the obsessive "jeopardy" of the PDA (one assumes they would have liked the team to practice against the clock if it had been possible - and have a fashion makeover too), and didn't even manage to show much quality photography. Most of the photography was pretty tame, and the aerial stuff was a combination of stock imagery, or new stuff that was edited into tiny clips that seemed pointless. Even the "demonstration" footage was shot very poorly (was that really the best in-cockpit view they could manage?), and then it was ruined by pointless (and confusing) slow motion, and a dumb (inaccurate) commentary.
No matter how you looked at it, the programme was just as naff as I expected it to be. Sad truth is that TV people are incapable of producing anything worthwhile on any aviation subjects. Reason is simple - the producers of these programmes and the people who commission them know nothing about the subject, so they turn every programme into standard television fare - jeopardy, perceived (or manufactured) excitement, people/family stories, etc. They treat every subject in the same way because they're incapable of working in any other way.
It's remarkable that an iconic subject such as the Reds is handled so poorly. I guess it's just as remarkable that a lot of people sit-back and say "that was good" when it patently wasn't. License money wasted once again, and the Reds denied the kind of coverage that they deserve.
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Why so negative? Perhaps the AOC was in a grow bag because it is all about flying, he is a pilot and, while out there, flew with them. Indeed, despite being a chopper pilot, I gather he did quite well while gaining insight in the back seat of a synchro and enjoyed it enormously.
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Negative because what I saw and heard was rubbish. If it had been brilliant (pardon the pun) then I would happily say so. I don't understand your comments about the AOC though?
Think Rossian mentions a salient point - I've also flown a few displays with the Reds and I have told the guys to their faces that they are a victim of their own success - they make it look easy and as a result the public have no idea of how difficult their job is. Last night's show did nothing to change that in any way.
Think Rossian mentions a salient point - I've also flown a few displays with the Reds and I have told the guys to their faces that they are a victim of their own success - they make it look easy and as a result the public have no idea of how difficult their job is. Last night's show did nothing to change that in any way.
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"I don't understand your comments about the AOC though?"
I was replying to 1.3VSTALL's comment about the AOC in a grow bag, not to you WH904. I wouldn't want to reinforce your pessimism.
I was replying to 1.3VSTALL's comment about the AOC in a grow bag, not to you WH904. I wouldn't want to reinforce your pessimism.
