So it wasn't the "Hoorays" in Spitfires then ??
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The one that got away
At the time of the Battle of Britain in 1940 there was the famous incident
of a German pilot who had the RAF telephoned to send out a staff car to collect him and bring him back to their airfield.
Early that morning Luftwaffe Pilot - Ober/Lt Franz von Werra - posing
as the Dutch pilot of a crash landed Wellington had the RAF telephoned to send out a car to call and take him back to their airfield ! - where he got as far as sitting in the seat of the latest experimental Hurricane and about to start the engine before a revolver was pressed to his back.
Von Werra escaped two or three times and finally got back to Germany
via Canada the US and Sth America - Shot down and killed soon after.
The 1957 film ' The one that got away' - relates the fuller story.
of a German pilot who had the RAF telephoned to send out a staff car to collect him and bring him back to their airfield.
Early that morning Luftwaffe Pilot - Ober/Lt Franz von Werra - posing
as the Dutch pilot of a crash landed Wellington had the RAF telephoned to send out a car to call and take him back to their airfield ! - where he got as far as sitting in the seat of the latest experimental Hurricane and about to start the engine before a revolver was pressed to his back.
Von Werra escaped two or three times and finally got back to Germany
via Canada the US and Sth America - Shot down and killed soon after.
The 1957 film ' The one that got away' - relates the fuller story.
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Just to add a bit of historical information to this thread.
In 1966 I got a job with Ace Freighters at Coventry Airport.
Myself and another chap got accomodation in a wooden hut
complex that had been set up to provide a small individual room
for people that had been employed in Coventry during the War.
I suppose there were rooms for about 150 to 200 individuals
in the huts.
Of the remaining people that lived in the place there were some
40 to 50 Poles living there.
They were people that had obviously managed to escape from
Poland and had settled in the UK.
I used to feel quite sorry for them because, at that stage, they had
NO chance at all of getting back to Poland.
I often wonder what became of them after the collapse of Communism.
The place was called Chace Hostel, or something like that.
In 1966 I got a job with Ace Freighters at Coventry Airport.
Myself and another chap got accomodation in a wooden hut
complex that had been set up to provide a small individual room
for people that had been employed in Coventry during the War.
I suppose there were rooms for about 150 to 200 individuals
in the huts.
Of the remaining people that lived in the place there were some
40 to 50 Poles living there.
They were people that had obviously managed to escape from
Poland and had settled in the UK.
I used to feel quite sorry for them because, at that stage, they had
NO chance at all of getting back to Poland.
I often wonder what became of them after the collapse of Communism.
The place was called Chace Hostel, or something like that.
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The fact that the Polish (and Czech) servicemen were prohibited from participating in the Victory parades in '45 is outrageous. For those immensely brave and committed people to be cast aside like used rags is a bloody disgrace to Britain.
This afternoon I was researching an entirely unrelated matter in a lowland Scottish graveyard and my attention was drawn by a series of Polish/RAF gravestones.
RAF Grangemouth, the site of which now lies under a huge oil refinery and petrochem complex, was a Spitfire training airfield during WW2 (after the BoB) and hosted 58 OTU. The accident rate was truly horrendous. Almost a hundred fatal accidents in less than three years. Pilots from several countries were trained to fly Spitfires from there, but I've spent a bit of time this evening researching just a few of the Polish ones, in the spirit of this thread. The events being nearly 70 years ago, it is quite probable that there are no living people who remember these guys personally in daily life, so I think it's appropriate that a few words about each one of these 'few' be recorded here.
These guys died not by enemy action, but neverthess they had made a commitment in the knowledge that learning and exercising their chosen skill carried a significant probability that they may have to make the ultimate sacrifice in quite short order.
At the going down of the sun, etc, somebody ought to recognise them too.
Pilot Officer Malkiewicz and Sergeant Siemienczuk collided their Spitfires in the circuit on Friday the 17th of April 1942, near the outskirts of Falkirk. One aircraft crashed immediately, the other damaged aircraft attempted to land on the airfield, but the pilot of that one died in the ensuing crash. They are buried together. In Scotland it is very common practice for two or three coffins to be stacked upon eachother in a single grave where there has been an in vivo relationship, not necessarily familial though usually so.
Sergeant Szumski was killed in a Miles Master on Sunday the 22nd of November 1942 during an instrument exercise. He was observed to roll inverted at low level and strike the ground. His crewmate, who also perished, is not buried in this cemetery.
Sergeant Lukomski, who died on the following Tuesday, had been in a formation from which he was seen to break away while quite close to the airfield. He briefly entered a bit of stratus from which he emerged in a spin. He speared in just a couple of miles East of the 'field, just a couple of hundred metres North of the modern Polmont VRP at a spot which was subsequently quarried for aggregate and is currently being landfilled. You can see it immediately to the North and East of J4 of the M9 as you drive past.
Sergeant Samiec flew into a bing 1.5nm West of Winchburgh, West Lothian, in IMC on Tuesday the 4th of November 1941. His allotted training task was to strafe an inshore gunnery target, so it's difficult to see how he ended up where he did.
He shares a lair with Sergeant Szot who had collided with a fellow Grangemouth Spitfire over Dunfermline on Friday the 5th of June 1942. The other pilot successfully baled out.
I'm told that Koch may be a Jewish surname. To have been both Polish and Jewish must have been one hell of a motivational force for a young chap to fight the hard right Nasties in May 1941! Sadly, Sergeant Koch collided with a fellow Spitfire trainee during an echelon right formation practice on Friday the 15th of May 1941. The other pilot successfully made it back to Grangemouth. Koch did not, alive.
Sergeant Ostoja-Slonski, who died on Thursday the 30th of October the same year is co-buried with Koch. Slonski perished when he flew his Spitfire into a hillside near Peebles in marginal wx or IMC.
I bring these few case histories, brief as they are, to honour the many Polish people who were willing to risk their lives to fight for/with us in WW2. These 'few' now lie, not quite remembered yet not entirely forgotten, on a Scottish hillside adjacent to an unglamorous industrial town in lowland Scotland.
I commend their memory to the forum.
This afternoon I was researching an entirely unrelated matter in a lowland Scottish graveyard and my attention was drawn by a series of Polish/RAF gravestones.
RAF Grangemouth, the site of which now lies under a huge oil refinery and petrochem complex, was a Spitfire training airfield during WW2 (after the BoB) and hosted 58 OTU. The accident rate was truly horrendous. Almost a hundred fatal accidents in less than three years. Pilots from several countries were trained to fly Spitfires from there, but I've spent a bit of time this evening researching just a few of the Polish ones, in the spirit of this thread. The events being nearly 70 years ago, it is quite probable that there are no living people who remember these guys personally in daily life, so I think it's appropriate that a few words about each one of these 'few' be recorded here.
These guys died not by enemy action, but neverthess they had made a commitment in the knowledge that learning and exercising their chosen skill carried a significant probability that they may have to make the ultimate sacrifice in quite short order.
At the going down of the sun, etc, somebody ought to recognise them too.
Pilot Officer Malkiewicz and Sergeant Siemienczuk collided their Spitfires in the circuit on Friday the 17th of April 1942, near the outskirts of Falkirk. One aircraft crashed immediately, the other damaged aircraft attempted to land on the airfield, but the pilot of that one died in the ensuing crash. They are buried together. In Scotland it is very common practice for two or three coffins to be stacked upon eachother in a single grave where there has been an in vivo relationship, not necessarily familial though usually so.
Sergeant Szumski was killed in a Miles Master on Sunday the 22nd of November 1942 during an instrument exercise. He was observed to roll inverted at low level and strike the ground. His crewmate, who also perished, is not buried in this cemetery.
Sergeant Lukomski, who died on the following Tuesday, had been in a formation from which he was seen to break away while quite close to the airfield. He briefly entered a bit of stratus from which he emerged in a spin. He speared in just a couple of miles East of the 'field, just a couple of hundred metres North of the modern Polmont VRP at a spot which was subsequently quarried for aggregate and is currently being landfilled. You can see it immediately to the North and East of J4 of the M9 as you drive past.
Sergeant Samiec flew into a bing 1.5nm West of Winchburgh, West Lothian, in IMC on Tuesday the 4th of November 1941. His allotted training task was to strafe an inshore gunnery target, so it's difficult to see how he ended up where he did.
He shares a lair with Sergeant Szot who had collided with a fellow Grangemouth Spitfire over Dunfermline on Friday the 5th of June 1942. The other pilot successfully baled out.
I'm told that Koch may be a Jewish surname. To have been both Polish and Jewish must have been one hell of a motivational force for a young chap to fight the hard right Nasties in May 1941! Sadly, Sergeant Koch collided with a fellow Spitfire trainee during an echelon right formation practice on Friday the 15th of May 1941. The other pilot successfully made it back to Grangemouth. Koch did not, alive.
Sergeant Ostoja-Slonski, who died on Thursday the 30th of October the same year is co-buried with Koch. Slonski perished when he flew his Spitfire into a hillside near Peebles in marginal wx or IMC.
I bring these few case histories, brief as they are, to honour the many Polish people who were willing to risk their lives to fight for/with us in WW2. These 'few' now lie, not quite remembered yet not entirely forgotten, on a Scottish hillside adjacent to an unglamorous industrial town in lowland Scotland.
I commend their memory to the forum.
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I have a good friend who is as British as anyone, she happens to have had a Polish Dad and English Mum.
When someone at her appartments recently discovered her Polish surname ( she has a cut glass accent and went to a 'good' school ) she was spat at and told to ' go home'.
BTW her stepfather who she was close to was Robin Milne, Airspeed / D.H. Test Pilot who personally tested over 2,000 ( yes, 2,000 ! ) Oxfords and many other wartime & later aircraft.
Fortunately from what I understand the 'Polish clubs', at least in Bristol, are very friendly and supportive.
Like all the others, FAA, Kiwis, Americans, Dutch etc more ought to be done to thank them, not just the Brylcreem Boys, though that's nothing anti-RAF, just a public misconception; note the credits of the 'B of B' film do try to reflect their contribution.
If I ever had to fight, I think I'd be very glad to have Polish comrades.
Thankyou !
When someone at her appartments recently discovered her Polish surname ( she has a cut glass accent and went to a 'good' school ) she was spat at and told to ' go home'.
BTW her stepfather who she was close to was Robin Milne, Airspeed / D.H. Test Pilot who personally tested over 2,000 ( yes, 2,000 ! ) Oxfords and many other wartime & later aircraft.
Fortunately from what I understand the 'Polish clubs', at least in Bristol, are very friendly and supportive.
Like all the others, FAA, Kiwis, Americans, Dutch etc more ought to be done to thank them, not just the Brylcreem Boys, though that's nothing anti-RAF, just a public misconception; note the credits of the 'B of B' film do try to reflect their contribution.
If I ever had to fight, I think I'd be very glad to have Polish comrades.
Thankyou !
Last edited by Double Zero; 3rd Jul 2010 at 16:12.
At Sleap in the early '60s, one of the part-time instructors was Adam Wojda who, as far as I know, stayed behind after flying in the RAF in WWII.
He was my allocated instructor, although in those informal days you signed in to fly when you got to the airfield and flew in your turn when an aircraft and instructor became available, filling in the time doing useful things to keep the club running and flying.
This is my tribute to Adam, who taught me things I never forgot that were not in the syllabus but came from his experience and skill that he passed on so well. He was there reminding me to fly properly after I had a complete engine failure in cloud over the Italian mountains, some years later.
Sometimes he went too far, as in showing me how to make a beautifully square circuit by heaving up the nose at the corners, kicking the aircraft (Autocrat) over left or right as required and rolling out level on the new heading. An elementary stall turn, really. Great fun, and we did many touch-and-go circuits one day to perfect it. But even Adam couldn't get away with everything and he was grounded for 2 months after that.
The Polish people had and still have an independent spirit that survives all attempts to subdue it.
I should know; I am now a grandfather of a half-Polish bi-lingual 5-year old, who simply doesn't accept that "No" is sometimes the only option. And one day I'll show him how to fly really square circuits.......
He was my allocated instructor, although in those informal days you signed in to fly when you got to the airfield and flew in your turn when an aircraft and instructor became available, filling in the time doing useful things to keep the club running and flying.
This is my tribute to Adam, who taught me things I never forgot that were not in the syllabus but came from his experience and skill that he passed on so well. He was there reminding me to fly properly after I had a complete engine failure in cloud over the Italian mountains, some years later.
Sometimes he went too far, as in showing me how to make a beautifully square circuit by heaving up the nose at the corners, kicking the aircraft (Autocrat) over left or right as required and rolling out level on the new heading. An elementary stall turn, really. Great fun, and we did many touch-and-go circuits one day to perfect it. But even Adam couldn't get away with everything and he was grounded for 2 months after that.
The Polish people had and still have an independent spirit that survives all attempts to subdue it.
I should know; I am now a grandfather of a half-Polish bi-lingual 5-year old, who simply doesn't accept that "No" is sometimes the only option. And one day I'll show him how to fly really square circuits.......
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Someone I knew, many years ago, lived in a 'Polish resettlement Camp' near Amersham, in Bucks. He was the sole survivor of seven brothers who died in the war, but he escaped, and became a driver for the Polish Generals in the U.K. He told horrendous tales of life in Warsaw, and it was very easy to understand the hatred that the Poles had for the Germans, and why they became such ferocious fighters, not just in aeroplanes. His name was Bernard Zastempowski, just in case anyone remembers him [unlikely, but there is a large Polish community in Bucks]. I remember him, he was my Father-in Law, for I married his beautiful daughter Teresa, and we now live on the edge of what used to be RAF CHEDBURGH, Suffolk, home to Polish Lancaster and Halifax squadrons during the war.
Relevant to this thread is that The Times has just published the obituary of Sqn Ldr Gerald Stapleton, DFC, who shot down Oberleutnant Franz von Werra in his Me 109 (see post #21 above). Stapleton was one of the many South Africans who flew in the Battle, and was credited with six combat victories. He later commanded a Typhoon squadron after D Day, and was forced to crash land behind German lines after the debris from the steam locomotive he had just destroyed struck his aircraft!
(a bear of little brain)
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When I was working in London I used to know a woman whose first husband was a Polish pilot. He flew Lancasters operationally in the war then went onto flight testing after. I remeber her telling me about when he was based in Lancashire, flight testing Spitfires, she worked in an office on the seafront at Blackpool, on the top floor of the building. He often used to upset the office manager, flying in from the sea straight at the building and climbing over it at the last moment. I met t'Lad for a pint once when he was at IOT and mentioned that Hilda had 'an connection with the RAF - her first husband was a Polish Lancaster pilot in the war'. He started with an 'oh, yeah', expression but by the time I had finished the sentence he was sitting ramrod straight - I thought he was going to salute her.
And, JEM60, I used to know Chedburgh airfield well. We lived at Chevington for a while, a mate had the farm on it and we used to use it for car rally stages and autocrosses. I was actually misinformed though - I was always told it was a US base in the war - there was a bit of bare ground in Ickworth Park that was reputed to be where a P51 from the base had crashed.
And, JEM60, I used to know Chedburgh airfield well. We lived at Chevington for a while, a mate had the farm on it and we used to use it for car rally stages and autocrosses. I was actually misinformed though - I was always told it was a US base in the war - there was a bit of bare ground in Ickworth Park that was reputed to be where a P51 from the base had crashed.
How many remember the Alex Tarwid (the Red Baron) at Odiham.
Slightly off thead, SAS used to use 'donated' B17s on their passenger flights between Sweden and the United Kingdom.
Slightly off thead, SAS used to use 'donated' B17s on their passenger flights between Sweden and the United Kingdom.
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On the 21st June 1978 I was the SDO at Northolt when Flt Lt Jerzy (Joe) Kmiecick came into the Bar and announced that the next round was on him. As this was not a common occurrence someone asked him what the occasion was and the answer was the best one-liner I have ever heard :-
"Today is the 37th anniversary of my being sentenced to death by the Russians"
The morning after this sentence was passed the Germans attacked the USSR in the early hours and all the Camp Guards decamped leaving the prisoners to fend for themselves. Joe eventually reached Murmansk where he gained passage to UK. He always maintained that he joined the Army but got on the wrong Lorry on arrival in UK and thus became a Fighter Pilot.
"Today is the 37th anniversary of my being sentenced to death by the Russians"
The morning after this sentence was passed the Germans attacked the USSR in the early hours and all the Camp Guards decamped leaving the prisoners to fend for themselves. Joe eventually reached Murmansk where he gained passage to UK. He always maintained that he joined the Army but got on the wrong Lorry on arrival in UK and thus became a Fighter Pilot.
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JEM60. I know a bit about RAF Chedburgh. I lived in Chevington as well for about ten years. We used to have a few walks on the airfield from time to time and even helped put a small book together on it (I've got a copy in my hand now.) The RAF Chedburgh Memorial Trust was put together in 1991 to commerorate the opening of the station. Several events took place the following year, the largest being an opening day when the new village memorial to the station was dedicated in the pressence of Group Captain Ken Batchelor, the Trusts Patron and a former OC of the station (1943). A couple of Spitfires gave us a flypast on the day (the Lanc wasn't serviciable) and 2-300 veterens attended. Anglia TV were there as well. It was to put it mildly one hell of a day.
Operators at the station were as follows:-
215 Sq (3Gp). Stirlings. Oct 1942-Dec 1943.
620 Sq (3Gp). Stirlings. June 1943-Nov 1943 (made up from C Flights of 214 and 149)
1653 HCU. Stirlings. Nov 1943-Dec 1944.
218 Sq (3Gp). Lancasters. Dec 1944-Aug 1945.
301 Sq (46 Gp) Polish. Warwick 111c. Sept 1945.
304 Sq As above.
Both Sqs re-equiped with Halifax CV111's during Jan 1946 and were dispanded in December 1946. Polish personel moved to a resettlment camp at East Wretham afterthat.
RAF Chedburgh closed on 18th December 1946.
I'm wondering if the P51 that crashed was in fact a razor back P47 which was excavated about 20 years ago from the field on the other side of the A143. The engine was 18 feet down. Obviously the pilot did survive and proper permisions were sought.
Best Wishes, GA.
Operators at the station were as follows:-
215 Sq (3Gp). Stirlings. Oct 1942-Dec 1943.
620 Sq (3Gp). Stirlings. June 1943-Nov 1943 (made up from C Flights of 214 and 149)
1653 HCU. Stirlings. Nov 1943-Dec 1944.
218 Sq (3Gp). Lancasters. Dec 1944-Aug 1945.
301 Sq (46 Gp) Polish. Warwick 111c. Sept 1945.
304 Sq As above.
Both Sqs re-equiped with Halifax CV111's during Jan 1946 and were dispanded in December 1946. Polish personel moved to a resettlment camp at East Wretham afterthat.
RAF Chedburgh closed on 18th December 1946.
I'm wondering if the P51 that crashed was in fact a razor back P47 which was excavated about 20 years ago from the field on the other side of the A143. The engine was 18 feet down. Obviously the pilot did survive and proper permisions were sought.
Best Wishes, GA.
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Alex Tarwid
I was with "Jock"on 72 Squadron Wessex at RAF Odiham in the 60s and he was my boss in Oman 1974. I recently received confirmation that he is alive and well and living near Alton, Hants.
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Many Poles switched into ATC when their flying days in the postwar RAF were
over. I remember a Flt. Lt. Witold Suida, whom I first met in '53 on a RAF Winter Sports Association ski trip to Ehrwald, when we were both still flying.
He appeared again on my ATC Course at Shawbury in '55. Had a lovely red MG TF (?) 1500, which I greatly coveted (I was running a Bond "Minicar" !)
On 20 Sqn at Valley in '50 - '51, M/P Joe Halkiew dragged the target drogues around in our Beaufighter at Tonfanau. He shared this job wth a Czech M/P "Zed-Zed" Zmitrowicz.
And at Leeming ATC in late '60s we had a Flt. Lt. Jack Blocki (Blockey ?). Think he had the Polish Virtute Militare, but can't be sure. All fine chaps.
D.
over. I remember a Flt. Lt. Witold Suida, whom I first met in '53 on a RAF Winter Sports Association ski trip to Ehrwald, when we were both still flying.
He appeared again on my ATC Course at Shawbury in '55. Had a lovely red MG TF (?) 1500, which I greatly coveted (I was running a Bond "Minicar" !)
On 20 Sqn at Valley in '50 - '51, M/P Joe Halkiew dragged the target drogues around in our Beaufighter at Tonfanau. He shared this job wth a Czech M/P "Zed-Zed" Zmitrowicz.
And at Leeming ATC in late '60s we had a Flt. Lt. Jack Blocki (Blockey ?). Think he had the Polish Virtute Militare, but can't be sure. All fine chaps.
D.
Last edited by Danny42C; 30th Jul 2015 at 21:17. Reason: Addn.
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Wander00,
Might well have been at West Raynham (he had a background in fighters) but I don't know.
My impression was that he was a bachelor in '53 and '55 - as was I when on the ATC Course - (and the MG TF was hardly a married man's car !) I would have been 30 and 32 in those years, my impression was that he was a couple of years younger.
Assuming his son to be in the mid-fifties now, he would have been born around '60, so marriages after we left Shawbury (I married later in '55) would have fitted in quite nicely.
Sadly, we never met again after Shawbury, and I don't know which station he was posted to.
Not much help, but the best I can do,
Danny.
Might well have been at West Raynham (he had a background in fighters) but I don't know.
My impression was that he was a bachelor in '53 and '55 - as was I when on the ATC Course - (and the MG TF was hardly a married man's car !) I would have been 30 and 32 in those years, my impression was that he was a couple of years younger.
Assuming his son to be in the mid-fifties now, he would have been born around '60, so marriages after we left Shawbury (I married later in '55) would have fitted in quite nicely.
Sadly, we never met again after Shawbury, and I don't know which station he was posted to.
Not much help, but the best I can do,
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 31st Jul 2015 at 16:52. Reason: Typo.
Thanks Danny, I'll drop a fly on that particular pond
W
Update - done a bit of Googling and looks like the same guy. Am in pursuit..................
W
Update - done a bit of Googling and looks like the same guy. Am in pursuit..................
Last edited by Wander00; 31st Jul 2015 at 09:28. Reason: Update
Slightly off-thread.
When Shawbury staged a 'Taceval'* many years ago, the Survival Scramble was a joy to behold ... the gentlemen from Marshalls entered into the spirit of the exercise with body and soul!!! Aircrew were seen to leap out of crewroom windows and gallop across the ASP to their steeds (well JPs!) and strap in as they chased each other to the holding point and get airborne in a time that would have won applause from any QRA!!
It was obvious that for several ex Polish Air Force gentlemen the past few decades had fallen away and they, once again, gave it all they'd got ... inspiring
* Please don't confuse our efforts with the Tacevals in RAFG
When Shawbury staged a 'Taceval'* many years ago, the Survival Scramble was a joy to behold ... the gentlemen from Marshalls entered into the spirit of the exercise with body and soul!!! Aircrew were seen to leap out of crewroom windows and gallop across the ASP to their steeds (well JPs!) and strap in as they chased each other to the holding point and get airborne in a time that would have won applause from any QRA!!
It was obvious that for several ex Polish Air Force gentlemen the past few decades had fallen away and they, once again, gave it all they'd got ... inspiring
* Please don't confuse our efforts with the Tacevals in RAFG
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Fantom Zorbin,
The "Marshall's Gentlemen" of my day (mid fifties) were mainly ex-FAA. They said that it was the only job in aviation where all the paper work you needed to get in was an out-of-date driving licence !
They had Piston Provosts and Vampires, with which they tormented the GCA School studes at Sleap.
Danny.
The "Marshall's Gentlemen" of my day (mid fifties) were mainly ex-FAA. They said that it was the only job in aviation where all the paper work you needed to get in was an out-of-date driving licence !
They had Piston Provosts and Vampires, with which they tormented the GCA School studes at Sleap.
Danny.
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Without her permission, I would note that the OH was OC Admin at Northolt in the 80s [as a couple of people here know]. As such, amongst other random duties [such as VIP Greeting in the South Side Dispersal], she was deeply involved with the annual "Gathering of Elderly Polish Gentlemen" at the Polish War Memorial by the A40.
She related the encounters as, in essence, "Lovely old gentlemen, deeply moved and motivated, who also insisted on giving me flowers". I never had the opportunity to chaperone her on those occasions, or even join the pi$$-up in the Bar
Bless you guys/gals [who are left, and who have gone] from Poland and the other 'destroyed Nations' under Hitler and Stalin, who joined the common cause for freedom and democracy.
She related the encounters as, in essence, "Lovely old gentlemen, deeply moved and motivated, who also insisted on giving me flowers". I never had the opportunity to chaperone her on those occasions, or even join the pi$$-up in the Bar
Bless you guys/gals [who are left, and who have gone] from Poland and the other 'destroyed Nations' under Hitler and Stalin, who joined the common cause for freedom and democracy.