Pablo Mason loses unfair dismissal case
Pablo Mason loses unfair dismissal case
BBC NEWS | England | Pilot loses claim over footballer
"The panel heard the pilot had already been disciplined for gross misconduct after two separate incidents in 2006, including one in which he stripped to his underwear during an airport security check."
Blimey.
"The panel heard the pilot had already been disciplined for gross misconduct after two separate incidents in 2006, including one in which he stripped to his underwear during an airport security check."
Blimey.
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An Advert at the bottom of PPRuNe - Military
Now with no future in flying, I see that PM is advertising himself as an after dinner speaker!
Pablo Mason
Squadron Leader Pablo Mason is one of life's extraordinary characters and is full of amazing tales about his distinguished RAF career.
Pablo was among the 24 tornado crews detachment during the Gulf War. During Operation 'Desert Storm' Pablo Mason led his formation of four 15 Sqn. Tornados on 24 bombing missions over Iraq.
These included ultra-low level daylight mission, medium-level night bombing and the first ever Buccaneer/Tornado attack using laser-guided bombs which took place on the 2nd February 1991. During his first Gulf War mission his No. 2 was shot down and the crew (John Peters and John Nichol) became POWs. This was the attack on the Ar Rumaylah airfield and it was the first daylight Tornado attack of the war.
Pablo then flew for My Travel Lite and used to not just fly but also 'entertain' many passengers - the thank you letters from happy holidaymakers about they were in fits of laughter from his amazing tales made him one of the most popular pilots in the air!
Squadron Leader Pablo Mason is one of life's extraordinary characters and is full of amazing tales about his distinguished RAF career.
Pablo was among the 24 tornado crews detachment during the Gulf War. During Operation 'Desert Storm' Pablo Mason led his formation of four 15 Sqn. Tornados on 24 bombing missions over Iraq.
These included ultra-low level daylight mission, medium-level night bombing and the first ever Buccaneer/Tornado attack using laser-guided bombs which took place on the 2nd February 1991. During his first Gulf War mission his No. 2 was shot down and the crew (John Peters and John Nichol) became POWs. This was the attack on the Ar Rumaylah airfield and it was the first daylight Tornado attack of the war.
Pablo then flew for My Travel Lite and used to not just fly but also 'entertain' many passengers - the thank you letters from happy holidaymakers about they were in fits of laughter from his amazing tales made him one of the most popular pilots in the air!
Last edited by foldingwings; 25th Mar 2009 at 09:10.
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PM was in the LHS for our return flight from a Greek island about five years ago. A few pax were very late, and PM took it upon himself to talk, without drawing breath, for a good 15 mins on the PA. To be fair, he had the majority of the pax eating out of his hand, but I found myself reaching for the little white bag after about five minutes.
I very much got the impression that he likes an audience
I very much got the impression that he likes an audience
A 'colourful character' to be sure, but when I interviewed him, found that he was also one who was pretty brutally honest about his own shortcomings, while other XV Squadron folk who flew alongside him in Granby were complimentary.
I find the alacrity with which people who didn't know him (except by reputation) are queuing up to kick him when he's down, (and from behind the anonymity of a PPRuNe handle), pretty distasteful.
Perhaps worth remembering that he's a fellow aviator, and a man who put his 'nads on the line for his country in a real shooting war.
And whatever his weaknesses, those two things should entitle him to a little consideration and even respect.
I find the alacrity with which people who didn't know him (except by reputation) are queuing up to kick him when he's down, (and from behind the anonymity of a PPRuNe handle), pretty distasteful.
Perhaps worth remembering that he's a fellow aviator, and a man who put his 'nads on the line for his country in a real shooting war.
And whatever his weaknesses, those two things should entitle him to a little consideration and even respect.
I have never met PM and have no knowledge of his abilities, but I have to agree with Jackonicko on this, with regard to not kicking a man when he is down. At least he has never bored anyone to death, unlike another Gulf War veteran I could mention who has carved out a lucrative career as a spokesman on all matters aeronautical on the dubious basis of having been shot down by the Iraqis. No names.... etc, etc
It was exactly the stream of people queuing up to kick Pablo on R&N (rather than this thread) that prompted my post, Foldy.
Very few of them know him. Even fewer have flown alongside him. Yet fewer have done as he did. (Yourself quite clearly excluded).
None of them have made their 'contribution' to his character assassination openly, and all (yourself included) have chosen to snipe from behind the anonymity of a PPRuNe username.
It's really not very elevating, is it?
And saying so is something less than sanctimony.
As to claiming single-handed responsibility for victory, Pablo's most famous utterance was surely that he was terrified, and when I spoke to him, he was at pains to underline his part as being that of a small cog in a bigger machine. It's not as though he was a complete braggart in the mould of 'Sardiney' Ward, who chose to undermine and belittle the efforts of everyone else!
I had a good friend who did fly another XV Squadron jet in the same conflict (Bob B), and he was gracious about Pablo's contribution, as were a number of other former XV Squadron aircrew.
But I'm not concerned as to Pablo's flying or leadership qualities, nor as to his character. I'm not for one moment arguing that he was a great RAF FJ pilot, nor even a great example of an RAF officer, nor that he was a model employee for his airline.
My opinion is that he was "none of the above" (and that he was an average, at best, Tornado pilot, who did his imperfect best for his squadron, his service and his country) - though as such he was still a better man than I, and a better man than many of his critics - as the fact that he earned a hard-won place in an RAF FJ cockpit at all clearly demonstrates.
Though you, as a Tornado pilot yourself, might quite rightly and quite reasonably view him rather differently.
I do question the need to kick him when he's down, and I do wonder at the character of those who were his former comrades in arms, or who are his fellow aviators, and who choose to do so in quite such a sneaky and underhand manner.
And much the same goes for any 'behind the hand' sniggering about John N*****. Whether a 'switch pigs' was responsible for his fate in Iraq is immaterial, in my view, and regardless of whether it's his vanity or the incompetence of slack-witted journos and editors that have led to the occasional misapprehension that he was a pilot, rather than a Nav.
If you're going to criticise a fellow aviator by name (or so explicitely that even my mum would know who you're talking about - and she's been dead 24 years) then I think that one should probably have the 'nads to do so openly.
As a serving 'mud', and as a former squadron mate of Pablo and John N, you have more right than anyone to comment, and more authority. That makes you close to unique among his PPRuNe detractors, however!
I make no pretence to having anything like your expertise or experience that would qualify me to contribute equally to the debate. I have no wish to get embroiled in an argument with you, and would underline that I have absolutely no right or wish to criticise you, personally.
But I do deplore the overall campaign of anonymous Joes lining up to give Pablo a swift kicking while he's down.
It doesn't seem very British, and it's certainly not the sort of behaviour one expects from RAF officers or professional aviators.
Very few of them know him. Even fewer have flown alongside him. Yet fewer have done as he did. (Yourself quite clearly excluded).
None of them have made their 'contribution' to his character assassination openly, and all (yourself included) have chosen to snipe from behind the anonymity of a PPRuNe username.
It's really not very elevating, is it?
And saying so is something less than sanctimony.
As to claiming single-handed responsibility for victory, Pablo's most famous utterance was surely that he was terrified, and when I spoke to him, he was at pains to underline his part as being that of a small cog in a bigger machine. It's not as though he was a complete braggart in the mould of 'Sardiney' Ward, who chose to undermine and belittle the efforts of everyone else!
I had a good friend who did fly another XV Squadron jet in the same conflict (Bob B), and he was gracious about Pablo's contribution, as were a number of other former XV Squadron aircrew.
But I'm not concerned as to Pablo's flying or leadership qualities, nor as to his character. I'm not for one moment arguing that he was a great RAF FJ pilot, nor even a great example of an RAF officer, nor that he was a model employee for his airline.
My opinion is that he was "none of the above" (and that he was an average, at best, Tornado pilot, who did his imperfect best for his squadron, his service and his country) - though as such he was still a better man than I, and a better man than many of his critics - as the fact that he earned a hard-won place in an RAF FJ cockpit at all clearly demonstrates.
Though you, as a Tornado pilot yourself, might quite rightly and quite reasonably view him rather differently.
I do question the need to kick him when he's down, and I do wonder at the character of those who were his former comrades in arms, or who are his fellow aviators, and who choose to do so in quite such a sneaky and underhand manner.
And much the same goes for any 'behind the hand' sniggering about John N*****. Whether a 'switch pigs' was responsible for his fate in Iraq is immaterial, in my view, and regardless of whether it's his vanity or the incompetence of slack-witted journos and editors that have led to the occasional misapprehension that he was a pilot, rather than a Nav.
If you're going to criticise a fellow aviator by name (or so explicitely that even my mum would know who you're talking about - and she's been dead 24 years) then I think that one should probably have the 'nads to do so openly.
As a serving 'mud', and as a former squadron mate of Pablo and John N, you have more right than anyone to comment, and more authority. That makes you close to unique among his PPRuNe detractors, however!
I make no pretence to having anything like your expertise or experience that would qualify me to contribute equally to the debate. I have no wish to get embroiled in an argument with you, and would underline that I have absolutely no right or wish to criticise you, personally.
But I do deplore the overall campaign of anonymous Joes lining up to give Pablo a swift kicking while he's down.
It doesn't seem very British, and it's certainly not the sort of behaviour one expects from RAF officers or professional aviators.
Avoid imitations
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Jacko, your last sentence says it all. The only reason I can think that anyone should decry another pilot on here is perhaps to bolster their own feelings of inadequacy.
P.S. Folding wings, "Helo" is a Navy term. PM was a "Heli" pilot, at least he was thirty years ago when I served on the same station.
P.S. Folding wings, "Helo" is a Navy term. PM was a "Heli" pilot, at least he was thirty years ago when I served on the same station.
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I fully concur with what, my good, friend Foldie states about the enigma that was and is Pablo the stick monkey.
I knew him when he was on XV prior to GW 1 and I was on a Mineval/Maxeval inspection as an evaluator. Pablo decided that it would be a good idea to try and put me off my stroke by trying to sell me a car. He is, quite bluntly, and I would tell him to his face, a narcascistic buffoon who needs to grow up!
Lots of us did equally good and brave things in GW1 but without the need to self agrondise or publish books about our efforts. Pablo and John Peters/Nicholl have, for over 17 years, held the record for the most number of hollow words printed for any FJ pair in history.
One might gather from that that I don't have much of a liking for people of the ilk of Mason and Peters/Nicholl (the switch pigs f**k up monkey).
Sue me if you dare you three chimps
3P
I knew him when he was on XV prior to GW 1 and I was on a Mineval/Maxeval inspection as an evaluator. Pablo decided that it would be a good idea to try and put me off my stroke by trying to sell me a car. He is, quite bluntly, and I would tell him to his face, a narcascistic buffoon who needs to grow up!
Lots of us did equally good and brave things in GW1 but without the need to self agrondise or publish books about our efforts. Pablo and John Peters/Nicholl have, for over 17 years, held the record for the most number of hollow words printed for any FJ pair in history.
One might gather from that that I don't have much of a liking for people of the ilk of Mason and Peters/Nicholl (the switch pigs f**k up monkey).
Sue me if you dare you three chimps
3P
If you like, you can sum him up in 7 paragraphs as Jacko did.
I can sum him up in 7 words...
Rule breaking, self centred, egotistical f*cking prick.
It doesn't need any more than that.
I can sum him up in 7 words...
Rule breaking, self centred, egotistical f*cking prick.
It doesn't need any more than that.
Threeputt,
Of course many people were better and braver than Pablo and the two Johns (people who did not merely do "equally good and brave things", but who did better and braver things), and some paid a much heavier price.
I can sympathise better than most when the less deserving (but more assiduously publicity seeking) take a disproportionate share of the glory.
And I'd entirely understand (and even approve of) eyebrows being raised in exasperation, and questions being raised in private conversation, or even in scurrilous happy hour or crew room banter.
But I simply don't see any virtue in, or need for, public denunciation by anonymous detractors.
You might be happy to "tell him to his face" that he is "a narcascistic buffoon who needs to grow up!" You're probably right, and I daresay you'd find widespread agreement, perhaps from the most unlikely quarters!
But you did not. 'Threeputt' and others chose to do so anonymously, on PPRuNe.
Again, it ill behoves an amateur pilot, an amateurish journo and a failed FJ wannabe to question someone with your achievements and of your stature, or of Foldy's experience and expertise, and I hope that you will forgive me for doing so.
Of course many people were better and braver than Pablo and the two Johns (people who did not merely do "equally good and brave things", but who did better and braver things), and some paid a much heavier price.
I can sympathise better than most when the less deserving (but more assiduously publicity seeking) take a disproportionate share of the glory.
And I'd entirely understand (and even approve of) eyebrows being raised in exasperation, and questions being raised in private conversation, or even in scurrilous happy hour or crew room banter.
But I simply don't see any virtue in, or need for, public denunciation by anonymous detractors.
You might be happy to "tell him to his face" that he is "a narcascistic buffoon who needs to grow up!" You're probably right, and I daresay you'd find widespread agreement, perhaps from the most unlikely quarters!
But you did not. 'Threeputt' and others chose to do so anonymously, on PPRuNe.
Again, it ill behoves an amateur pilot, an amateurish journo and a failed FJ wannabe to question someone with your achievements and of your stature, or of Foldy's experience and expertise, and I hope that you will forgive me for doing so.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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I do question the need to kick him when he's down,
Oh agreed Jacko!
They should all jump to protect him, you know, the way he tried to protect his FO at the tribunal!
Jacko
So what is your full name and where do you work?
People are not giving him a good kicking, they are telling the truth as they see it. There are hundreds of folk on the R+N thread who have no idea who Paul is but are stating how great he is how marvelous, the best pilot in the world blah blah blah, and people that know him are fed up with it. Pablo was a Bud Holland in waiting. Colourful yes, charismatic yes but stop there. At his tribunal he questioned why his First Officer was not punished!!! Now that is certainly not behaviour becoming of an Officer. Pablo, I am sure does not care one jot about the 'kicking' he is getting. It all adds to the publicity and it will all sell loads of copies of his next book
So what is your full name and where do you work?
People are not giving him a good kicking, they are telling the truth as they see it. There are hundreds of folk on the R+N thread who have no idea who Paul is but are stating how great he is how marvelous, the best pilot in the world blah blah blah, and people that know him are fed up with it. Pablo was a Bud Holland in waiting. Colourful yes, charismatic yes but stop there. At his tribunal he questioned why his First Officer was not punished!!! Now that is certainly not behaviour becoming of an Officer. Pablo, I am sure does not care one jot about the 'kicking' he is getting. It all adds to the publicity and it will all sell loads of copies of his next book
Jacko, you are absolutely right, in my view.
Too often these days do PPRuNe posts exceed the banter and mutual pi$$-taking limit and descend into mean-spirited personal abuse.
For whatever faults he might have had in military life (I only knew him when he was doing his FJ cross-over training), Paul obviously brightened up the boring world of the chav-stuffed people-tubes.
Another Bud Holland? No, not really.
It does sound like it was rather a case of 'strike three' for him with his footballer-on-the-flight deck incident.
If he cheers up a few folk in this depressing, totalitarian world of Brave nuLabor with his after dinner talks, then good luck to him.
Too often these days do PPRuNe posts exceed the banter and mutual pi$$-taking limit and descend into mean-spirited personal abuse.
For whatever faults he might have had in military life (I only knew him when he was doing his FJ cross-over training), Paul obviously brightened up the boring world of the chav-stuffed people-tubes.
Another Bud Holland? No, not really.
It does sound like it was rather a case of 'strike three' for him with his footballer-on-the-flight deck incident.
If he cheers up a few folk in this depressing, totalitarian world of Brave nuLabor with his after dinner talks, then good luck to him.
Gentlemen, the essential point in the whole argument is being overlooked. Did Pablo endanger the aircraft? Of course not. There was nothing intrinsically unsafe in his decision to allow the passenger on the flight deck.
What is being lost these days is basic appreciation of risk. I am ex RAF and have flown for a few charter airlines. Many of these companies are more than happy to pressure Captains to take commercially favourable decisions - such as pushing flight time limitiations to the limits - which have a dubious impact on flight safety.
Pablo's decision was politically risky and most of us would not have taken that risk - because we know how vindictive some companies can be. I doubt that the airline were in anyway considering that the flight had been endangered. More likely they just didn't want a 'character' kicking round the system
To survive an airline career you need to be the grey man these days. When you end your career you aim to have only three letters on file: Offer of employment, confirmation of command course and confirmation of leaving date. That's a tough call for anyone with a bit of excess personality.
Pablo did not do anything basically wrong other than being a bit naive about a politically sensitive ruling. However, he's thrown a bit of light on a system of rules that is now so rigid that normal and reasonable behaviour is sanctioned.
Remember, the Captain does have the final say in matters of safety. That's a two way street in today's commercial aviation.
Before anyone launches into a pilot who falls foul of the system just remember that pilots are in a highly vulnerable situation these days. It's possible to be a reliable and safe operator but come unstuck due to a mild clash with company culture. I have seen it many times and it's a common reason for changing employer in the airline world. The only difference is that Pablo has a public profile.
What is being lost these days is basic appreciation of risk. I am ex RAF and have flown for a few charter airlines. Many of these companies are more than happy to pressure Captains to take commercially favourable decisions - such as pushing flight time limitiations to the limits - which have a dubious impact on flight safety.
Pablo's decision was politically risky and most of us would not have taken that risk - because we know how vindictive some companies can be. I doubt that the airline were in anyway considering that the flight had been endangered. More likely they just didn't want a 'character' kicking round the system
To survive an airline career you need to be the grey man these days. When you end your career you aim to have only three letters on file: Offer of employment, confirmation of command course and confirmation of leaving date. That's a tough call for anyone with a bit of excess personality.
Pablo did not do anything basically wrong other than being a bit naive about a politically sensitive ruling. However, he's thrown a bit of light on a system of rules that is now so rigid that normal and reasonable behaviour is sanctioned.
Remember, the Captain does have the final say in matters of safety. That's a two way street in today's commercial aviation.
Before anyone launches into a pilot who falls foul of the system just remember that pilots are in a highly vulnerable situation these days. It's possible to be a reliable and safe operator but come unstuck due to a mild clash with company culture. I have seen it many times and it's a common reason for changing employer in the airline world. The only difference is that Pablo has a public profile.
Last edited by Wig Wag; 22nd Mar 2009 at 10:27.
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Again, it ill behoves an amateur pilot, an amateurish journo and a failed FJ wannabe to question someone with your achievements and of your stature, or of Foldy's experience and expertise, and I hope that you will forgive me for doing so.
As for hiding behind anonymity, this is PPRune, and I find it somewhat bemusing, not to say hypocritical of some, that this line is being deployed on this thread, whereas on others, (eg, the Scottish Gp Capt), it is, and was, fair game.
PS: Don't have an issue with the anonymity thing, just the consistency bit.
Last edited by jindabyne; 22nd Mar 2009 at 10:32.