Missing Lad from HMS Westminster - Wife kicked out of MQs
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Missing Lad from HMS Westminster - Wife kicked out of MQs
I apologise for posting this and I appreciate that it is nothing to do with Military Aviation. However I am so angry, I just feel that this deserves attention if it is true.
As many of you will recall a married man serving on HMS Westminster disappeared after a night out in Dubai in May of this year. The ship returned to the UK, without the lad in August:
BBC News - Timmy MacColl: HMS Westminster returns to Portsmouth
I have just been told, by a friend who serves on Westminster, that his wife and three kids have been kicked out of married quarters.
If this is true it is horrific and despicable action by the Mod/Navy and I cannot believe that the press have not picked up on it.
It has not even been 6 months since he disappeared and only several weeks since the ship returned.
Sorry, but I am fuming if it is true and I felt that it should be mentioned here, especially as there is a number of Navy personnel who post here.
As many of you will recall a married man serving on HMS Westminster disappeared after a night out in Dubai in May of this year. The ship returned to the UK, without the lad in August:
BBC News - Timmy MacColl: HMS Westminster returns to Portsmouth
I have just been told, by a friend who serves on Westminster, that his wife and three kids have been kicked out of married quarters.
If this is true it is horrific and despicable action by the Mod/Navy and I cannot believe that the press have not picked up on it.
It has not even been 6 months since he disappeared and only several weeks since the ship returned.
Sorry, but I am fuming if it is true and I felt that it should be mentioned here, especially as there is a number of Navy personnel who post here.
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This is, and always has been, normal procedure. The licence to occupy service accommodation lapses if the military husband dies and the family have to make alternative civilian arrangements after a period of grace. Sad but necessary to free up limited service accommodation at a station for those fully entitled.
Of course a storm can easily be whipped up among the impressionable by using emotive language like "kicked out", which is, of course, SOP for journos.
Sad and a fact of service life, but in no way horrific or despicable.
Of course a storm can easily be whipped up among the impressionable by using emotive language like "kicked out", which is, of course, SOP for journos.
Sad and a fact of service life, but in no way horrific or despicable.
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Well I am sorry but I disagree. As far as I am concerned it is a despicable act. It is not known if he is dead (although, sadly I would agree he probably is).
6 months is no time at all and if it is happening to the wives/partners of those killed in Afgan (or previously in Iraq) then it is wrong.
After 30 years in the RAF, I knew quite a few people over the years that were killed because of one reason or another and I did not know of any wife that was even asked to vacate their MQ. They left when they were ready and received all the support they needed.
I also knew many individuals who left the RAF, became unemployed, but managed to keep their MQs because they had nowhere to go! Not sure I agreed with that one!!!
By the way “kicked out” was the term used by the lad of HMS Westminster and the whole crew are absolutely sick with the decision.
To be quite frank the two comments above are heartless and so typical. The wife and three kids are in pieces and there should be plenty of support for them, not a bloody rule book.
6 months is no time at all and if it is happening to the wives/partners of those killed in Afgan (or previously in Iraq) then it is wrong.
After 30 years in the RAF, I knew quite a few people over the years that were killed because of one reason or another and I did not know of any wife that was even asked to vacate their MQ. They left when they were ready and received all the support they needed.
I also knew many individuals who left the RAF, became unemployed, but managed to keep their MQs because they had nowhere to go! Not sure I agreed with that one!!!
By the way “kicked out” was the term used by the lad of HMS Westminster and the whole crew are absolutely sick with the decision.
To be quite frank the two comments above are heartless and so typical. The wife and three kids are in pieces and there should be plenty of support for them, not a bloody rule book.
Missing Lad from HMS Westminster - Wife kicked out of MQs
I thought there was a two year period of grace to reintegrate into civilian life?
I may well be wrong.
BV
I may well be wrong.
BV
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Well after 34 years in the Army I have known a great many that were killed and to whose families this ruling was applied. Also within the RAF to personnel on my son's unit. You must have led a very sheltered service life.
My comment was not heartless and I'm not sure what you consider it typical of. The rule book is practical, necessary and realistic. The families are not thrown out onto the streets. There is a comprehensive care and support structure which kicks in. It is sad, but necessary.
Get your facts correct and save your righteous indignation for a target that merits it.
My comment was not heartless and I'm not sure what you consider it typical of. The rule book is practical, necessary and realistic. The families are not thrown out onto the streets. There is a comprehensive care and support structure which kicks in. It is sad, but necessary.
Get your facts correct and save your righteous indignation for a target that merits it.
Last edited by Genstabler; 21st Oct 2012 at 15:48.
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Notice to Vacate
I've dim memories from Scribbly school and the office simulator phase that go something like this....
Whilst units can be very understanding in situations of almost unbelievable distress, they have to serve a Notice to Vacate after a standard period (looks about right here).
However, the spouse/widow becomes an "irregular occupant" and moves to a rent closer to social housing costs. Thereafter, it was determined by the situation, passage of time, waiting list situation and payment record how it proceeds
Any ex-Scribblies with a better memory?
If SSAFA is involved then I'm sure the family is being supported...
Whilst units can be very understanding in situations of almost unbelievable distress, they have to serve a Notice to Vacate after a standard period (looks about right here).
However, the spouse/widow becomes an "irregular occupant" and moves to a rent closer to social housing costs. Thereafter, it was determined by the situation, passage of time, waiting list situation and payment record how it proceeds
Any ex-Scribblies with a better memory?
If SSAFA is involved then I'm sure the family is being supported...
"Notice to Vacate" - is a legal necessity that actually HELPS the families get council supported accommodation.
It is a legal notice that eviction will follow - and so the family WILL become homeless, this forces the council to take action. Without it the council simply say "they have a home, not interested"
So... far from being "kicked out".. an effort to ensure long term housing is available is taking place.
Unfortunately the truth does not make such clever headlines ... all aboard the outrage bus ... lets sell some newspapers regardless of the truth ...
It is a legal notice that eviction will follow - and so the family WILL become homeless, this forces the council to take action. Without it the council simply say "they have a home, not interested"
So... far from being "kicked out".. an effort to ensure long term housing is available is taking place.
Unfortunately the truth does not make such clever headlines ... all aboard the outrage bus ... lets sell some newspapers regardless of the truth ...
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Genstabler and all
I really do not want to get into an argument over something as tragic as this story.
But, I was just trying to highlight something that I feel is wrong, very wrong.
As I said earlier the man has not been confirmed as dead and it was only a few weeks ago that his Captain said "Our thoughts and prayers remain with his family."
As for:
Following a recent suicide of a member of the Armed Forces here in South Wales and an investigation into the support given to seriously injured servicemen and families of servicemen killed there is still along way to go to provide the support they need.
If you wish to slate me off for showing support for the family of a serviceman who I feel has been treated wrongly, then that is your right. And yes there is a degree of emotion; I know the lad that told me very well indeed and he and the crew of HMS Westminster feel sick and helpless over what has happened. He is a serving member and I used to be. I feel his pain….is that wrong?
But as you all say "The rules are the rules"
Just a shame that other incidents of far less hurt and pain, but normally of a politically correct nature, make the headlines and action happens.
PS, I can assure you my career was not sheltered
I really do not want to get into an argument over something as tragic as this story.
But, I was just trying to highlight something that I feel is wrong, very wrong.
As I said earlier the man has not been confirmed as dead and it was only a few weeks ago that his Captain said "Our thoughts and prayers remain with his family."
As for:
There is a comprehensive care and support structure which kicks in.
If you wish to slate me off for showing support for the family of a serviceman who I feel has been treated wrongly, then that is your right. And yes there is a degree of emotion; I know the lad that told me very well indeed and he and the crew of HMS Westminster feel sick and helpless over what has happened. He is a serving member and I used to be. I feel his pain….is that wrong?
But as you all say "The rules are the rules"
Just a shame that other incidents of far less hurt and pain, but normally of a politically correct nature, make the headlines and action happens.
PS, I can assure you my career was not sheltered
This is, and always has been, normal procedure. The licence to occupy service accommodation lapses if the military husband dies and the family have to make alternative civilian arrangements after a period of grace. Sad but necessary to free up limited service accommodation at a station for those fully entitled.
Of course a storm can easily be whipped up among the impressionable by using emotive language like "kicked out", which is, of course, SOP for journos.
Sad and a fact of service life, but in no way horrific or despicable.
Of course a storm can easily be whipped up among the impressionable by using emotive language like "kicked out", which is, of course, SOP for journos.
Sad and a fact of service life, but in no way horrific or despicable.
Even the 6 months has not elapsed, and it would be wrong to issue a notice ending the Licence before the review can have taken place.
Your assumption that the sailor has been declared dead appears to be wrong. Without knowing anything about the case other than what has appeared in the media, I wonder if in fact he has been formally declared AWOL.
PS Bob Viking mentioned a two year period of grace. I agree, up to two years.
The version of the Licence I am looking at provides for a minimum of six months until the first review, with further reviews at 3 monthly intervals thereafter up to a total period of 2 years, with 93 days notice to follow a decision to terminate as a result of any of the 3 monthly reviews.
The version of the Licence I am looking at provides for a minimum of six months until the first review, with further reviews at 3 monthly intervals thereafter up to a total period of 2 years, with 93 days notice to follow a decision to terminate as a result of any of the 3 monthly reviews.
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http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/3C09C...art1.pdf#page1
REVISED POLICY FOR THE OCCUPATION OF SFA BY BEREAVED SPOUSE/CIVIL PARTNERS FOLLOWING THE DEATH IN SERVICE OF THE SERVICE LICENSEE
PURPOSE
1. The purpose of this policy statement is to lay down guidelines for the occupation of SFA by bereaved spouse/civil partners and their families following the death in Service of the Service Licensee. The policy seeks to recognise that bereaved spouse/civil partners should have continued entitlement to SFA for a reasonable period to assist them in coming to terms with their bereavement but, ultimately, that the policy should assist bereaved spouse/civil partners in transitioning out of SFA and integrating back into the civilian community. In view of the sensitivity of the issue, this policy has been endorsed at Ministerial level.12
UK
2. Following a death in service of the Service Licensee, the bereaved spouse/civil partner should be offered an entitlement to stay in their SFA/SSFA for a 2 year period to enable them to determine their longer term housing requirements. Retention of SFA may be extended beyond the 2 year period at the discretion of the Local Service Commander in consultation with the respective welfare, medical and educational authorities and DE Ops Housing. The bereaved spouse/civil partner will pay entitled SFA charges for the Type and Grade of SFA occupied (which may be liable to change as a result of a 4 Tier Grading Board and/or the annual AFPRB round). CILOCT charges may be abated by 25% for single occupancy. The bill for SFA charges for the first 3 months should be passed to the bereaved spouse via the Visiting Officer.
3. If during the period of entitlement DE Ops Housing requires the SFA occupied by the bereaved spouse/civil partner for upgrade or disposal purposes, or the lease is terminated on SSFA, it would be appropriate for the bereaved spouse/civil partner to be provided with alternative SFA/SSFA of a similar type at the same location. In these circumstances the bereaved spouse/civil partner would be entitled to relocation at public expense, consisting of furniture removal expenses and the appropriate rate of Disturbance Allowance.
4. If during the period of entitlement the bereaved spouse/civil partner indicates that they wish to move closer to the home of an immediate member of their family or their child’s school, the bereaved spouse/civil partner is entitled to one relocation at public expense within 12 months of the date of bereavement, consisting of furniture removal expenses and the appropriate rate of Disturbance Allowance. The 12 month period may be extended at the discretion of the Local Service Commander in consultation with the respective welfare, medical and educational authorities and DE Ops Housing. DE Ops Housing is to provide the bereaved spouse/civil partner with SFA/SSFA within a radius of up to 50 miles of their family member or their child’s school and continued occupation of that SFA at entitled rates. DE Ops Housing is to deal with each application on case by case basis and subject to the availability of housing always attempt to provide SFA/SSFA as close as possible to the preferred location.
Etc etc
REVISED POLICY FOR THE OCCUPATION OF SFA BY BEREAVED SPOUSE/CIVIL PARTNERS FOLLOWING THE DEATH IN SERVICE OF THE SERVICE LICENSEE
PURPOSE
1. The purpose of this policy statement is to lay down guidelines for the occupation of SFA by bereaved spouse/civil partners and their families following the death in Service of the Service Licensee. The policy seeks to recognise that bereaved spouse/civil partners should have continued entitlement to SFA for a reasonable period to assist them in coming to terms with their bereavement but, ultimately, that the policy should assist bereaved spouse/civil partners in transitioning out of SFA and integrating back into the civilian community. In view of the sensitivity of the issue, this policy has been endorsed at Ministerial level.12
UK
2. Following a death in service of the Service Licensee, the bereaved spouse/civil partner should be offered an entitlement to stay in their SFA/SSFA for a 2 year period to enable them to determine their longer term housing requirements. Retention of SFA may be extended beyond the 2 year period at the discretion of the Local Service Commander in consultation with the respective welfare, medical and educational authorities and DE Ops Housing. The bereaved spouse/civil partner will pay entitled SFA charges for the Type and Grade of SFA occupied (which may be liable to change as a result of a 4 Tier Grading Board and/or the annual AFPRB round). CILOCT charges may be abated by 25% for single occupancy. The bill for SFA charges for the first 3 months should be passed to the bereaved spouse via the Visiting Officer.
3. If during the period of entitlement DE Ops Housing requires the SFA occupied by the bereaved spouse/civil partner for upgrade or disposal purposes, or the lease is terminated on SSFA, it would be appropriate for the bereaved spouse/civil partner to be provided with alternative SFA/SSFA of a similar type at the same location. In these circumstances the bereaved spouse/civil partner would be entitled to relocation at public expense, consisting of furniture removal expenses and the appropriate rate of Disturbance Allowance.
4. If during the period of entitlement the bereaved spouse/civil partner indicates that they wish to move closer to the home of an immediate member of their family or their child’s school, the bereaved spouse/civil partner is entitled to one relocation at public expense within 12 months of the date of bereavement, consisting of furniture removal expenses and the appropriate rate of Disturbance Allowance. The 12 month period may be extended at the discretion of the Local Service Commander in consultation with the respective welfare, medical and educational authorities and DE Ops Housing. DE Ops Housing is to provide the bereaved spouse/civil partner with SFA/SSFA within a radius of up to 50 miles of their family member or their child’s school and continued occupation of that SFA at entitled rates. DE Ops Housing is to deal with each application on case by case basis and subject to the availability of housing always attempt to provide SFA/SSFA as close as possible to the preferred location.
Etc etc
Last edited by lj101; 21st Oct 2012 at 16:10.
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This is, and always has been, normal procedure
I certainly had real and practical experience of it during my 30 (sheltered) years.
Last edited by SRENNAPS; 21st Oct 2012 at 16:28.
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This is, and always has been, normal procedure.
The period of grace has been extended. It used to be 6 months. The JSP revision dated 2010 seems generously to have extended this considerably.
The "notice of eviction" is an emotive term for an essential instrument to justify immediate entitlement to civilian social housing and benefits in the location chosen by the bereaved family. They can now stay in MQs for two years or more if that is their choice, but when they wish to move they require the eviction notice. This can be, and frequently is, misinterpreted and misrepresented by those who do not understand the system and by those wishing to trash it and generate outrage. Bereaved families are not kicked out.
The period of grace has been extended. It used to be 6 months. The JSP revision dated 2010 seems generously to have extended this considerably.
The "notice of eviction" is an emotive term for an essential instrument to justify immediate entitlement to civilian social housing and benefits in the location chosen by the bereaved family. They can now stay in MQs for two years or more if that is their choice, but when they wish to move they require the eviction notice. This can be, and frequently is, misinterpreted and misrepresented by those who do not understand the system and by those wishing to trash it and generate outrage. Bereaved families are not kicked out.