Syria starts
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...what, than the current one which funds, trains and provides shelter for elements of Hamas? I'll also point out the more [relatively] democratic models of Egypt and Jordan who manage to be friendly with Israel.
IMO the danger is an Iranian-style hijacking of the country by fundamentalist nutcases - and Syria and Iran are very friendly - which could easily whip-up anti-Israel sentiment Hitler 1930s-style.
The difference between what we have now in Syria and what could come is Syria presently wants to stay a member of the world community; get some sort of Ahmedinajad/Chavez/Kim Jong-Il in character and it could get awkward, esp. as Iran has been giving Syria missile and possibly nuke technology.
IMO the danger is an Iranian-style hijacking of the country by fundamentalist nutcases - and Syria and Iran are very friendly - which could easily whip-up anti-Israel sentiment Hitler 1930s-style.
The difference between what we have now in Syria and what could come is Syria presently wants to stay a member of the world community; get some sort of Ahmedinajad/Chavez/Kim Jong-Il in character and it could get awkward, esp. as Iran has been giving Syria missile and possibly nuke technology.
the more [relatively] democratic models of Egypt
Egypt was friendly to Israel when it was a dictatorship, bought off with trillions of dollars of US aid. It is far from clear whether that utopia is going to continue, now that the populace can (so far) freely express themselves. One of the first results of the fall of Mubarak was the withdrawal of the Gaza blockade - a blockade which was as unpopular with Egyptians as it was with Gazan Palestinians.
A truly democratic Egypt is likely to be (with good reason) far more hostile to Israel than the former Egypt subjugated by a dictatorship bought off by US aid. Similarly, a truly elected Syrian government won't stay in power for long if it tolerates continued Israeli subjugation and abuse of Palestinians, or if Israel won't allow repatriation of the Palestinian refugees currently housed by Syria in its refugee camps.
The beauty of democracy is that there is no point in arguing here if we are not voters - let's just wait to see the outcome!
Last edited by Trim Stab; 29th Oct 2011 at 21:41.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Can you all see the political 'process'. Now we have a little spare 'metal', I think it will all suddenly become totally unacceptable and we will just HAVE to put a NFZ over Syria.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Syrian Rebels Attack Damascus Military Base, Form Council
Syrian opposition activists say army defectors have attacked a government base near the capital, Damascus, and formed a rebel council in an escalation of an eight-month uprising against the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
The activists say rebels of the Free Syrian Army fired rockets and machine guns at an air force intelligence complex in the Damascus suburb of Harasta early Wednesday. There was no independent confirmation of the rebel attack or information about casualties.
A Germany-based spokesman for Syria's Local Coordination Committees says the Free Syrian Army has established a temporary military council whose goal is to weaken the Syrian security forces. Hozan Ibrahim says the Syrian rebels announced the formation of the council in a statement released late Tuesday. The Free Syrian Army previously had no announced central command.
A group of men claiming to be Syrian army defectors also released a video statement Wednesday declaring their desertion from the pro-Assad military.
Syrian army defectors have engaged in increasingly deadly battles with government forces in the past week. But those confrontations had been concentrated outside the capital, including the northwestern region of Idlib, the central region of Homs and southern region of Daraa...........
Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey Train “Mercenaries”, Send Them to Syria: Report
Syrian opposition activists say army defectors have attacked a government base near the capital, Damascus, and formed a rebel council in an escalation of an eight-month uprising against the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
The activists say rebels of the Free Syrian Army fired rockets and machine guns at an air force intelligence complex in the Damascus suburb of Harasta early Wednesday. There was no independent confirmation of the rebel attack or information about casualties.
A Germany-based spokesman for Syria's Local Coordination Committees says the Free Syrian Army has established a temporary military council whose goal is to weaken the Syrian security forces. Hozan Ibrahim says the Syrian rebels announced the formation of the council in a statement released late Tuesday. The Free Syrian Army previously had no announced central command.
A group of men claiming to be Syrian army defectors also released a video statement Wednesday declaring their desertion from the pro-Assad military.
Syrian army defectors have engaged in increasingly deadly battles with government forces in the past week. But those confrontations had been concentrated outside the capital, including the northwestern region of Idlib, the central region of Homs and southern region of Daraa...........
Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey Train “Mercenaries”, Send Them to Syria: Report
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
You can see where this is going....... 
Torygraph: Call for David Cameron to lead action against Syria
David Cameron has been urged by at least one Arab state to lead a diplomatic offensive against Syria, after successfully cooperating with regional powers to oust Col Gaddafi, The Daily Telegraph has learned.
Grauniad: Syria crisis: Arab call to work with the west for diplomatic solution
Britain and France preferred partners in a Libya-style 'contact group' to co-ordinate policy, but no question of military action
.......Diplomats said the key issue was to draw up a plan for a military and civilian Arab League mission to Syria – the only way of getting observers on the ground amid concerns about the need to protect civilians. Details need to be accepted by Syria. Arabi said that no observers would be sent without clear agreement from Damascus.
The league gave Syria three days to end the crackdown on protests and allow in teams of observers, signalling its patience with Damascus was running out. League foreign ministers meeting in Morocco said in a statement they had also asked their experts to draft a plan for economic sanctions on Syria, which was suspended from the organisation.
Asked if the three-day deadline was a last-ditch attempt at diplomacy, Qatari foreign minister Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim al-Thani told reporters: "I do not want this to sound like a warning. What I can say is that we are close to the end of the road as far as the [Arab League's] efforts on this front are concerned."
The body did not say what would happen if Syria failed to comply.............
Torygraph: Call for David Cameron to lead action against Syria
David Cameron has been urged by at least one Arab state to lead a diplomatic offensive against Syria, after successfully cooperating with regional powers to oust Col Gaddafi, The Daily Telegraph has learned.
Grauniad: Syria crisis: Arab call to work with the west for diplomatic solution
Britain and France preferred partners in a Libya-style 'contact group' to co-ordinate policy, but no question of military action
.......Diplomats said the key issue was to draw up a plan for a military and civilian Arab League mission to Syria – the only way of getting observers on the ground amid concerns about the need to protect civilians. Details need to be accepted by Syria. Arabi said that no observers would be sent without clear agreement from Damascus.
The league gave Syria three days to end the crackdown on protests and allow in teams of observers, signalling its patience with Damascus was running out. League foreign ministers meeting in Morocco said in a statement they had also asked their experts to draft a plan for economic sanctions on Syria, which was suspended from the organisation.
Asked if the three-day deadline was a last-ditch attempt at diplomacy, Qatari foreign minister Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim al-Thani told reporters: "I do not want this to sound like a warning. What I can say is that we are close to the end of the road as far as the [Arab League's] efforts on this front are concerned."
The body did not say what would happen if Syria failed to comply.............
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Syria's Muslim Brotherhood open to Turkish 'role'
(AFP) – 3 hours ago
ISTANBUL — The leader of Syria's exiled Muslim Brotherhood said Thursday that his compatriots would accept Turkish "intervention" in the country to resolve months of bloody unrest.
"The Syrian people would accept intervention coming from Turkey, rather than from the West, if its goal was to protect the people," Mohammad Riad Shakfa told a press conference. "We may ask more from Turkey as a neighbour," he also said, without elaborating on the nature of the intervention which the Brotherhood might consider acceptable.
On Thursday, pro-government daily Sabah reported that the opposition Syrian National Council (SNC), together with the Muslim Brotherhood, had asked Turkey to establish a no-fly zone on the Syrian side of the shared border to protect Syrian civilians.
Mohammed Faruk Tayfur, political leader of the Muslim Brotherhood and a member of the SNC, declined to comment on the allegations, saying only that discussions were held on "every possible means" with several governments in order to stop violence. He added that the governments and the SNC discussed how to increase political pressure on Assad and the possibility of an economic embargo against Syria, in a way that would not affect the people.
"We discussed every possible means available by international law to stop the killing of civilians," Tayfur said. "We are trying to prevent the killings of civilians as we (try) to mobilise the international community," he said, while rejecting foreign intervention in Syria. If there is foreign intervention, something which we would not want... the entire responsibility rests with the dictatorial regime in Syria," he said.........
(AFP) – 3 hours ago
ISTANBUL — The leader of Syria's exiled Muslim Brotherhood said Thursday that his compatriots would accept Turkish "intervention" in the country to resolve months of bloody unrest.
"The Syrian people would accept intervention coming from Turkey, rather than from the West, if its goal was to protect the people," Mohammad Riad Shakfa told a press conference. "We may ask more from Turkey as a neighbour," he also said, without elaborating on the nature of the intervention which the Brotherhood might consider acceptable.
On Thursday, pro-government daily Sabah reported that the opposition Syrian National Council (SNC), together with the Muslim Brotherhood, had asked Turkey to establish a no-fly zone on the Syrian side of the shared border to protect Syrian civilians.
Mohammed Faruk Tayfur, political leader of the Muslim Brotherhood and a member of the SNC, declined to comment on the allegations, saying only that discussions were held on "every possible means" with several governments in order to stop violence. He added that the governments and the SNC discussed how to increase political pressure on Assad and the possibility of an economic embargo against Syria, in a way that would not affect the people.
"We discussed every possible means available by international law to stop the killing of civilians," Tayfur said. "We are trying to prevent the killings of civilians as we (try) to mobilise the international community," he said, while rejecting foreign intervention in Syria. If there is foreign intervention, something which we would not want... the entire responsibility rests with the dictatorial regime in Syria," he said.........
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
BBC: Syria conflict 'similar to civil war', Russia says
........'End of the line'
.....Turkey, which shares a long border with Syria, has been increasingly critical of Mr Assad and on Thursday, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused the international community of failing to act on the Syrian crisis because it was not resource-rich, as had been the case with Libya. "The silence and unresponsiveness of those who have an appetite for Libya to the massacres in Syria is creating irreparable wounds in the conscience of humanity," he said at an energy forum in Istanbul.
Meanwhile, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe is heading to Turkey for talks on how to address the growing crisis. They are expected to focus on ways in which the international community can increase pressure on President Bashar al-Assad to stand down, and to begin planning for the post-Assad era.
The parties will also discuss ways in which the issue can be pushed at the UN Security Council...............
The BBC's Jonathan Head in Ankara says Turkey and France have not always seen eye-to-eye during the Arab Spring uprisings but will hope to present Syria with incontrovertible proof that it is now almost totally isolated.
France, Britain, Germany and a number of Arab states are to submit a draft resolution to the calling for a vote in the UN General Assembly condemning the violence.
However it is clear that events on the ground are outpacing international diplomacy, our correspondent adds.
........'End of the line'
.....Turkey, which shares a long border with Syria, has been increasingly critical of Mr Assad and on Thursday, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused the international community of failing to act on the Syrian crisis because it was not resource-rich, as had been the case with Libya. "The silence and unresponsiveness of those who have an appetite for Libya to the massacres in Syria is creating irreparable wounds in the conscience of humanity," he said at an energy forum in Istanbul.
Meanwhile, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe is heading to Turkey for talks on how to address the growing crisis. They are expected to focus on ways in which the international community can increase pressure on President Bashar al-Assad to stand down, and to begin planning for the post-Assad era.
The parties will also discuss ways in which the issue can be pushed at the UN Security Council...............
The BBC's Jonathan Head in Ankara says Turkey and France have not always seen eye-to-eye during the Arab Spring uprisings but will hope to present Syria with incontrovertible proof that it is now almost totally isolated.
France, Britain, Germany and a number of Arab states are to submit a draft resolution to the calling for a vote in the UN General Assembly condemning the violence.
However it is clear that events on the ground are outpacing international diplomacy, our correspondent adds.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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won't allow repatriation of the Palestinian refugees currently housed by Syria in its refugee camps.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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PTT - I lived and worked in the Middle East for a considerable number of years,
was common knowledge.
Work it out, when did the Palestinians leave Israel/Palestine? Late forties, early fifties, the youngest genuine refugee would now be approaching sixty.
that information?
Work it out, when did the Palestinians leave Israel/Palestine? Late forties, early fifties, the youngest genuine refugee would now be approaching sixty.
Work it out, when did the Palestinians leave Israel/Palestine? Late forties, early fifties, the youngest genuine refugee would now be approaching sixty.
Admittedly, it is fairly impractical now for the refugees to return - that would mean a defacto end to Israel as a "democratic" state. However, it doesn't diminish the injustice that was served upon them when they were expelled.
Winston Churchill was correct when he opposed the creation of the state of Israel, on the grounds that it would cause a century of wars. His solution was to reintigrate the displaced jews back into their countries of recent origin in Europe - as ever he was right. Unfortunately Roosevelt overruled him with today's disastrous consequences.
Last edited by Trim Stab; 19th Nov 2011 at 18:37.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Do you suppose they gave up their land and livelihoods voluntarily, in order to go and live in a refugee camp in Syria or Jordan? Do you imagine they had a choice?
Winston Churchill was a brilliant man but the idea that you could reintegrate the Jewish people that survived back into the Soviet block of countries and Germany in the immediate post war period was just fanciful.
So the Saudis are controlling the US?
Interesting theory, never heard that before.
Interesting theory, never heard that before.
Winston Churchill was a brilliant man but the idea that you could reintegrate the Jewish people that survived back into the Soviet block of countries and Germany in the immediate post war period was just fanciful.
The full consequences of Roosevelt's acquiescence to Hitler's "First Solution" (ie expel the German/Austrian Jews to Palestine) are yet to be seen. As Churchill predicted, it would cause a century of wars of which we are just part way through - it could well yet eventually be considered by future historians to be the cause of WWIII.
Last edited by Trim Stab; 21st Nov 2011 at 17:54.