Bringing home the crew of KL654.
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Bringing home the crew of KL654.
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This country's complete lack of respect and compassion for its service personnel and their families is beyond belief. These young men died on active service for their country. The Government and the MoD have a duty to support the recovery of their bodies. Absolutely shameful that it is having to be done privately.
Steady CWM. Your blood pressure is rising again!
Steady CWM. Your blood pressure is rising again!
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I have just checked the Commenwealth graves commision web site, the names of the crew appear on the Singapore Memorial, so there is at least some record of the accident and so for the past 60 years somewhere for the families to visit.
As for whether or not the remains should be returned to the UK, it was policy to bury the dead in the country where they fell so how about the remains are taken to the Commenwealth cemetry in KL or Singapore and each crew member given their own headstone.
Just a thought..... the main thing is that they are remembered and never forgotten.
ICSC
As for whether or not the remains should be returned to the UK, it was policy to bury the dead in the country where they fell so how about the remains are taken to the Commenwealth cemetry in KL or Singapore and each crew member given their own headstone.
Just a thought..... the main thing is that they are remembered and never forgotten.
ICSC
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The Australians recovered a Canberra crew recently and the UK g'ment has worked with the Aussies to the tune of millions to dig up WW1 vets and rebury them half a mile away. But there is a difference between being buried and remembered with respect, and left lying about the jungle and remembered with respect.
Typical MoD. If its not in the public eye and being dragged kicking and screaming to the cheque book in the harsh glare of public condemnation, it does f#ck all for those it relies on.
Typical MoD. If its not in the public eye and being dragged kicking and screaming to the cheque book in the harsh glare of public condemnation, it does f#ck all for those it relies on.
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It never fails to amaze me that people will sign -up voluntarily to serve such a despicable, morally-bankrupt organisation as the MOD.
These "leaders " (who, no doubt, have their snouts firmly in the trough of Public largesse) should hanng their heads in shame.....except they have none.
Perhaps they need a return to dragging-out, tarring and feathering.
Come the revolution, we'll hang them from the lampposts.
These "leaders " (who, no doubt, have their snouts firmly in the trough of Public largesse) should hanng their heads in shame.....except they have none.
Perhaps they need a return to dragging-out, tarring and feathering.
Come the revolution, we'll hang them from the lampposts.
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These men should be treated no less than the fallen of today, the MOD should send our recovery teams to repatriate them and drive them through Wooten Basset to give them the send off they deserve.
To see how the Americans do it check out the film "Taking Chance" starring Kevin Bacon, (based on a true story). If it doesn't bring a tear to your eye, nothing will. It is an absolute gem!
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How utterly ashamed I am to see that this once great nation is now no longer able to even help repatriate a fallen RAF crew.
Shame on the MOD and the government. If ever there was confirmation needed as to how the armed forces are regarded by this government and 'their' own in the MOD, then surely people need look no further than this despicable act of disgust and shame.
Only a couple of weeks ago, we read on PPrune how the Americans had finally recovered the remains of the US Navy chap, shot down on the first night of GW1. More recently we see the Aussies bringing home a lost Canberra crew. The Americans I understand have a team in Cambodia and Vietnam permanently looking for their lost POWs etc.
And this lousy, stinking, good-for-nothing bunch in incompetant arseholes at the MOD and in government can't do likewise for one of our own. What have we become that this kind of thing can happen? Just how low can things get? What greater saccrifice could these guys have made for our nation?
Can't talk anymore, just too bl00dy angry. Infact I think I will write to my MP now about this and see what happens. God help us.
Winco
Shame on the MOD and the government. If ever there was confirmation needed as to how the armed forces are regarded by this government and 'their' own in the MOD, then surely people need look no further than this despicable act of disgust and shame.
Only a couple of weeks ago, we read on PPrune how the Americans had finally recovered the remains of the US Navy chap, shot down on the first night of GW1. More recently we see the Aussies bringing home a lost Canberra crew. The Americans I understand have a team in Cambodia and Vietnam permanently looking for their lost POWs etc.
And this lousy, stinking, good-for-nothing bunch in incompetant arseholes at the MOD and in government can't do likewise for one of our own. What have we become that this kind of thing can happen? Just how low can things get? What greater saccrifice could these guys have made for our nation?
Can't talk anymore, just too bl00dy angry. Infact I think I will write to my MP now about this and see what happens. God help us.
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In today's uncertain world, were I to die in action, I would expect my remains to be recovered and returned to UK. Of times past I would have wanted to be buried with others in theatre that had also given the ultimate sacrifice.
Having visited a number of war and other graves in foreign parts these graves really bring a lump to the throat and have far more impact than a scattering of war graves at home.
To see the sweeping fields of grave markers in France or in Singapore brings home very forcefully the futility of war. To see the graves atop a hill on a Caribbean island, or the dead from Trafalgar laid to rest in Gibraltar, so far from home in some forgotten corner of some foreign land, is most moving.
Having visited a number of war and other graves in foreign parts these graves really bring a lump to the throat and have far more impact than a scattering of war graves at home.
To see the sweeping fields of grave markers in France or in Singapore brings home very forcefully the futility of war. To see the graves atop a hill on a Caribbean island, or the dead from Trafalgar laid to rest in Gibraltar, so far from home in some forgotten corner of some foreign land, is most moving.
I was stationed at RAF China Bay in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) in 1957 and didn't know until a visit in 2002 that a war graves cemetary existed in Trincomalee, just across the bay from China Bay where I was stationed - read on.
One of the far-flung Commonwealth War Graves Commission Cemeteries is the Trincomalee Commonwealth War Graves Commission Cemetery in north eastern Sri Lanka which is one of six commonwealth war cemeteries in Sri Lanka.
The Trincomalee cemetery was originally the Combined Services Cemetery, but was taken over by the Admiralty from the military in April 1948 for use as a permanent naval cemetery. On the withdrawal of UK Forces from Ceylon (Sri Lanka) in 1957 it became the property of the Sri Lanka Government who granted the Commonwealth War Graves Commission security of tenure in perpetuity. Save for a few post-war and non-war graves it is purely a war cemetery. The non-war graves are those of men of the Merchant Navy whose death was not due to war service and of civilians, of whom some were employees of the Admiralty; while the post-war graves were dependents of servicemen, civilian employees of the Admiralty and dependents of such employees. The cemetery contains 360 named graves and 4 unknown.
As expected most graves contain the remains of naval servicemen who died when the Japanese bombed the Royal Naval Eastern Fleet base at Trincomalee in April 1942. (Photo taken in May 2002 shows the caretaker responsible for the upkeep of the cemetery holding the cemetery visitors book and very proud to show visitors the entry signed by Princess Ann that she made on a visit to Trinco, date unknown).
One of the far-flung Commonwealth War Graves Commission Cemeteries is the Trincomalee Commonwealth War Graves Commission Cemetery in north eastern Sri Lanka which is one of six commonwealth war cemeteries in Sri Lanka.
The Trincomalee cemetery was originally the Combined Services Cemetery, but was taken over by the Admiralty from the military in April 1948 for use as a permanent naval cemetery. On the withdrawal of UK Forces from Ceylon (Sri Lanka) in 1957 it became the property of the Sri Lanka Government who granted the Commonwealth War Graves Commission security of tenure in perpetuity. Save for a few post-war and non-war graves it is purely a war cemetery. The non-war graves are those of men of the Merchant Navy whose death was not due to war service and of civilians, of whom some were employees of the Admiralty; while the post-war graves were dependents of servicemen, civilian employees of the Admiralty and dependents of such employees. The cemetery contains 360 named graves and 4 unknown.
As expected most graves contain the remains of naval servicemen who died when the Japanese bombed the Royal Naval Eastern Fleet base at Trincomalee in April 1942. (Photo taken in May 2002 shows the caretaker responsible for the upkeep of the cemetery holding the cemetery visitors book and very proud to show visitors the entry signed by Princess Ann that she made on a visit to Trinco, date unknown).
Last edited by Warmtoast; 12th Oct 2012 at 17:00. Reason: To restore moved photo
Warmtoast, my Dad is buried in the CWGC Cemetery at Yokohama having died as a POW in Japan. I have visited his grave in what is, like Trincomalee, an immaculate cemetery. As has been said, if these remains had been recovered shortly after the accident they would surely have been buried in the nearest CWGC Cemetery and hence amongst their contemporaries. It is now part of my family heritage that my dad is buried where he is and why, which one day I hope to explain to my grandchildren when they are old enough to understand. The sadness of these places is palpable, far more so than a UK civil cemetery or even a war memorial. They serve to remind us of the terrible price that war exacts. If I were the NoK I might hope that the crew of KL654 could contribute to that message for future generations, by carrying out a last duty "on parade" in those unmistakably military serried rows, just as my father does.
Cockney Steve:
They don't. They serve their Queen and Country, not a Government Department!
Cockney Steve:
It never fails to amaze me that people will sign -up voluntarily to serve such a despicable, morally-bankrupt organisation as the MOD.
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TIEW, have been trying to find the film you refer to - 'Taking Chance.' But searching for either KB or Taking Chance hasn't produced a result. Any further ideas?
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This country's complete lack of respect and compassion for its service personnel and their families is beyond belief.
PPruNe Pop
Try Internet Movie Database (Imdb)
Taking Chance (2009) (TV)
and Amazon
Amazon.com: Taking Chance: Kevin Bacon, Michael Strobl: Movies & TV
Hope you can get a copy from somewhere.
Cheers
Try Internet Movie Database (Imdb)
Taking Chance (2009) (TV)
and Amazon
Amazon.com: Taking Chance: Kevin Bacon, Michael Strobl: Movies & TV
Hope you can get a copy from somewhere.
Cheers
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Thanks for that. I have just now ordered it from Amazon. I normally get films from a huge library in the UK but this one is Region 1 only, which I have.
Thanks again.
PPP
Thanks again.
PPP
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Al R and all those that have contributed.
Thanks for bringing this to the attention of PPRuNers.
We begged the Daily Telegraph not to publish that report as it jeopardises the aims of the expedition. They were more interested in a story they could publish than the outcome to the crew.
Needless to say I can’t go into it too much detail about the expedition and the outcome but I will spell out a few points.
The Malaysians found a crashed aircraft in the mountains and reported it as KL654. The location of the crash site had been contested by the MoD and the government as KL654 was reported lost at sea! Despite the Malaysians bringing back proof, the UK constantly denied it was KL654. They utterly refused to investigate. Eventually the evidence was overwhelming and they conceded that it was KL654.
They sent out the Defence Attaché and his Warrant officer to investigate – neither were aviation trained and both unqualified to make an assessment. They scraped down 6 inches of soil and covered an area 2 metres x 2 metres. They found personal items of the crew including a dog tag and a bone fragment. A consultant anthropologist said the bone was proven not to be animal and was consistent with the only other option – human. It couldn’t be DNA tested due to its size and state. The MoD and government refused to accept it as human and stated that the bones should have decayed by now, or would have been eaten by the wild animals? They closed the case.
Visit after visit by the Malaysians (when they could find it) proved that items of the aircraft were being stolen and the ground where the men were believed to be was being repeatedly dug up by treasure hunters. The men could not rest and the relatives of the crew asked in the Houses of Parliament if the MoD would recover them. The MoD answer was simple: we have done a thorough investigation of the site and there is nothing left. (They dug 2m x 2m and the aircraft was 110 feet wide, 66 feet long and 17 feet tall!) This closed the door on the relatives.
Clayton and I were asked by NESA if we would do the job for the relatives ourselves and pay our own way.
I dug into the government and MoD to see if what I was being presented was the truth and to see if I could get any assistance. I was both shocked and stunned by what I was told. British Forces left behind after in foreign countries are no longer the responsibility of the British Government.
I asked what their position was on the fact that a bone had been found and I got the same fobbing off. They would not actively look for any of our men even if one was reported. They would only act if the host nation could prove that it was one of ours. I was told by one Malaysian official that they were told by the Brits “if you don’t find a whole skeleton don’t call us. If you do and you can prove it’s ours we’ll assist in the burial.”
They said there would be no funding, no manpower and no equipment but wished us luck.
It cost us a bob or two but we’ve been and we’ve done it. The men are now safe and awaiting the next step. We’re just waiting for a few final reports to come through.
We will be publishing our report to the relatives very soon. If they are in agreement, it will be delivered to all of the UK newspapers at the same as it’s sent to the Defence Minister and the MoD. It will highlight what our country’s policy is on those that are left behind in conflicts. It will shock and upset you. It will show the fibs that were told to our government by the MoD to save money. It will pose some very straight-forward questions to our government on what the relatives want the government to do with the 8 man crew.
Finally it will highlight what other nations do for their fallen and what we don’t.
Food for thought: Your child is asked to go to Afghanistan and fight for our country’s security. They do it bravely and suddenly disappear in firefight never be seen again. One day, the war will be over. What is our government’s policy on researching, studying and searching for him?
It’s up to the host nation to do it because they’re no longer our responsibility…
Please support us when it all comes out and assist us getting it into the public eye. Only public outrage can sway a government that worries more about being in power than they do for the troops that allow them the freedom to make policy.
Link this to whatever you can.
Ed Macy
Author and former Attack Pilot
Clayton Ford
British Police Detective
Thanks for bringing this to the attention of PPRuNers.
We begged the Daily Telegraph not to publish that report as it jeopardises the aims of the expedition. They were more interested in a story they could publish than the outcome to the crew.
Needless to say I can’t go into it too much detail about the expedition and the outcome but I will spell out a few points.
The Malaysians found a crashed aircraft in the mountains and reported it as KL654. The location of the crash site had been contested by the MoD and the government as KL654 was reported lost at sea! Despite the Malaysians bringing back proof, the UK constantly denied it was KL654. They utterly refused to investigate. Eventually the evidence was overwhelming and they conceded that it was KL654.
They sent out the Defence Attaché and his Warrant officer to investigate – neither were aviation trained and both unqualified to make an assessment. They scraped down 6 inches of soil and covered an area 2 metres x 2 metres. They found personal items of the crew including a dog tag and a bone fragment. A consultant anthropologist said the bone was proven not to be animal and was consistent with the only other option – human. It couldn’t be DNA tested due to its size and state. The MoD and government refused to accept it as human and stated that the bones should have decayed by now, or would have been eaten by the wild animals? They closed the case.
Visit after visit by the Malaysians (when they could find it) proved that items of the aircraft were being stolen and the ground where the men were believed to be was being repeatedly dug up by treasure hunters. The men could not rest and the relatives of the crew asked in the Houses of Parliament if the MoD would recover them. The MoD answer was simple: we have done a thorough investigation of the site and there is nothing left. (They dug 2m x 2m and the aircraft was 110 feet wide, 66 feet long and 17 feet tall!) This closed the door on the relatives.
Clayton and I were asked by NESA if we would do the job for the relatives ourselves and pay our own way.
I dug into the government and MoD to see if what I was being presented was the truth and to see if I could get any assistance. I was both shocked and stunned by what I was told. British Forces left behind after in foreign countries are no longer the responsibility of the British Government.
I asked what their position was on the fact that a bone had been found and I got the same fobbing off. They would not actively look for any of our men even if one was reported. They would only act if the host nation could prove that it was one of ours. I was told by one Malaysian official that they were told by the Brits “if you don’t find a whole skeleton don’t call us. If you do and you can prove it’s ours we’ll assist in the burial.”
They said there would be no funding, no manpower and no equipment but wished us luck.
It cost us a bob or two but we’ve been and we’ve done it. The men are now safe and awaiting the next step. We’re just waiting for a few final reports to come through.
We will be publishing our report to the relatives very soon. If they are in agreement, it will be delivered to all of the UK newspapers at the same as it’s sent to the Defence Minister and the MoD. It will highlight what our country’s policy is on those that are left behind in conflicts. It will shock and upset you. It will show the fibs that were told to our government by the MoD to save money. It will pose some very straight-forward questions to our government on what the relatives want the government to do with the 8 man crew.
Finally it will highlight what other nations do for their fallen and what we don’t.
Food for thought: Your child is asked to go to Afghanistan and fight for our country’s security. They do it bravely and suddenly disappear in firefight never be seen again. One day, the war will be over. What is our government’s policy on researching, studying and searching for him?
It’s up to the host nation to do it because they’re no longer our responsibility…
Please support us when it all comes out and assist us getting it into the public eye. Only public outrage can sway a government that worries more about being in power than they do for the troops that allow them the freedom to make policy.
Link this to whatever you can.
Ed Macy
Author and former Attack Pilot
Clayton Ford
British Police Detective
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Well, good luck and well done.
I would like to agree with you when you say that we might be shocked. However, nothing that our supposed lords and masters would do in a matter such as this would shock me any longer.
I would like to agree with you when you say that we might be shocked. However, nothing that our supposed lords and masters would do in a matter such as this would shock me any longer.
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I am a bit shocked and quite disgusted at the Official reaction to this search to lay to rest this crew.
Please advise us of the Official contacts names so that we can Name & Shame the individuals involved.
My god, what sort of so-called leadership to we have to endure now?
W@nkers everyone of them it would appear!
Please advise us of the Official contacts names so that we can Name & Shame the individuals involved.
My god, what sort of so-called leadership to we have to endure now?
W@nkers everyone of them it would appear!
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Why Didn't the RAF Act?
Ed Well done.
Have you actually recovered the bodies?
Whilst we expect little from the Govt / MoD, what I dont understand is why the RAF / CAS have not deployed a recovery team to look for / recover the crew once the wreckage was found?
TT
Have you actually recovered the bodies?
Whilst we expect little from the Govt / MoD, what I dont understand is why the RAF / CAS have not deployed a recovery team to look for / recover the crew once the wreckage was found?
TT