Military AircrewA forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.
1. Remove headress in court. 2. uncover when taking the oath (there are religious exceptions.) 3. RAF also comply with AP 1358.
AP1358 0126 a. No 1 SD Hat. The No 1 SD hat is never worn with CS 95.
b. Forage Cap. The forage cap, . . . optional extra . . . forage cap is never worn with CS 95.
c. Beret. How but not when
0127. Hats need not be worn: (QR 202)
a. When indoors at designated place of work.
b. When in FOD hazard areas.
c. When serving detention.
d. When otherwise ordered.
e. When engaged on PEd instructional duties (PTIs only).
f. When attending a church service (female personnel excepted).
g. Male personnel, other than members of the Jewish faith or of other religions which require the head to be covered on solemn occasions, when in civil or Service courts and when taking oaths, are to have the head uncovered whenever they take oaths. (See AP 3265 – Guide to Legal Procedures).
h. Additionally, except when on duty under arms, Service personnel in civil courts are not to wear their headdress while the judge or magistrate is present.
I remember the day when you could smoke in Uniform in public amd inside a public building. The rule i remember was that as long as you were seated and you removed your hat then it was OK, On one occassion passing through Paddington station a small group (about 10 of us) were all sat down by the OC and told to remove head dress and smoke them if we had them.
So this goes back to being the days of being hat less in public and smoking in doors, a crime i believe is now punishable by public floging
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
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'Need not be worn' is a very weak statement and contains no element of compulsion.
'Shall be worn except' would be a better statement - except that the list would need to be considerably longer, as otherwise it would then be contrary to QRs not to wear your hat whilst having a crap in uniform....or rather, when in uniform having a crap. Or indeed, unless you're a Mess Hand, when dining in Mess!
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 20,176
Combining those 2 topics, the original letter in Air Clues suggesting that 'wings' should be worn on the woolly-pully was actually intended as a joke.....
Someone took it seriously, it seems...
Yes, those wretched 'Air power' articles were brought up at every flight safety course at the time - IFS would get chest poked by at least half the course telling them to $hitcan the damn things.
Spoke to the CASWO about wearing headress when filling up vehicles and pumping tyres up at a garage and he thought it would be reasonable not to wear it. However, if you park up and then go to the shop then you should wear your hat to the shop - he seemed pretty pragmatic about the whole thing .
I do think that something like a CBN telling what is and what isn't acceptable would be a good thing, though.
a. No 1 SD Hat. The No 1 SD hat is never worn with CS 95.
Oh C0ck! That will really disappoint my old IOT flt cdr. He always used to say that the beret was only for Regiment Officers and airmen; a real officer would never choose to wear one! If a No 1 SD hat was good enough for the desert air force I see no reason to change now.
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Yes, those wretched 'Air power' articles were brought up at every flight safety course
BEags Great news! In the new improved RAF FS empire Air Clues is to return as the RAF Flight Safety magazine; hopefully no air power articles to be included, but they are looking for some "I learnt about flying from that" articles. I am sure you have a few you might like to contribute
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 20,176
Quote:
a. No 1 SD Hat. The No 1 SD hat is never worn with CS 95
That's OK - if you still had whatever cabbage kit was called before Clockwork Squaddie 95 appeared, then you didn't need a beret, eh Roly? Wasn't there some yokel jungle hat thing which was allegedly worn with said cabbage kit??
I survived from 1974-2003 with neither a beret (lost) nor a raincoat (stolen). As I'm sure was the same for most aircrew of that era......
Good to hear that Air Clues is to make a long overdue return!
He always used to say that the beret was only for Regiment Officers and airmen; a real officer would never choose to wear one
my italics
Funny, when I was a young Regiment officer we didn't consider aircrew as real officers - something to do with few of them ever having experience of command, at least until well into their careers. (eg I had 80 blokes in my flight at Seletar when I was 20).
Of course when I converted to aircrew I rapidly became a typical crew room cowboy and changed my views entirely!
By the way as a Rockape I had a really snazzy Gieves officer's beret - do officers now make do with stores' ones? Some of them look suspiciously like it
As i said to tankertrashnav (in a PM) I have a problem looking at the upper shelves in the supermarket with the SD. I end up leaning away from the shelves and as I'm i there at 2230 plus getting the bread or milk for the grumpy 2yr olds breakfast after being up at 0530 to go to work I just can't be bothered to brain myself on a trolly full of shelf stackers trash.
In future I'll wear a civvy jacket over the uniform and blend in.
Tanksters said: Funny, when I was a young Regiment officer we didn't consider aircrew as real officers - something to do with few of them ever having experience of command, at least until well into their careers. (eg I had 80 blokes in my flight at Seletar when I was 20).
Ahem. You were mentored by NCOs and processed travel claims, you mean!
Unfortunately in todays society it has become acceptable to dress in what ever manner the celebrity of the moment deems to be in fashion regardless of where one might be seen
This view seems to have also filtered into our working life and ethos as well. I find it amusing that there is almost a hostile reaction to those who want to look good in their uniform ( or civvies) from those who aren't bothered as there is there is from those who are!
On a personal level, I would never dream of appearing in public (work, office, airport, etc) in a scruffy uniform (civilian) in the same manner as I would not have done ( or been allowed to ) in the military.
I think that half the problem is that some people find it difficult to balance their work attitudes with their social perspective.
On time off or after duty it perfectly okay to dress down but there is a time and place.
Perhaps we should go back to these examples for those in uniform!
Went to the Tesco mini store in Lyneham village today resplendent in my flying suit.
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How difficult is that
Not difficult, but could be illegal. This discussion has been about dress regulations and common sense so, on the point of regulations, the AP reminds us that flying suits are not to be worn routinely off station. I cannot remember if the village was considered (iaw SSOs) as part of the station. Common sense might suggest that it is. There are/were married quarters in the village.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 70
Posts: 9,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by amostcivilpilot
On time off or after duty it perfectly okay to dress down but there is a time and place.
You may remember when the 6442 and 1369 had a box for commenting on personal appearance both ON and OFF duty.
This rather begged the question as I would set off 25 miles in one direction and my SNCO 25 miles in 'tother.
Knowing that he was a scruffy b*gger how often did the RO actually write that down unless he turned up at a unit function? Given some 'modern' fashions, how could you tell even?
Ahem. You were mentored by NCOs and processed travel claims, you mean!
Al
Yes I'll admit having a fantastic WO and NCOs took away a lot of the work load
BUT
After a serious fire which resulted in three fatalities I was the one sitting in front of the board of enquiry answering some very searching questions about the actions of the fire crews on the day and their preparedness for such an event (all ultimately my responsibility). Certainly made me realise we werent playing games.
. The rule i remember was that as long as you were seated and you removed your hat then it was OK, On one occassion passing through Paddington station a small group (about 10 of us) were all sat down by the OC and told to remove head dress and smoke them if we had them.
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