How big do you think the exodus from EK will be....
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The money was no secret 101,500 per annum all in Gross, so roughly 5,500 pm net.
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How big do you think the exodus from EK will be....
c5.5k net in summer, c4.5k net in winter... But lots of time off the airplane in winter of course. Pay could be better but when you balance it all out, routine daytime flying and being home every night is a big pull for the guys with families. To each their own, but works for me....
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For anyone from south of the Watford Gap, just be careful trying the Yorkshire Brew. Any more than one cup and you might start embarrassing yourself in public and in front of the recruiters. And we don't want that.
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Emma R quite right, however, we all have schemes and projects that need our time.
Personally in a previous outfit I renovated our house and made a 100K ukp over one winter! So you pays your money you takes your choice!
Was thinking of doing a plumbing course and employing some apprentices that the Gov will pay for!.........................
Personally in a previous outfit I renovated our house and made a 100K ukp over one winter! So you pays your money you takes your choice!
Was thinking of doing a plumbing course and employing some apprentices that the Gov will pay for!.........................
short flights long nights
Time in the bunk is not counted towards your duty hours. As in your 100 in 28 or 900 in 365. This applies to crew that is augmenting.
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What I can't wrap my head around is 5 plus years ago, there were very few alternatives to EK and the terms and conditions were somewhat fair and reasonable. Not as much as ten years ago, but either way there were very few alternatives for a good stable airline.
Fast forward to today's employment enviornment with numerous alternatives to the big E, and the terms and conditions are worse now than have ever been. Massive hours, leaves not allocated, no pay raises, upgrades being unfilled, etc. etc. But new aircraft still being delivered and continued expansion. A static pilot workforce of around 3800 plus. With alternative employment, pilots are taking the advice of managers who have for years spewed, if you don't like it, you can leave. And the resignations of the junior cabin crew just continue on.
Who in the world is in charge? They (whomever they are) have built a fantastic brand, and for the most part, a fantastic airline. The brand continues, but as a service provider, IT'S THE PEOPLE, that make the airline. And the apathy amongst both CC and pilots is frightening. Go the extra mile? Only the personal professionalism of the CC, pilots, and ground staff is keeping this airline together. And EVERYONE, I say again, EVERYONE I fly with is looking to leave, including trainers, CRMIs, and even cubicle dwelling pilots. Sorry, most of the UAE nationals seem to be staying, even though many of them have bolted for a big airline south of here.
When Qatar is a preferred airline for employment, those with the strings here have lost the plot, totally. Can someone please explain this?
Fast forward to today's employment enviornment with numerous alternatives to the big E, and the terms and conditions are worse now than have ever been. Massive hours, leaves not allocated, no pay raises, upgrades being unfilled, etc. etc. But new aircraft still being delivered and continued expansion. A static pilot workforce of around 3800 plus. With alternative employment, pilots are taking the advice of managers who have for years spewed, if you don't like it, you can leave. And the resignations of the junior cabin crew just continue on.
Who in the world is in charge? They (whomever they are) have built a fantastic brand, and for the most part, a fantastic airline. The brand continues, but as a service provider, IT'S THE PEOPLE, that make the airline. And the apathy amongst both CC and pilots is frightening. Go the extra mile? Only the personal professionalism of the CC, pilots, and ground staff is keeping this airline together. And EVERYONE, I say again, EVERYONE I fly with is looking to leave, including trainers, CRMIs, and even cubicle dwelling pilots. Sorry, most of the UAE nationals seem to be staying, even though many of them have bolted for a big airline south of here.
When Qatar is a preferred airline for employment, those with the strings here have lost the plot, totally. Can someone please explain this?
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I can explain it:
Greed, hurbis, arrogance. I think it started when the front page of Safar had a huge headline which said, "Unstoppable" a few years back. Just before the financial crisis. Those at the top believe their own PR which is reinforced by the middle mangers who are terrified of passing on bad news.
Greed, hurbis, arrogance. I think it started when the front page of Safar had a huge headline which said, "Unstoppable" a few years back. Just before the financial crisis. Those at the top believe their own PR which is reinforced by the middle mangers who are terrified of passing on bad news.
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Maybe because things have recently improved significantly in Qatar Airways, and things have deteriorated significantly in Emirates.
I'm imagining a frightening exodus if Doha picks up the pace in being a relatively decent place to live in the Middle East which is not far from now to say the least.
Time will as always tell,
Gander
I'm imagining a frightening exodus if Doha picks up the pace in being a relatively decent place to live in the Middle East which is not far from now to say the least.
Time will as always tell,
Gander
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SOPS
I may be wrong (the issue doesn't really come up on the 330) but I believe that bunk time is still factored, but still partially counts, towards totals...the thing about it not being counted at all hasn't been implemented.
Yet...
I may be wrong (the issue doesn't really come up on the 330) but I believe that bunk time is still factored, but still partially counts, towards totals...the thing about it not being counted at all hasn't been implemented.
Yet...
short flights long nights
My two cents worth..its hubris. They ( at the top, and some Costa dwellers in middle management), believe EK is the greatest airline in the world to work for, and Dubai is the greatest place in the world to live.
Things have changed. The package EK offer is no longer great. It may still look good on paper, but the reality is different. The arrogance of management knows no bounds, they just keep on changing T and C as they see fit.
Living in Dubai ( in my opinion), has become problematic. Aside from all the problems that have been discussed here before, you are now living in the Middle East, a very very unstable part of the world.
People move to the ME, to be compisated for it, living as Expats. EK has lost sight of this, they think they are offering a product that is the equivalant of moving to Sydney, New York or London. This is far, far, far, from the truth.
The goal posts have moved big time, when I look back,at my 9 years there, I look back at the job I went to, and the job I left. The only similarity was that I flew a 777.
Just my thoughts.
Things have changed. The package EK offer is no longer great. It may still look good on paper, but the reality is different. The arrogance of management knows no bounds, they just keep on changing T and C as they see fit.
Living in Dubai ( in my opinion), has become problematic. Aside from all the problems that have been discussed here before, you are now living in the Middle East, a very very unstable part of the world.
People move to the ME, to be compisated for it, living as Expats. EK has lost sight of this, they think they are offering a product that is the equivalant of moving to Sydney, New York or London. This is far, far, far, from the truth.
The goal posts have moved big time, when I look back,at my 9 years there, I look back at the job I went to, and the job I left. The only similarity was that I flew a 777.
Just my thoughts.
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It may well get worse especially as oil prices decline further and will likely stay depressed for several years. China has devalued its currency as have a few other 'petro' nations. There are many who believe that Saudi and the UAE will do so as well - which will, essentially, be a decrease on pay.
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Things have changed. The package EK offer is no longer great. It may still look good on paper, but the reality is different. The arrogance of management knows no bounds, they just keep on changing T and C as they see fit.
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It may well get worse especially as oil prices decline further and will likely stay depressed for several years. China has devalued its currency as have a few other 'petro' nations. There are many who believe that Saudi and the UAE will do so as well - which will, essentially, be a decrease on pay.
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With Oil prices going down south and other commodities soon to follow.
It's going to be worse than than the 2008 crisis.
We never got out of the last financial crisis and this time it's going to have some huge implifications we never seen before.
Saudia will be ok for max 3-4 years, before all foreign reserves will be eaten up by the huge budget deficit. Need 100 dollars a barrel to keep this party going!
China have been manipulating growth figures for years like rest of the world,but it's catching up with everyone else soon. China's stocks crashing and currency getting devalued. Big currency war going everywhere around the world.
All this money printing and low interest rates is going to to come back and bite big time. Economics is like a cycle and usually every 7 years we have a recession,and I believe come Sep 2015 we will see lots of crashes in the stock market and finally the housing market will burst.
I just hope it doesn't look this bleak but I am afraid we have a met a dead end,and the biggest financial Institutions have no ammunition left to play with.
Interest rate at Zero for 7 years and all the money printing and still we have no growth...........Welcome to the modern day of slavery.
Buckle up its going to get ugly.
It's going to be worse than than the 2008 crisis.
We never got out of the last financial crisis and this time it's going to have some huge implifications we never seen before.
Saudia will be ok for max 3-4 years, before all foreign reserves will be eaten up by the huge budget deficit. Need 100 dollars a barrel to keep this party going!
China have been manipulating growth figures for years like rest of the world,but it's catching up with everyone else soon. China's stocks crashing and currency getting devalued. Big currency war going everywhere around the world.
All this money printing and low interest rates is going to to come back and bite big time. Economics is like a cycle and usually every 7 years we have a recession,and I believe come Sep 2015 we will see lots of crashes in the stock market and finally the housing market will burst.
I just hope it doesn't look this bleak but I am afraid we have a met a dead end,and the biggest financial Institutions have no ammunition left to play with.
Interest rate at Zero for 7 years and all the money printing and still we have no growth...........Welcome to the modern day of slavery.
Buckle up its going to get ugly.
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The next year has the potential to be interesting. TCAS is expected to leave by the end of the year and Sir TC is tipped to be not far behind him.
Above all though is the need for the deranged lunatic to leave as well. I somehow can't see that happening as he seems to be far too well connected. Even our local colleagues that we share the flight deck with, have very little to say about him that is complimentary in nature.
Above all though is the need for the deranged lunatic to leave as well. I somehow can't see that happening as he seems to be far too well connected. Even our local colleagues that we share the flight deck with, have very little to say about him that is complimentary in nature.
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Sky Hooker, good post and I share your sentiments on the position of the market. Lets hope the boys in the Middle East aren't too busy making up for the lack of crew to look into the markets and where global events are going. The ME had a soft landing last downturn, I don't think it will be the same this time. This chart has some worrying implications. With the current situation on recruitment and people leaving, it will be good to stay safe in the markets so you don't have to work in the ME longer than is necessary. Looking at that chart 900 target has to be considered.
Jack
Jack