Increased EK attrition
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I find many of the pilots I know who have left or are planning to are looking to get back home. EK has become intolerable for them and they look for an alternative. Pay doesn't matter anymore. They'll take a pay cut, commute etc. In most cases pay is as good or better than EK as well!
in most cases pay is as good or better than EK as well!
If such a job existed in Europe I'd be there in a shot, but until that happens the plan is to send as much money home so I don't have to worry too much about working in the future. I can't see any opportunities in the western world for the foreseeable future unfortunately.
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While we can debate how many will leave I think a much larger factor may have been missed.
Consider over the past 6-7 years the American ranks at EK have gone from a small number to the second largest currently at EK contributing to around 20% of all new additions to the list.
This has fuelled EK's growth and a/c arrivals, I believe it's more about the ones who won't now come because of opportunities back home that will hurt EK, couple that with those that leave and we start to see a shortfall to cover expansion.
Add in an improving world economy over the next couple of years and finding experienced pilots may be difficult again
Consider over the past 6-7 years the American ranks at EK have gone from a small number to the second largest currently at EK contributing to around 20% of all new additions to the list.
This has fuelled EK's growth and a/c arrivals, I believe it's more about the ones who won't now come because of opportunities back home that will hurt EK, couple that with those that leave and we start to see a shortfall to cover expansion.
Add in an improving world economy over the next couple of years and finding experienced pilots may be difficult again
Last edited by Instant Hooligan; 26th Aug 2013 at 11:59.
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Attrition is no headache for EK, nor is refilling the voids.
The problem is already here, namely quality of applicants and those who eventually jump through the hoops and loops. If the western companies need more pilots, it will not be by poaching back the ones that left, but to keep the ones they have and the newcomers. That's where the A and B teams will be in the future, leaving the C+ for the ME and Asia.
EK does not bother, as has been said, they calculate coldly that they can afford one or two smoking holes.
Listening to the radio and reading all the FCIs and ASRs recently makes you wonder if those writing have ever had something called aviation common sense. But be assured that by writing that bs, they pave the way for a star and will then diligently propagate their infinite wisdom.
That's the danger for EK, not the attrition.
The problem is already here, namely quality of applicants and those who eventually jump through the hoops and loops. If the western companies need more pilots, it will not be by poaching back the ones that left, but to keep the ones they have and the newcomers. That's where the A and B teams will be in the future, leaving the C+ for the ME and Asia.
EK does not bother, as has been said, they calculate coldly that they can afford one or two smoking holes.
Listening to the radio and reading all the FCIs and ASRs recently makes you wonder if those writing have ever had something called aviation common sense. But be assured that by writing that bs, they pave the way for a star and will then diligently propagate their infinite wisdom.
That's the danger for EK, not the attrition.
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Some very good analysis here. The Talking Horse even talked about the furlough recalls amongst the Yanks. But what has not been talked about is even a very few R.A. guys have left. Reason? Rostering and lifestyle. They never thought it could have been worse than R.A., but.........Not many just a few, but it could sow the seeds of others thinking twice about 92 hours, no commuting, 45° heat, and second class citizen status. The big shiny jet syndrome wears off when you actually fly it for only five minutes out of 3-15 hours. HR isn't worried, the innocents continue to apply. Until they experience the 92 hours of 1/2 being all night flying, Available Days arbitrarily inserted to prevent too much time off in a row, etc. etc., they can only be called the "innocents". "It can't be that bad."
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Union protection? ALPO you mean. Not protection, you mean grieve it now, and a couple years we will find an arbitrator that might get around to it. Union protection is NOT in the mix for us Yanks looking to go back.
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If you leave don't think that you will be missed or have any impact on EK ops because you won't. Leave because you want to leave or think you will be better off . Not because you don't like it here. good luck to those who leave.
Last edited by fatbus; 27th Aug 2013 at 12:01.
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The first bunch are now coming to the 7 year itch (fully vested in Provident Fund)
If you hear anyone mention they are delaying their decision to depart awaiting this development let them know 'tis a red herring. Suppose you have five years in - it is quite possible the company owes you more than you have in the provident "A" fund as the amount they pay you must be equal to or greater than your EOSB. There is a link somewhere on HR Direct which calculates that latter amount for you and you can discover whether or not it is in your favour to leave ASAP.
If you hear anyone mention they are delaying their decision to depart awaiting this development let them know 'tis a red herring. Suppose you have five years in - it is quite possible the company owes you more than you have in the provident "A" fund as the amount they pay you must be equal to or greater than your EOSB. There is a link somewhere on HR Direct which calculates that latter amount for you and you can discover whether or not it is in your favour to leave ASAP.
At least they did for me!
Can't speak to the actual attrition and don't care. But if there is a sizable demographic hanging on for the seven years, I certainly do think it could be just hanging on for the extra 25%.
But yes, by all means do the calculation and realize that if the EOSB is better then why on earth are you still slaving away for the machine?!
Take it and run.
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This is a very good thread and has some very good points. Trader has some good and interesting arguments.
I am about to leave the "other" airline and find the same thing happening here.
Guys I speak to are not happy and many are looking and going through the same process as mentioned by Trader.
I'm leaving but not to fly. I have enjoyed myself here in most parts but will be keeping an eye on what is happening here. I think they will find it very difficult to find the numbers they are looking for given the size of expansion they are expecting! Good look guys!
I am about to leave the "other" airline and find the same thing happening here.
Guys I speak to are not happy and many are looking and going through the same process as mentioned by Trader.
I'm leaving but not to fly. I have enjoyed myself here in most parts but will be keeping an eye on what is happening here. I think they will find it very difficult to find the numbers they are looking for given the size of expansion they are expecting! Good look guys!
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Glofish and Trader have definitely noticed a trend in the last few months, and I see it on the flightdeck regularly.
There are several well known cases of wide body TRIs making the choice to be recalled stateside, for a narrow body, right hand seat job in their second or third preferred base. But others are now also starting to head to Asia. The decision has always been a personal choice for lifestyle or family reasons, but for the first time I'm seeing large numbers of FOs resigning and looking anywhere else rather than waiting for their commands.
This momentum appears to be building because of many factors but the profit share announcement, the time now required to command, the future fleet plans, the impending runway closures, the reduction in recruiting numbers, and DEFO recruitment to A380 have collectively created a very 'sour pill' within the last 6 months.
The feeling is that unless some big positive announcements regarding the future of the airline and each of the fleets come soon, the flow might start to quicken.
There are several well known cases of wide body TRIs making the choice to be recalled stateside, for a narrow body, right hand seat job in their second or third preferred base. But others are now also starting to head to Asia. The decision has always been a personal choice for lifestyle or family reasons, but for the first time I'm seeing large numbers of FOs resigning and looking anywhere else rather than waiting for their commands.
This momentum appears to be building because of many factors but the profit share announcement, the time now required to command, the future fleet plans, the impending runway closures, the reduction in recruiting numbers, and DEFO recruitment to A380 have collectively created a very 'sour pill' within the last 6 months.
The feeling is that unless some big positive announcements regarding the future of the airline and each of the fleets come soon, the flow might start to quicken.
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Hainan Airlines A330 Captains, month on/month off is one option with them. 500hrs/year, bases at Beijing, Brussels, Berlin, Zurich, and Seattle. Go to jobs on the Flight Global website and approach a few agencies for further details and they'll send them through - simples!
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Increased Attrition
Anyone who thinks people are not leaving is dreaming. In the compound that I am in eight Captains have already left this year including five Trainers. All of these guys have a wealth of experience and have all left for very good jobs.
At my last RTGS the HR lady stated that the attrition was one to two percent and that the company was not worried about it as they have 2000 pilots in the Hold Pool. They should be!! It is not just the fact that alot of those guys and girls will have now found other jobs due to the fact that EK have not been recruiting but also the experience levels of those that they are taking on. If for instance the attrition increases with alot of Americans/Europeans leaving the management will probably just lower the entry requirements. This will then cause a problem down track as the new recruits will have less experience and will take longer to upgrade. No doubt this will work as the likes of AS etc will have retired before it becomes a problem for them.
After not receiving a bonus, constant fiddling with bidding/rosters, poorl leave arrangements and a complete lack of respect for seniority, morale is at an all time low. I personally believe that it has to get better soon. But of course I am dreaming just like EK management who believe all is Shangri La. Good luck to all who seek and find pastures new.
At my last RTGS the HR lady stated that the attrition was one to two percent and that the company was not worried about it as they have 2000 pilots in the Hold Pool. They should be!! It is not just the fact that alot of those guys and girls will have now found other jobs due to the fact that EK have not been recruiting but also the experience levels of those that they are taking on. If for instance the attrition increases with alot of Americans/Europeans leaving the management will probably just lower the entry requirements. This will then cause a problem down track as the new recruits will have less experience and will take longer to upgrade. No doubt this will work as the likes of AS etc will have retired before it becomes a problem for them.
After not receiving a bonus, constant fiddling with bidding/rosters, poorl leave arrangements and a complete lack of respect for seniority, morale is at an all time low. I personally believe that it has to get better soon. But of course I am dreaming just like EK management who believe all is Shangri La. Good luck to all who seek and find pastures new.
short flights long nights
I asked this question before and I will ask this (rhetorical) question again.If there are really 2000 pilots in the hold pool, why is it, every time I log on here, do I get an ad inviting me to apply to Emirates?
