Request for Ryanair new joiners info.
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Request for Ryanair new joiners info.
I am sure many will be thinking (and saying) that there is an abundance of information out there on this subject, and I agree that there is. However it is extremely difficult to work out which information is current as most of what I can find is at least a few years old.
With that in mind I ask the following questions:
What are the current (or most current) time scales for training as a first officer for Ryanair? How long does the TR take and how long does line training take (typically)?
I have researched the pay and using PPJN I wonder a couple of things. Is there any pay through line training? When is safety pilot release? When does the pay transition from that under 'SO' to that of 'FO'?
Again this is something that there is a lot of information about, but I can't be sure that things have not changed. Can someone give me a brief idea of what first year pay is like? Roughly how many hours can a new FO expect to do (understand that it is base dependent)?
Finally can anyone give a quick explanation of how the TR cost can be offset through the LTD company idea?
Many thanks to all who read and reply and your patience is all appreciated, I know these are much asked questions but I am hoping for the most current information.
With that in mind I ask the following questions:
What are the current (or most current) time scales for training as a first officer for Ryanair? How long does the TR take and how long does line training take (typically)?
I have researched the pay and using PPJN I wonder a couple of things. Is there any pay through line training? When is safety pilot release? When does the pay transition from that under 'SO' to that of 'FO'?
Again this is something that there is a lot of information about, but I can't be sure that things have not changed. Can someone give me a brief idea of what first year pay is like? Roughly how many hours can a new FO expect to do (understand that it is base dependent)?
Finally can anyone give a quick explanation of how the TR cost can be offset through the LTD company idea?
Many thanks to all who read and reply and your patience is all appreciated, I know these are much asked questions but I am hoping for the most current information.
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1. 2-2.5 months for Type Rating incl base check and license endorsement from IAA. Line training probably another 2-3 months depending on base and sectors required. Took me 6 months in total from TR start to end of line training.
2. No pay while with safety pilot (12-18 sectors max) then pay once he's released. SO ends at 500hrs. Pay bumps. Same at 1500hours.
3. First year pay is whatever per hour by 750-800 hours. You're cheap. You'll be worked. Expect to me out of base for one week a month while cheap. Due to offset of cost of type rating you will not be eligible for a lot of tax until the cost of the TR is paid back to you (see 4 below) and this will give you false illusion of earning lots more money which will disappear in year 2/3. Watch out for it. Budget for it by either saving or paying off your loan early with the extra cash you're netting. Go easy on buying the Breitling and the M3.
4. You form a LTD company. You pay the TR through the company. So essentially the company now owes you 35k because you've personally given the money to your company and it owes it back to you. This is one big business expense so everything earned up until the value of 35k (or whatever it is now) is essentially "tax free". You net way more than you would if you had to pay normal tax until the time as to which the company has fully paid you back via expenses as to the cost of the TR that you put into the company. Don't let this make you fall into the
I'm loaded' trap as described above.
This is all based on my information from over 4 years ago however but from I can see around the place it still stands. Open and welcome to corrections. Apologies if the explanation of the TR and company stuff is
(edit to update with out of base sentence)
2. No pay while with safety pilot (12-18 sectors max) then pay once he's released. SO ends at 500hrs. Pay bumps. Same at 1500hours.
3. First year pay is whatever per hour by 750-800 hours. You're cheap. You'll be worked. Expect to me out of base for one week a month while cheap. Due to offset of cost of type rating you will not be eligible for a lot of tax until the cost of the TR is paid back to you (see 4 below) and this will give you false illusion of earning lots more money which will disappear in year 2/3. Watch out for it. Budget for it by either saving or paying off your loan early with the extra cash you're netting. Go easy on buying the Breitling and the M3.
4. You form a LTD company. You pay the TR through the company. So essentially the company now owes you 35k because you've personally given the money to your company and it owes it back to you. This is one big business expense so everything earned up until the value of 35k (or whatever it is now) is essentially "tax free". You net way more than you would if you had to pay normal tax until the time as to which the company has fully paid you back via expenses as to the cost of the TR that you put into the company. Don't let this make you fall into the
I'm loaded' trap as described above.This is all based on my information from over 4 years ago however but from I can see around the place it still stands. Open and welcome to corrections. Apologies if the explanation of the TR and company stuff is
(edit to update with out of base sentence)
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Zyox, great info thank you very much!
One quick question is regarding the pay described on PPJN, it mentions a rate of (approximate figures as no access to site at this moment) ~35 euros/sbh as an SO with a 0-500h FO earning ~65 euros/sbh. What is this in reference to if SO ends after 500h only?
Many thanks again!
One quick question is regarding the pay described on PPJN, it mentions a rate of (approximate figures as no access to site at this moment) ~35 euros/sbh as an SO with a 0-500h FO earning ~65 euros/sbh. What is this in reference to if SO ends after 500h only?
Many thanks again!
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Edit: Publishing actual hourly rates might get me sued. Even by the new nice friendly Ryanair 
So in short those figures are close enough, SO = line training, FO = released onto line.
So in short those figures are close enough, SO = line training, FO = released onto line.
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sbh = Scheduled block hour.
EG. Stansted to Tenerife (sake of argument) is 4 hours there and 4 hours back.
So thats 2x4 block hours. Your SBH for that day is 8 hours.
This does not include the 45mins before departure when you are due in crew room. It does not include turn arounds. It does not include delays etc.
This is what you are paid from.
So that day is 8 SBH and you get exactly that even if the wind is and it takes 5 hours down and 4 hours back, 45min turnaround, and a 1 hour slot. Could end up very easily doing an 11.5 hour duty day for 8 hours pay. Such is the nature of the beast when dealing with SBH pay.
EG. Stansted to Tenerife (sake of argument) is 4 hours there and 4 hours back.
So thats 2x4 block hours. Your SBH for that day is 8 hours.
This does not include the 45mins before departure when you are due in crew room. It does not include turn arounds. It does not include delays etc.
This is what you are paid from.
So that day is 8 SBH and you get exactly that even if the wind is
and it takes 5 hours down and 4 hours back, 45min turnaround, and a 1 hour slot. Could end up very easily doing an 11.5 hour duty day for 8 hours pay. Such is the nature of the beast when dealing with SBH pay.
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Thanks for answering some of the questions I have always wondered. With regards to the company and the type rating, I have heard that you can claim back some of your training expenses also like CAA licensing fees? Also outside of the aviation world my parents are self employed and have a company and claim back the VAT on things like fuel expenses or laptops as a business expense, would the company you set up with Ryanair operate the same way? Thanks
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Just a small addition: even "cheap FO's" are flying more like 650 -700, don't personally know any FO's who flew more than around 720 in the last couple of years...
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Yup the 800 figure I've had personally for the last few years bar this one. This year is worse in UK/IRL but outside of that, where they haven't flooded the places with FOs on summer and winter contracts, FOs are busier. Point is as you get more senior as an FO you are worked less because you cost more. Simple low cost carrier tactics.
As for training costs you can't claim anything before the company was founded. Only once you've started as a director of this company thing are you allowed to claim. And you can claim travel/mileage/laptops/most things. It must be to do with the running of the business of course and you can't claim any travel to/from your home base, only stuff that is out of base.
This could all be a moot point because this is based off a 3-5 year old BRK contract and I have no idea what the new ones are like. There's talk of being directly employed by BRK now as a normal employee and then providing services to Ryanair. God only knows.
As for training costs you can't claim anything before the company was founded. Only once you've started as a director of this company thing are you allowed to claim. And you can claim travel/mileage/laptops/most things. It must be to do with the running of the business of course and you can't claim any travel to/from your home base, only stuff that is out of base.
This could all be a moot point because this is based off a 3-5 year old BRK contract and I have no idea what the new ones are like. There's talk of being directly employed by BRK now as a normal employee and then providing services to Ryanair. God only knows.
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I know FO's at all levels who are doing 800-850, not UK/IRL bases which are indeed looking like 700-750.
Last edited by Bearcat F8F; 18th Feb 2014 at 20:20.
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Mate of mine has been with Ryanair for just over 2 years. Stanstead based. Gets 850h/year apparently.
It's Stansted not Stanstead, same way as it's Ryanair not Ryan Air. A great way to get an application binned so I'm told
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Changed it to Stansted now, thanks.
Kilo, relax. I'm not applying to Ryanair. They can bin my imaginary application if they want
And I really don't care if it's 850 or 8.5 million hours. I was told 850 hours by a friend of mine who has no reason to lie about it that I can think of. Whether or not it's true is open to debate.
P.S. Just remembered - he was Madrid-based for 1.5 years at first so not really sure how much of the figure might be attributed to which airport.
Kilo, relax. I'm not applying to Ryanair. They can bin my imaginary application if they want
And I really don't care if it's 850 or 8.5 million hours. I was told 850 hours by a friend of mine who has no reason to lie about it that I can think of. Whether or not it's true is open to debate.
P.S. Just remembered - he was Madrid-based for 1.5 years at first so not really sure how much of the figure might be attributed to which airport.
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Is there anybody out there who can shed light on the finer details of the Storm and Brookfield contracts for new starters at Ryanair, such as the salary breakdown over the first couple of years and the claiming of travel costs through the Ltd company?
It would be great to hear from any recently joined FO’s who could give an idea of their monthly ‘take home’ amount and any tips and tricks for the first year.
It would be great to hear from any recently joined FO’s who could give an idea of their monthly ‘take home’ amount and any tips and tricks for the first year.
Last edited by micro_burst; 1st Mar 2014 at 08:00.
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Number Crunching
Hi all,
I’ve just been crunching the numbers regarding the take-home pay on RYR cadet contract (approx. for years 1, 2 and 3) based on PPJN and wondered if someone could let me know if I am missing anything here. I'm not requesting exact figures but want to make sure I'm on the right lines.
I’m not sure how accurate the below pay-rates are but according to PPJN they are somewhere around: 0-500 hours is approx. €30/sbh,>500 = €50/sbh and >1500 = €70 - based on 750 hours flying time a year:
Year 1 = (500 x 30) + (250 x 50) = €27,500
Year 2 = (750 x 50) = €37,500
Year 3 = (750 x 70) = €52,500
Using an FX rate of €1.25 = 1GBP (quite generous atpresent)
Year 1 = £22,000
Year 2 = £30,000
Year 3 = £42,000
And a tax rate of 15% for the first two years (owing toTR being an expense item) and 25% for year 3:
Year 1 =£18,700 £1,558/month
Year 2 = £25,500 £2,125/month
Year 3 = £35,700 £2,975/month
This doesn’t include paying off any debt from training, Type-Rating expense, LOL, hotels if based away from your home country, uniform, parking/commuting, medical etc.
Does this look about right? I really have no idea if this is accurate or not - these just my calculations based on info that is already out there.
Thanks all!
I’ve just been crunching the numbers regarding the take-home pay on RYR cadet contract (approx. for years 1, 2 and 3) based on PPJN and wondered if someone could let me know if I am missing anything here. I'm not requesting exact figures but want to make sure I'm on the right lines.
I’m not sure how accurate the below pay-rates are but according to PPJN they are somewhere around: 0-500 hours is approx. €30/sbh,>500 = €50/sbh and >1500 = €70 - based on 750 hours flying time a year:
Year 1 = (500 x 30) + (250 x 50) = €27,500
Year 2 = (750 x 50) = €37,500
Year 3 = (750 x 70) = €52,500
Using an FX rate of €1.25 = 1GBP (quite generous atpresent)
Year 1 = £22,000
Year 2 = £30,000
Year 3 = £42,000
And a tax rate of 15% for the first two years (owing toTR being an expense item) and 25% for year 3:
Year 1 =£18,700 £1,558/month
Year 2 = £25,500 £2,125/month
Year 3 = £35,700 £2,975/month
This doesn’t include paying off any debt from training, Type-Rating expense, LOL, hotels if based away from your home country, uniform, parking/commuting, medical etc.
Does this look about right? I really have no idea if this is accurate or not - these just my calculations based on info that is already out there.
Thanks all!
