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Old 20th Apr 2017, 12:33   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 49
Posts: 277
The only "special scheme" the company needs to terminate old ( or young) farts is a posted letter and 3 month notice.

Which is why it would have been better to accept a pay offer when it was on the table.

I told you so.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 12:37   #22 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 457
That "payrise" came with onerous strings attached... the membership clearly decided it wasn't worth it.

You can disagree or "told you so" as much as you like, but it doesn't change the basic facts of a democratically taken decision.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 13:27   #23 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Pole
Posts: 47
Agreed with above. STW stop being so defeatist, it just plays to the company and fence sitters.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 14:57   #24 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
. The only "special scheme" the company needs to terminate old ( or young) farts is a posted letter and 3 month notice.

Which is why it would have been better to accept.
If we can all be terminated with 3 months notice, then we have nothing to lose and should be going for as much as we can and NOT accepting the first crappy deal we're presented with.

Agree with the above posters, enough with being defeatist!
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 15:29   #25 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
The only "special scheme" the company needs to terminate old ( or young) farts is a posted letter and 3 month notice.

Which is why it would have been better to accept a pay offer when it was on the table.

I told you so.

In fact STW/Paul,
By being in industrial action it actually suspends COS clause 35.3 as per the GFBAF. So if job protection is what you're after (which being months away from retirement you're obviously not) then the status quo is a safe position to be in until the dust settles.
While they've been prepared to sack officers illegally before, I just don't see the current management wanting another 10 years of unfair dismissal claims. The ground has shifted. CX is no longer the flavor of the month in Hong Kong. The 49ers fiasco will look like a well managed strategy compared to a similar company action now.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 16:49   #26 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 49
Posts: 277
You can twist it as you like, it was wrong to reject the offer.

You know it, I know it, the company knows it.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 22:15   #27 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In a jet that's not so shiny anymore.
Posts: 1,206
Three months' notice anytime (or the turnstile not letting you in to Hello Kitty City- it's been done) or not, they still offered VSS in '99. Six months' salary for 40 pilots from what I remember; I am open to correction. The offer was over-subscribed.

STW, haven't you made enough money by voluntarily training hundreds of our cheap replacements and diluting our contract and bargaining position?

Last edited by Captain Dart; 20th Apr 2017 at 23:21.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 01:45   #28 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 229
My memory is a bit hazy so I may be incorrect on the following.

VSS was 1 months salary per year of service or 3 months salary per years remaining until retirement, whichever was less.

Some guys got approximately 1.5 years pay out of the deal. Most got about a years pay.

They were able to elect to work until the end of that year, or leave as early as possible.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 02:41   #29 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 127
why are we even discussing this? Cathay can't afford more early retirements
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 03:26   #30 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 49
Posts: 277
Why do you guys have this constant desire for wild abstract theories, grand philosophical discussions about wages for managers vs workers or other moral debates????

Can't you guys be ( just once!) be practical???

It is what it is.

The company has announced a cost cutting program.

Is it fair? Reasonable? Who cares!!!

We will not get the same offer again, we might possibly face cuts, we are losing out as we speak. Period.

I told you so.


PS Captain Dart, I am not a trainer, and never was. Nevertheless, I do not blame anyone in training for our own failures to sign a pay increase when the sun was still shining.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 03:43   #31 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the road
Posts: 62
Paul, you were a trainer for years.

Last edited by mr did; 21st Apr 2017 at 06:33.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 05:03   #32 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 49
Posts: 277
Why should I lie on an anonymous forum??? Insane!

I AM NOT PAUL !!!!!!!!

I don't even know who that is!
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 06:14   #33 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,198
STW is a cadet FO on the 747. He is a nice enough guy, but not especially bright. No offense, but somebody has to round out the bell curve.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 07:12   #34 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 12
Sully

Captain Chesley 'Sully' Sullenberger

Your quintessential ....... 'Old Fart'

Well trained, ex military with an exemplary service record.

Understands through IQ and experience, the value of excellent training and CRM. Becomes an expert in field well before 2009.

Joins Pacific Southwest Airlines in 1980 and gets restructured, re-branded and basically screwed from the start of his Airline career till he ends it himself in 2010.......He is frank in his disdain for airline management over those years, citing the damage done to both airlines and crew alike!

Never looses his cool.......

- The young crowd who flock to join CX on 'local' terms are 'enjoying' the results of THEIR decision to join on such deplorable conditions.......that by the way, WE Old Farts are trying to improve.......for the real needs and benefit of everyone!

- Suggesting that us Old Farts @ CX should now leave to make way for younger talent, is rude, ignorant, self serving, short sighted and will dilute the experience quotient within our cockpits even further than management have already deleteriously done so, in their manic chasing of lower costs / more profit / by any means / under any pretext / using any and all excuses and justifications!

208 seconds
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 07:53   #35 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 356
Runnymede,
I wish there was a "like" button for your post.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 13:49   #36 (permalink)


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Like button. Runners. Pushing that like button
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:26   #37 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Correct Runnymede!

While not an "old fart" yet, I'm certainly sandwiched below them and above our new generation of snowflakes. My goal is to emulate the good "old farts" while staying relatable to the millennial snowflakes, since they are the future CRM challenges. More reliance on automation will certainly be the standard as flying skills and solid backgrounds become more rare.

Many snowflakes simply didn't get any reasonable pre-CX experience. They think flying airplanes is about button pushing and dial spinning with the occasional padlock onto the flight directors at the expense of all else.

That said, some of the more experienced pilots don't do much better. Many of us have become very soft in our own entitlement, contrary to our backgrounds and sources of pride. "Old Farts" would do well to bring their thicker skin to work while snowflakes should be eating humble pie with a big steaming cup of STFU.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 23:51   #38 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 349
Excellent Runner.

I'm personally baffled by any proposition that sacking a bunch of minions can in any way help an organization whose profits have been blown by a boss betting poorly at the track (metaphorically speaking). Just doesn't make sense or address the root cause of the issues and seems, frankly, insane.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:13   #39 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep69 View Post
Just doesn't make sense or address the root cause of the issues and seems, frankly, insane.
NOTHING this bunch (of managers) do, or plan, makes any sense.

They ignore trends when they should address them.
They cut back when they should expand.
They cloister when they should engage.
It goes on. And on. And on.

Almost everything they do is a model of what NOT to do. Their "strategy" (if there is one) is 180 out of synchronization with trends, industry practice and common sense.

A new manager's M.O. is to do NOTHING that could rock the boat or risk a change, hanging on for dear life in a position they neither understand nor enjoy, just long enough to move on up the corporate ladder and reap the benefits of head office bonuses and a cushy life in the Cotswolds.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:43   #40 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt. Underpants View Post
A new manager's M.O. is to do NOTHING that could rock the boat or risk a change, hanging on for dear life in a position they neither understand nor enjoy, just long enough to move on up the corporate ladder and reap the benefits of head office bonuses and a cushy life in the Cotswolds.
And therein lies 90% (or more) of the problem. This truth is all prospective employees or shareholders need to know. That's why very little ever changes at CX until it's a crisis.
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