Qantas 744 Depressurisation
So it would be fair to say:
1. That some airlines change the oxy bottles when the pressure is low...for safety reasons?
2. And other airlines recharge the oxy bottles from a central remote charge point for economic reasons?
But doesn't QANTAS put safety and security first? Help me here. I am confused.
1. That some airlines change the oxy bottles when the pressure is low...for safety reasons?
2. And other airlines recharge the oxy bottles from a central remote charge point for economic reasons?
But doesn't QANTAS put safety and security first? Help me here. I am confused.
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So it would be fair to say:
1. That some airlines change the oxy bottles when the pressure is low...for safety reasons?
2. And other airlines recharge the oxy bottles from a central remote charge point for economic reasons?
But doesn't QANTAS put safety and security first? Help me here. I am confused.
1. That some airlines change the oxy bottles when the pressure is low...for safety reasons?
2. And other airlines recharge the oxy bottles from a central remote charge point for economic reasons?
But doesn't QANTAS put safety and security first? Help me here. I am confused.
Some might say there is more risk involved in disturbing the systems and changing bottles than there is in charging from a remote point - horses for courses
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eight16kreug - while your'e at it: (Post #868)
May I recommend the following to your observation/experience:
Mellow on the first
Ditch the second and third
The fourth - keep her!
On a slightly off-topic question:
Aren't Boeing and Airbus designed and built to meet FAA/JAA certification requirements? Aren't both flying over/on most of the continents?
Mellow on the first
Ditch the second and third
The fourth - keep her!
On a slightly off-topic question:
Aren't Boeing and Airbus designed and built to meet FAA/JAA certification requirements? Aren't both flying over/on most of the continents?
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"If it's not Boeing, I'm not going", was an industry tongue-in-cheek sales slogan; boeing used to give free stickers out
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Maintenance personnel used a nitrogen cart filled with nitrogen. No mixup there.
The problem was, they were using it to top up the oxygen tanks. And since the fittings didn't, well, fit, they exchanged them for ones that did.
Bernd
The problem was, they were using it to top up the oxygen tanks. And since the fittings didn't, well, fit, they exchanged them for ones that did.
Bernd
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Hi,
A common mistake that people make when trying to make something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools...
I hope those who exchanged the connections fittings are now discharged of all responsible job and are whipping the dust of the runway at Wagga Wagga.
Cheers.
And since the fittings didn't, well, fit, they exchanged them for ones that did.
I hope those who exchanged the connections fittings are now discharged of all responsible job and are whipping the dust of the runway at Wagga Wagga.
Cheers.
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Some might say there is more risk involved in disturbing the systems and changing bottles than there is in charging from a remote point - horses for courses
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Oxygen systems get loads of care and attention.
Nitrogen systems get much much less attention and find themselves in dirty, greasy,wet oily places, am sure they will be trying to find out if said aircraft or bottle/bottles were involved with the nitrogen misshapp !!!
Nitrogen systems get much much less attention and find themselves in dirty, greasy,wet oily places, am sure they will be trying to find out if said aircraft or bottle/bottles were involved with the nitrogen misshapp !!!
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That's probably one of the reasons we don't fill from the charging point, pressure low change a bottle
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Yes I agree with you in principle, and in fact in ARN we are not allowed oxygen charging rigs on the ramp. But the B744 pax oxy system has around 20 bottles. They are used in parallel, so that when the pressure is low you have to refill all the bottles at once. Maybe you keep 20 charged bottles in stock, I have one (for the crew). So if I had low pax oxy pressure on a B744, I would have to remove all the bottles and take them to the workshop and charge them one at a time. Oxy bottles charge very slowly because they can get hot. I would be much happier charging all 20 at once through an outside rig.
Could someone explain why Boeing would design such a heavy, complacated, maintenance intentsive and possibility dangerous system, when oxygen generators were available?
Could someone explain why Boeing would design such a heavy, complacated, maintenance intentsive and possibility dangerous system, when oxygen generators were available?
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Could someone explain why Boeing would design such a heavy, complacated, maintenance intentsive and possibility dangerous system, when oxygen generators were available?
Evertonian
Had a chat to the Brother in law last night...
1. He had a crying FA (don't know if its the same one from before) and this was when it was all happening. After thy'd levelled out, a more senior FA came along & gave her a duty which snapped her back into composure.
2. He had just been served a beer before it happened & when they did level out, not a drop had been spilled! Plunge my arse!
3. Note to QF & Crews: He said he had trouble understanding the announcements from the flight deck. Possibly due the masks, possibly a faulty PA as a result of the incident. Only every second or third word was clear.
4. He reiterated that the QF staff in MNL were excellent. They enacted an emergency plan & they were being assisted by staff from all other carriers (such as CX...possibly a local OneWorld agreement) They handled themselves well when confronted by a bunch of boisterous, adrenaline fuelled Aussies!!!
1. He had a crying FA (don't know if its the same one from before) and this was when it was all happening. After thy'd levelled out, a more senior FA came along & gave her a duty which snapped her back into composure.
2. He had just been served a beer before it happened & when they did level out, not a drop had been spilled! Plunge my arse!
3. Note to QF & Crews: He said he had trouble understanding the announcements from the flight deck. Possibly due the masks, possibly a faulty PA as a result of the incident. Only every second or third word was clear.
4. He reiterated that the QF staff in MNL were excellent. They enacted an emergency plan & they were being assisted by staff from all other carriers (such as CX...possibly a local OneWorld agreement) They handled themselves well when confronted by a bunch of boisterous, adrenaline fuelled Aussies!!!
This article makes some new claims and has a few previously unseen pictures:
The damage inside QF30 - Travel - smh.com.au
"electric cables cut" & "Pax were breathing just cabin air instead of oxygen through the masks"....
The damage inside QF30 - Travel - smh.com.au
"electric cables cut" & "Pax were breathing just cabin air instead of oxygen through the masks"....
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If the plane had been higher than 29,000 feet [8839 metres], there almost certainly would have been fatalities in the time it took to get down to 10,000 feet," an aviation expert said.
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Does anyone know what indications were presented on the flight deck as to the extent of the problem or did the crew think they had lost a door because of the rapid depressurisation. Would it have been prudent to shut down cabin air flow.
Must have been somewhat puzzling until they were on the ground.
Must have been somewhat puzzling until they were on the ground.
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Buster, re: #3- yes masks the most likely cause of garbled PA's... also, having heard the auto depressurisation PA on the ground a number of times, it's sufficiently loud in 'normal' circumstances but I doubt anyone would hear it very well what with people shouting, the step descent and the disturbed airflow....
If I recall correctly, one of the crew on the UAL 801 flight commented that she couldn't hear the crew member seated next to her, let alone anything else. (Different incident I know, but it probably gives an idea of just how much noise there might have been 'during the event')
Did your brother mention if it was more audible 'after' the descent (in level flight), maybe that will give an idication as to whether any improvement is needed....
Can anyone in the know tell me.... along with the auto announcement, does anything display on the pax screens aside from the 'fasten seatbelt' diagram (that is, if it doesn't, perhaps the steps for oxygen mask use should be displayed as well) I've never actually bothered to look at the screens when the announcement was playing on the ground...
If I recall correctly, one of the crew on the UAL 801 flight commented that she couldn't hear the crew member seated next to her, let alone anything else. (Different incident I know, but it probably gives an idea of just how much noise there might have been 'during the event')
Did your brother mention if it was more audible 'after' the descent (in level flight), maybe that will give an idication as to whether any improvement is needed....
Can anyone in the know tell me.... along with the auto announcement, does anything display on the pax screens aside from the 'fasten seatbelt' diagram (that is, if it doesn't, perhaps the steps for oxygen mask use should be displayed as well) I've never actually bothered to look at the screens when the announcement was playing on the ground...
Evertonian
LRH. He actually did mention that it was still garbled when they were told that masks were no longer required. As I mentioned, he's a seasoned traveller, ex AN CSO & Flight Service officer and not prone to exagerration.
When the crewed informed the punters that they were diverting, they didn't mention a destination however, the chap next to my BIL had the moving map screen on & it showed them turning to MNL. So, I'd say that there was no specific on screen warnings but you raise a good point. If it's difficult to hear or see in an emergency, that would be an excellent way to communicate to the great unwashed!
does anything display on the pax screens
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Great unwashed here! 
Improved emergency announcements to passengers could be a very useful outcome of this incident. LHR’s idea of automatically using IFE screens has huge potential.
Voice PAs are full of trip wires. Remember the BA 747 and the volcanic ash, all four quit in the cruise. The flight crew took an age to switch from Boom Mics to Mask - so, in the interval, PAs didn’t get through to the cabin. (Is switching automatic now?)
There has to be a better way. On PA volume levels I remember a flight out of Singapore, early 80s, oddly enough a QF 747. Boarding was complete but people were still attacking overheads. A taped PA came on - and it was deafening.
‘Stop what you are doing and listen’. So loud the passengers froze solid – and listened. It then went on the say that the Safety Brief would commence in one minute and if you didn’t pay attention you’d get a serious slap from a Flight Attendant.
I only heard it the once on Qantas and I wonder if it was an experiment that got knocked on the head by the PR people. Too scary perhaps? I liked it. The point is - PA Systems can produce a huge volume - if you want them to.
Improved emergency announcements to passengers could be a very useful outcome of this incident. LHR’s idea of automatically using IFE screens has huge potential.Voice PAs are full of trip wires. Remember the BA 747 and the volcanic ash, all four quit in the cruise. The flight crew took an age to switch from Boom Mics to Mask - so, in the interval, PAs didn’t get through to the cabin. (Is switching automatic now?)
There has to be a better way. On PA volume levels I remember a flight out of Singapore, early 80s, oddly enough a QF 747. Boarding was complete but people were still attacking overheads. A taped PA came on - and it was deafening.
‘Stop what you are doing and listen’. So loud the passengers froze solid – and listened. It then went on the say that the Safety Brief would commence in one minute and if you didn’t pay attention you’d get a serious slap from a Flight Attendant.
I only heard it the once on Qantas and I wonder if it was an experiment that got knocked on the head by the PR people. Too scary perhaps? I liked it. The point is - PA Systems can produce a huge volume - if you want them to.
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PA Systems can produce a huge volume - if you want them to.
Yes I think a simple addition of basic diagrams for this eventuality to the IFE would do the trick nicely... especially if said Auto announcement is only in English (can't recall it now but I think it can be done in other languages but I'm not sure if this is dependent on the route) and whether it's something which has to be manually done through the IFE control system... on newer aircraft I'm sure it's automatic but you just never know!
Something to the effect of the pictures on the safety card, flashing on the screen with maybe the words 'DO THIS NOW' in a few major languages might help...
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oxy generators
Oxygen generators as well as not giving a long supply are also dangerous in their own right, burning iron and sodium chlorite (I think) in a small canister to make oxygen is a risky business. They can get very hot and have been known to melt out of seat backs when not installed correctly.