Component Maintenance and B1 License
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Component Maintenance and B1 License
Hello 
I've been wanting to asking this question for a while, so I guess now is the time:
I have completed a one-year theoretical course of Basic Training for EASA Part 66 B1.1 and a 6-month practical course following it, on a Part 147 approved entity. Following this, I have been working in aircraft component maintenance (workshop) for over 5 years. I have attended specific training on some (but not all) ATAs of A320 type training, given by the company I currently work for.
My question is, with this background, what is the best path to attain a B1.1 License? Can I have one issued without having completed Type Training? Does my experience count for licenses, since it is aircraft component and not aircraft itself? My country's Aviation Authority isn't very helpful in clarifying this, would contacting EASA directly be of any help?
Among others, I've been doing Fuel Pumps, HPT/RACCs, HMUs, maintenance for the past five years but I feel the need to improve and expand my career and would like to know what are the possible and recommended paths ahead of me... Would like to hear some info from people with contact or knowledge of this. I've searched around and didn't find much regarding the component workshop reality... There must be other people making those parts serviceable around
I've been wanting to asking this question for a while, so I guess now is the time:
I have completed a one-year theoretical course of Basic Training for EASA Part 66 B1.1 and a 6-month practical course following it, on a Part 147 approved entity. Following this, I have been working in aircraft component maintenance (workshop) for over 5 years. I have attended specific training on some (but not all) ATAs of A320 type training, given by the company I currently work for.
My question is, with this background, what is the best path to attain a B1.1 License? Can I have one issued without having completed Type Training? Does my experience count for licenses, since it is aircraft component and not aircraft itself? My country's Aviation Authority isn't very helpful in clarifying this, would contacting EASA directly be of any help?
Among others, I've been doing Fuel Pumps, HPT/RACCs, HMUs, maintenance for the past five years but I feel the need to improve and expand my career and would like to know what are the possible and recommended paths ahead of me... Would like to hear some info from people with contact or knowledge of this. I've searched around and didn't find much regarding the component workshop reality... There must be other people making those parts serviceable around
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There are 2 routes to an EASA B1.1 Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Licence, whoch would be issued by your NAA without a type rating, usually known (in English) as a LWTR. When you have that, you can start adding type ratings, but not before, for the obvious reason that the rating needs to be applied to a licence.
Route 1 is to undergo a fully-approved Basic Training course, run in its entirety by a Training Organisation holding a Part 147 approval for basic training. This course MUST consist of 3 elements, Theoretical (ie classroom work on the Modules, and an examination for each Module), Practical Training (Carried out in the Training Organisation's own approved workshops) and On the Job Training (OJT) which must be carried out in a Part 145-approved MRO under the overall control of the Part 147 TO that provides the other 2 elements. The basic training course must be run over a minimum of 2,400 genuine instruction hours, including the OJT.
The OJT should cover all the main areas of an aircraft.
Route 2 is studying for and passing all the Module exams in a specified period (5 years??) under your own arrangements, ie study at home and taking the exams run by your NAA.
The difference is the length of work experience needed before you can apply for a licence. Under Route 1 when you have completed the Basic Training and have a Basic Training Certificate in your hand you can apply for a licence when you have at least 2 years work experience logged and signed off.
Under Route 2, you must have at least 5 years work experience logged, as well as all the Module examination certificates, before you can apply for a licence. But you do not need the Practical Training and OJT. (The extra 3 years work experience is in lieu of these).
Work experience is not OJT. OJT is a structured programme of training, working under supervision on live aircraft in a Part 145-approved environment. Work experience is work carried as an unlicensed member of the maintenance staff, under the organisation's MOE so far as supervision and certification of work are concerned.
So far so good. Perhaps you knew all that. Reading your post, it seems that you may have done the Modules and Practical Training elements of a fully-approved Basic Training course, but not the OJT, at least not the OJT done as EASA requires.
In that situation, if you paid money for the Theoretical and Practical Training, you were robbed, to an extent, if you thought you were doing a fully-approved course (ie Route 1). Without the OJT, there was no point in doing the Practical Training (so far as EASA regulations are concerned!) because you would not receive a Basic Training certificate, and were therefore on Route 2.
I am assuming that you have passed all the Module examinations, so you are well down the road for Route 2. (You need a certificate issued by the Part 147 TO for them all, either one for each Module, or one listing all the Modules.)
I agree that your problem lies with whether your work experience will satisfy the NAA, as it is only on components. I simply don't know whether the "specific training on some (but not all) ATAs of A320 type training" will count as work experience, and maybe another ppruner will know.
Whatever the answer, unless you can get a Basic Training Certificate from the Part 147 organisation you did the Modules and Practical with, you should aim for the B1.1 licence via Route 2, and get your NAA to advise specifically on what work experience you still need to obtain (if any) before you can apply for it. And then go for that, with a new employer if necessary. I realise that they are not being helpful, but they will accept or reject your application, and they must tell you what's needed. If they fail to do so, you can (and should) contact EASA to complain about that, but not to get the answers. If you have to do that, be prepared for a lot of bureaucratic time-wasting and delay, but persist.
That licence will be the foundation of the career you want; when you have it you can decide on how you want to use it, and what type ratings you need to get.
And if I were you, if the Part 147 organisation you were with did not explain all the above properly, find a good lawyer to recover your money. But wiser heads may say it's not worth the hassle, forget it and move on! And perhaps they did.
There are 2 routes to an EASA B1.1 Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Licence, whoch would be issued by your NAA without a type rating, usually known (in English) as a LWTR. When you have that, you can start adding type ratings, but not before, for the obvious reason that the rating needs to be applied to a licence.
Route 1 is to undergo a fully-approved Basic Training course, run in its entirety by a Training Organisation holding a Part 147 approval for basic training. This course MUST consist of 3 elements, Theoretical (ie classroom work on the Modules, and an examination for each Module), Practical Training (Carried out in the Training Organisation's own approved workshops) and On the Job Training (OJT) which must be carried out in a Part 145-approved MRO under the overall control of the Part 147 TO that provides the other 2 elements. The basic training course must be run over a minimum of 2,400 genuine instruction hours, including the OJT.
The OJT should cover all the main areas of an aircraft.
Route 2 is studying for and passing all the Module exams in a specified period (5 years??) under your own arrangements, ie study at home and taking the exams run by your NAA.
The difference is the length of work experience needed before you can apply for a licence. Under Route 1 when you have completed the Basic Training and have a Basic Training Certificate in your hand you can apply for a licence when you have at least 2 years work experience logged and signed off.
Under Route 2, you must have at least 5 years work experience logged, as well as all the Module examination certificates, before you can apply for a licence. But you do not need the Practical Training and OJT. (The extra 3 years work experience is in lieu of these).
Work experience is not OJT. OJT is a structured programme of training, working under supervision on live aircraft in a Part 145-approved environment. Work experience is work carried as an unlicensed member of the maintenance staff, under the organisation's MOE so far as supervision and certification of work are concerned.
So far so good. Perhaps you knew all that. Reading your post, it seems that you may have done the Modules and Practical Training elements of a fully-approved Basic Training course, but not the OJT, at least not the OJT done as EASA requires.
In that situation, if you paid money for the Theoretical and Practical Training, you were robbed, to an extent, if you thought you were doing a fully-approved course (ie Route 1). Without the OJT, there was no point in doing the Practical Training (so far as EASA regulations are concerned!) because you would not receive a Basic Training certificate, and were therefore on Route 2.
I am assuming that you have passed all the Module examinations, so you are well down the road for Route 2. (You need a certificate issued by the Part 147 TO for them all, either one for each Module, or one listing all the Modules.)
I agree that your problem lies with whether your work experience will satisfy the NAA, as it is only on components. I simply don't know whether the "specific training on some (but not all) ATAs of A320 type training" will count as work experience, and maybe another ppruner will know.
Whatever the answer, unless you can get a Basic Training Certificate from the Part 147 organisation you did the Modules and Practical with, you should aim for the B1.1 licence via Route 2, and get your NAA to advise specifically on what work experience you still need to obtain (if any) before you can apply for it. And then go for that, with a new employer if necessary. I realise that they are not being helpful, but they will accept or reject your application, and they must tell you what's needed. If they fail to do so, you can (and should) contact EASA to complain about that, but not to get the answers. If you have to do that, be prepared for a lot of bureaucratic time-wasting and delay, but persist.
That licence will be the foundation of the career you want; when you have it you can decide on how you want to use it, and what type ratings you need to get.
And if I were you, if the Part 147 organisation you were with did not explain all the above properly, find a good lawyer to recover your money. But wiser heads may say it's not worth the hassle, forget it and move on! And perhaps they did.
Last edited by Capot; 27th Apr 2015 at 22:16.
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Capot, many thanks for your excellent and concise answer. I feel more firmly on this now.
I have a Basic Training Certificate. I had 6 months of what "can" be qualified as OJT. However, from peer experience, it looks like my NAA doesn't consider my 5 year component maintenance as accountable for experience requisites to the EASA B1.1. Again from peer experience, my NAA issued some ICAO licenses not long ago for people in my situation. Those licenses could be converted later to EASA, but it seems the NAA dropped this policy. I will go personally on them to clarify this and the whole experience thing (from MY experience, uninformed peer experience isn't always the most reliable source).
So by having the Basic Training only, I guess the job market isn't very open for me, right? Should I consider myself as a uncertified AMT?
Don't get me wrong, I like my current job and am happy with it. However, troubled times might be near for my company, and I feel the urge to protect myself for the future. Not having the license worries me, specially since I don't find job openings for aircraft component maintenance...
I have a Basic Training Certificate. I had 6 months of what "can" be qualified as OJT. However, from peer experience, it looks like my NAA doesn't consider my 5 year component maintenance as accountable for experience requisites to the EASA B1.1. Again from peer experience, my NAA issued some ICAO licenses not long ago for people in my situation. Those licenses could be converted later to EASA, but it seems the NAA dropped this policy. I will go personally on them to clarify this and the whole experience thing (from MY experience, uninformed peer experience isn't always the most reliable source).
So by having the Basic Training only, I guess the job market isn't very open for me, right? Should I consider myself as a uncertified AMT?
Don't get me wrong, I like my current job and am happy with it. However, troubled times might be near for my company, and I feel the urge to protect myself for the future. Not having the license worries me, specially since I don't find job openings for aircraft component maintenance...
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Since you have the Basic Training Certificate it would be a terrible waste of all your work not to get the 2 years work experience you now need.
Why give up now? Yes, you'll have to work unlicensed, for peanuts maybe, but when you get the licence it will be worth it.
Of course you should go for the 2 years. Get a job in a primary maintenance organisation working on large aircraft (ideally with A1 Rating), explain your objectives to them, and log every task you are involved with with full details of the aircraft, task and reference, ATA number, etc etc so that you have a complete and auditable record. Do whatever you have to do to get the NAA to say that this is what they want to see, and if not, what they do want.
There's a lot more information about work experience in Part 66; you should read it up before going to the NAA.
Good Luck!
By the way, what is the Part 147 Approval Number on your certificate?
Why give up now? Yes, you'll have to work unlicensed, for peanuts maybe, but when you get the licence it will be worth it.
Of course you should go for the 2 years. Get a job in a primary maintenance organisation working on large aircraft (ideally with A1 Rating), explain your objectives to them, and log every task you are involved with with full details of the aircraft, task and reference, ATA number, etc etc so that you have a complete and auditable record. Do whatever you have to do to get the NAA to say that this is what they want to see, and if not, what they do want.
There's a lot more information about work experience in Part 66; you should read it up before going to the NAA.
Good Luck!
By the way, what is the Part 147 Approval Number on your certificate?
Last edited by Capot; 28th Apr 2015 at 07:43.
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I sent you a PM regarding the Approval Number, Capot.
I guess I will have to consider a move if I am to pursue the License, then. What are the places to look for employment offers? Most I find refer to A&P B1.1 License holder, and I fail at that for now. Am I a "fitter" (seen some job ads with this term) or something else?
I guess I will have to consider a move if I am to pursue the License, then. What are the places to look for employment offers? Most I find refer to A&P B1.1 License holder, and I fail at that for now. Am I a "fitter" (seen some job ads with this term) or something else?
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Use of words varies, in English at least. There is no official (EASA) definition of any category of aircraft maintenance worker below "Licensed AME". Some people/countries refer to "mechanics" meaning unlicensed staff, while "engineers" refers to the licensed elite, ie AMEs. But in the USA a "mechanic" has a license, and can certify.
"Fitter" probably has its origins in the military, English-speaking of coourse.
Probably the best description is unlicensed fitter or mechanic.
If anyone has a better-informed answer I would be happy to defer!
"Fitter" probably has its origins in the military, English-speaking of coourse.
Probably the best description is unlicensed fitter or mechanic.
If anyone has a better-informed answer I would be happy to defer!
