QANTAS Engineering Apprenticeship
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doing what you love is great but it doesn't give you a standard of living,when you mates are driving new cars every few years and you show up to work in your 15 yr old car,you will think back to this topic and think **** what have i done.
I too loved aircraft and now i earn 3 times as much as i did as a LAME,but it's in retail
I too loved aircraft and now i earn 3 times as much as i did as a LAME,but it's in retail
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Good luck Ljones. If your lucky enough to still have a job out of your time you will probably end up adjusting meal trays for the rest of your life. 10 years ago I might have recommended this job, but not today. Theres more money in building or plumbing. Best of luck anyhow.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Agree,
I had a top apprentice, who instead of getting an offer at Avionics, where he should be, was offered a position at QDS, Richmond or a position on a Cabin Interior Crew, despite my complaints to Management. He now adjusts meal trays instead of fixing Avionic defects (did many months in Mods and knows more up to date stuff than I do). What a waste of talent. Did Management ask the Seniors LAME’s on the floor about his knowledge and ability, NOT ON YOUR LIFE, just some d!ck non trade interviewer who would know nothing about his history, knowledge and ability. It is just another disgrace from ACS….
W.T.F.Is.Going.On.
D!ckheads ?????
I had a top apprentice, who instead of getting an offer at Avionics, where he should be, was offered a position at QDS, Richmond or a position on a Cabin Interior Crew, despite my complaints to Management. He now adjusts meal trays instead of fixing Avionic defects (did many months in Mods and knows more up to date stuff than I do). What a waste of talent. Did Management ask the Seniors LAME’s on the floor about his knowledge and ability, NOT ON YOUR LIFE, just some d!ck non trade interviewer who would know nothing about his history, knowledge and ability. It is just another disgrace from ACS….
W.T.F.Is.Going.On.
D!ckheads ?????
Join Date: Nov 2007
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just great!
hey guys,
I recently applied for the Qantas Engineering Apprenticeship, and I got a phone call last Friday about the the Aptitude Test that commences on Saturday 17th November 2007 at 09:00 in Sydney. I googled 'QANTAS Engineering Apprenticeship' with hope to find some more information about it, but after reading this topic I’m totally confused and disappointed somehow.
I live in Tasmania and career options here are limited, but that's not the point. I really would like to become an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer and prefer to work on the Helicopters, but as a newie don't know where to go and look for an apprenticeship. If I'd like to go to school and do a course, than I would still need a job provider to get enrolled. Qantas was one of the providers that gave me a reply. NOw I have no ideas should I stay or should I go !!!
but I just don't want to waste another year doing grocery, hospitality or whatever...
I'd finally like to get on track and do my trade.
did you guys apply somewhere else besides qantas?
When it come to make your life time decisions and choose the right options without screwing the rest of your short life,happens.
I recently applied for the Qantas Engineering Apprenticeship, and I got a phone call last Friday about the the Aptitude Test that commences on Saturday 17th November 2007 at 09:00 in Sydney. I googled 'QANTAS Engineering Apprenticeship' with hope to find some more information about it, but after reading this topic I’m totally confused and disappointed somehow.
I live in Tasmania and career options here are limited, but that's not the point. I really would like to become an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer and prefer to work on the Helicopters, but as a newie don't know where to go and look for an apprenticeship. If I'd like to go to school and do a course, than I would still need a job provider to get enrolled. Qantas was one of the providers that gave me a reply. NOw I have no ideas should I stay or should I go !!!
but I just don't want to waste another year doing
grocery, hospitality or whatever... I'd finally like to get on track and do my trade.
did you guys apply somewhere else besides qantas?
When it come to make your life time decisions and choose the right options without screwing the rest of your short life,
happens.
Join Date: May 2007
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here's the lowdown
OK all....
It is true that QF management are idiots. That's what happens when people get performance bonuses...they will do anything to get it, because they know they won't be there in a few years to sort out the mess they create...
The biggest single issue with QF is the number of people in it for themselves who can and do hide behind the HUGE bureaucracy...meaning, there are so many people with an inflated opinion of their own importance, but when the **** hits the fan, trying to find the people responsible is impossible....
QF train apprentices very well, the bonus is it's a company that has a good reputation, despite the truth from the workforce...
You will hear all sorts of doom and gloom...at the end of your time you may be lucky and be one of the chosen few, but any other employer in the industry will look favourably on your training...
As an apprentice, you should do your basics whilst doing your apprenticeship, the company will reimburse you, and it puts you in great stead with the outside world of aviation.
You can go anywhere in the industry with the training.
The days of earning double the average wage are long gone though.
The rest of the world has caught up and in many cases surpassed the QF engineer.
But one day all the old buggers at the top have to retire.....
PS Consider Queensland Aviation School and read Friday's Australian newspaper Aviation section....and ring people in the ads....asks questions and most people are decent and will give answers
There is a whole world out there...QF is just a small part of it
It is true that QF management are idiots. That's what happens when people get performance bonuses...they will do anything to get it, because they know they won't be there in a few years to sort out the mess they create...
The biggest single issue with QF is the number of people in it for themselves who can and do hide behind the HUGE bureaucracy...meaning, there are so many people with an inflated opinion of their own importance, but when the **** hits the fan, trying to find the people responsible is impossible....
QF train apprentices very well, the bonus is it's a company that has a good reputation, despite the truth from the workforce...
You will hear all sorts of doom and gloom...at the end of your time you may be lucky and be one of the chosen few, but any other employer in the industry will look favourably on your training...
As an apprentice, you should do your basics whilst doing your apprenticeship, the company will reimburse you, and it puts you in great stead with the outside world of aviation.
You can go anywhere in the industry with the training.
The days of earning double the average wage are long gone though.
The rest of the world has caught up and in many cases surpassed the QF engineer.
But one day all the old buggers at the top have to retire.....
PS Consider Queensland Aviation School and read Friday's Australian newspaper Aviation section....and ring people in the ads....asks questions and most people are decent and will give answers
There is a whole world out there...QF is just a small part of it
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what rubbish,you will not be held in any regard you will be like the rest of the aviation industry engineers,screwed,i to was a lame in Heavy maint and the best i could get after the lay offs last year was an AME position earing 35k per ye base,and thats with 20 yrs industry experience,don't waste your life look to a career with a future,and it's not aircraft maintenance.
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I live in Tasmania and career options here are limited, but that's not the point. I really would like to become an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer and prefer to work on the Helicopters, but as a newie don't know where to go and look for an apprenticeship. If I'd like to go to school and do a course, than I would still need a job provider to get enrolled. Qantas was one of the providers that gave me a reply. NOw I have no ideas should I stay or should I go !!!
If you are that way inclined with helicopters, why not try an apprenticeship with the Australian Defence Force (ADF), particularly the Army or the Navy. The Defence Force would be an excellent training opportunity, particularly with the new hardware that is coming online in the next few years, combined with working on cutting edge miltary technology, job security and travel.
The Navy in particular are crying out for aircraft and avionics technicians (all rotary wing), to a point where the entrance standards are substantially lower than their Army and Air Force counterparts. And the big $$$$$ in the Navy while at sea
, not for everyone though.However, over the Tasman in Victoria there is also a newly established John Holland Aviation Services (JHAS) -www.jhas.com.au, at Melbourne Airport. JHAS have the capacity to maintain both civilian and military aircraft as well, so that should prove interesting.
Best of luck, but on a final note, QANTAS apprentice "administration"
are depressingly useless so I would give them the big flick. Once again, try either the ADF or some Commercial/GA companies over on the mainland. P.S.> Have you tried the Yellow Pages under Aviation?
Cheers,
Last edited by Airspire; 15th Nov 2007 at 10:54.
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Has anyone had response for 2008 Qantas apprenticeship opportunity
Hey, just wondering has anyone heard any response from Qantas for 2008 apprenticeship intake? I sent my application form two weeks ago
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UNDERGROUND FLAVA your 16 and already showing signs of intelligent life,you should take instruction very well with this attitude and really propel yourself in this carer of aircraft maintenance,your attitude should determine your altitude ,d!ckhead
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IMHO
I would not advocate applying for any position in engineering in aviation.
Management see engineering as an expensive nuisance and is treated as such. (Pilots in Oz also in the accountants gun sights)
Grassmere Avenue's post is true for when I did my apprenticeship but sadly no longer the case. You end up jack of all trades master of none and you are not accredited or qualified to do anything else.
Once you have completed your training you have a life of 24 hour 7 day shift work ahead of you. Which is Not as glamorous as it sounds.
James russell. I have known at least 6 apprentices with same career aspirations as your self. All keen to learn which is refreshing but all bar 1 were not keen to do. The thing about maintenance engineering is learning the system, how to fix it and how to do it more efficiently next time. The would be pilots in my experience were not interested in rounding this part of their skill set as they thought they would not need it. Wasted my time.Please don't be one of them.
If I wanted to fly and was willing to do a trade, pick electrician or plumber. You will be well paid plus you can do cash jobs to pay for your flying. Do a diploma in business aviation and go from there.
If you end up in the sticks doing flying work to get your hours, there is always work for building trades in rural areas and not so much for an inexperienced aircraft engineer especially in GA. Where your big plane experience is worth nothing until you can prove otherwise. And you will probably have to prove it for no wages.
(not sure but I think the current QF apprenticeship is big plane only and has GA stuff removed from curriculum)
Last but not least QF have a terrible reputation for how it treats its apprentices. In 95 they sacked a whole year of 4th year end apprentices and have not been able fill apprentice vacancies since. As someone mentioned above they are looking for many apprentices, but they can't get enough applications to fill the numbers. eg Back when I applied 20 something years ago they had over 2000 aplicants for 60 jobs without advertising.
Now with advertising they cant fill the positions open.
ACS recently told all their AMEs that there was no hope of progression to becoming licensed, so their career is now stifled subsequently many AMEs and some LAMEs are leaving at a rate never seen before at 1 per week.
For mine. I am in and wish I could get out, but the road for any new starters is completely different to the one I travelled which I believe will be much less rewarding in job satisfaction and monetarily.
Look before leap
I would not advocate applying for any position in engineering in aviation.
Management see engineering as an expensive nuisance and is treated as such. (Pilots in Oz also in the accountants gun sights)
Grassmere Avenue's post is true for when I did my apprenticeship but sadly no longer the case. You end up jack of all trades master of none and you are not accredited or qualified to do anything else.
Once you have completed your training you have a life of 24 hour 7 day shift work ahead of you. Which is Not as glamorous as it sounds.
James russell. I have known at least 6 apprentices with same career aspirations as your self. All keen to learn which is refreshing but all bar 1 were not keen to do. The thing about maintenance engineering is learning the system, how to fix it and how to do it more efficiently next time. The would be pilots in my experience were not interested in rounding this part of their skill set as they thought they would not need it. Wasted my time.Please don't be one of them.
If I wanted to fly and was willing to do a trade, pick electrician or plumber. You will be well paid plus you can do cash jobs to pay for your flying. Do a diploma in business aviation and go from there.
If you end up in the sticks doing flying work to get your hours, there is always work for building trades in rural areas and not so much for an inexperienced aircraft engineer especially in GA. Where your big plane experience is worth nothing until you can prove otherwise. And you will probably have to prove it for no wages.
(not sure but I think the current QF apprenticeship is big plane only and has GA stuff removed from curriculum)
Last but not least QF have a terrible reputation for how it treats its apprentices. In 95 they sacked a whole year of 4th year end apprentices and have not been able fill apprentice vacancies since. As someone mentioned above they are looking for many apprentices, but they can't get enough applications to fill the numbers. eg Back when I applied 20 something years ago they had over 2000 aplicants for 60 jobs without advertising.
Now with advertising they cant fill the positions open.
ACS recently told all their AMEs that there was no hope of progression to becoming licensed, so their career is now stifled subsequently many AMEs and some LAMEs are leaving at a rate never seen before at 1 per week.
For mine. I am in and wish I could get out, but the road for any new starters is completely different to the one I travelled which I believe will be much less rewarding in job satisfaction and monetarily.
Look before leap
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Not QF please.
I agree with Bolty, do it but not at QF anymore. No chance of progression, just slave labor with no respect. Go anywhere else, it is a good job but you need management that recognises your value.
S_cct
S_cct
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James Russell and marek s. tas,
Sorry boys - but Bolty speaks the truth. Please don't waste a good proportion of your early working careers by starting at Qantas. You both sound young and keen and you won't be well served by being at Qantas. The training is a distant faded shadow of what I received when I started in the late 80's. The jet base in Sydney is a rickety old skeleton of what was once a grand mini city of aircraft and component/engine maintenance. What's left now (after the accountants were allowed to take over the world) is barely enough for those of us left to keep the current fleet in the air. Some areas that I spent time in and learning during my apprenticeship were an engine shop that stripped and rebuilt up to 6 types of high bypass fan engines, 2 types of turbo prop engines, a turbo prop test-cell, a workshop that overhauled all the major engine components - yes, i got to strip and rebuild starters, fuel control units, generators, pumps, valves, motors etc. there was a propellor overhaul section, a chair maintenance 'Bay', a complete fibreglass workshop, 4 sheetmetal shops, a 'survival' section where escape slide/rafts & lifejackets were overhauled, a wheel & brake overhaul section, major maintenance on 767, 747, 747-400, RAAF Hercules C130, RAAF 707..........the list goes on. NONE of this will be available to you!
The training was unavoidable and relentless. It was a system of training that was fantastic at turning out engineers who had a great base for going on and are now the ones keeping the aircraft and the line stations running. Then accountants and globalisation arrived one day and now all this stuff has been "relocated" "downsized" "rationalised" "outsourced" "re-directed" and "put out to tender". As I said, with our newfound lack of resources, we're hard pressed to maintain our fleet to any sort of decent standard let alone have any resources or time/facilities to provide new people a decent shot at training. As with everywhere else in " the current climate" , the almighty dollar rules and it's all about "minimal" cost and minimum everything else.
As an example, for the introduction of the Airbus A380, Qantas will be training approx 18-24 people on the aircraft. If this is the level of engineering input that Qantas believe is adequate for their "Pride of the Fleet" where do you think that will leave you?
There have also been persistent rumours for years of "Qantas, the airline" spinning/selling off engineering and/or making it a subsiduary. Very soon you may find yourself not working for Qantas, but 'Red Rat Low Cost Maintenance Services."
Yep, when I want to replace a titanium duct because it's damaged, I "cost" the airline money. There is pretty much nothing I do that "makes" money for Qantas so the numbercounters just want to get rid of engineering altogether.
Please listen to blokes like me and Bolty who have been very well trained in this industry and have seen the gradual (and lately, steep) decline in the engineering arm of Qantas. People such as yourselves who are young and keen, in fact keen enough to seek out web chatrooms to find out about a potential career should direct your energies toward a skill/trade that will serve you better in making some progression through life.
Obviously aviation is an interest, if not a passion for you, so try to find a way to incorporate it in your life as a hobby/sidelight rather than "a job" as an aircraft engineer - you will only be dissapointed.
Trust me - (hundreds of people do each day with their lives) I'm not trying to burst your bubble or be negative - MY job is good and the pay is still adequate - unfortunately for you, at Qantas currently, there is a snowflakes chance in hell of you coming close to achieving the same level of training/pay under the current system.
You must have another passion or interest, why not try Formula 1 Driver or rockstar?
Sorry boys - but Bolty speaks the truth. Please don't waste a good proportion of your early working careers by starting at Qantas. You both sound young and keen and you won't be well served by being at Qantas. The training is a distant faded shadow of what I received when I started in the late 80's. The jet base in Sydney is a rickety old skeleton of what was once a grand mini city of aircraft and component/engine maintenance. What's left now (after the accountants were allowed to take over the world) is barely enough for those of us left to keep the current fleet in the air. Some areas that I spent time in and learning during my apprenticeship were an engine shop that stripped and rebuilt up to 6 types of high bypass fan engines, 2 types of turbo prop engines, a turbo prop test-cell, a workshop that overhauled all the major engine components - yes, i got to strip and rebuild starters, fuel control units, generators, pumps, valves, motors etc. there was a propellor overhaul section, a chair maintenance 'Bay', a complete fibreglass workshop, 4 sheetmetal shops, a 'survival' section where escape slide/rafts & lifejackets were overhauled, a wheel & brake overhaul section, major maintenance on 767, 747, 747-400, RAAF Hercules C130, RAAF 707..........the list goes on. NONE of this will be available to you!
The training was unavoidable and relentless. It was a system of training that was fantastic at turning out engineers who had a great base for going on and are now the ones keeping the aircraft and the line stations running. Then accountants and globalisation arrived one day and now all this stuff has been "relocated" "downsized" "rationalised" "outsourced" "re-directed" and "put out to tender". As I said, with our newfound lack of resources, we're hard pressed to maintain our fleet to any sort of decent standard let alone have any resources or time/facilities to provide new people a decent shot at training. As with everywhere else in " the current climate" , the almighty dollar rules and it's all about "minimal" cost and minimum everything else.
As an example, for the introduction of the Airbus A380, Qantas will be training approx 18-24 people on the aircraft. If this is the level of engineering input that Qantas believe is adequate for their "Pride of the Fleet" where do you think that will leave you?
There have also been persistent rumours for years of "Qantas, the airline" spinning/selling off engineering and/or making it a subsiduary. Very soon you may find yourself not working for Qantas, but 'Red Rat Low Cost Maintenance Services."
Management see engineering as an expensive nuisance and is treated as such.
Please listen to blokes like me and Bolty who have been very well trained in this industry and have seen the gradual (and lately, steep) decline in the engineering arm of Qantas. People such as yourselves who are young and keen, in fact keen enough to seek out web chatrooms to find out about a potential career should direct your energies toward a skill/trade that will serve you better in making some progression through life.
Obviously aviation is an interest, if not a passion for you, so try to find a way to incorporate it in your life as a hobby/sidelight rather than "a job" as an aircraft engineer - you will only be dissapointed.
Trust me - (hundreds of people do each day with their lives) I'm not trying to burst your bubble or be negative - MY job is good and the pay is still adequate - unfortunately for you, at Qantas currently, there is a snowflakes chance in hell of you coming close to achieving the same level of training/pay under the current system.
You must have another passion or interest, why not try Formula 1 Driver or rockstar?
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im an avionics apprentice and go to school with the qantas apprentices, and would have to say that im getting a better apprenticeship than they are, just because its a big airline, it doesnt mean its all the goods.
Another person in my class is working as an avionics apprentace for an oil company and is earing around the $800 mark a week (1st year BTW).
Another person in my class is working as an avionics apprentace for an oil company and is earing around the $800 mark a week (1st year BTW).
Last edited by SBR_RV; 6th Oct 2009 at 22:34.
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I echo the sentiments of Bolty and Spanner Turner.
What I would recommend is apply and take the apprenticeship if its offered(in lieu of any better offer) but don't stop looking for other options.
Your opportunities are very limited in QF (for the forseeable future anyway). This MAY change but don't hold your breath. If you get the job you should be prepared to ditch them if you find a better option (they won't hesitate to ditch you).
Personally, I have a had great training and opportunities at QF over the last 20 years but I took the option of leaving for precisly that reason. Limited future career prospects within Qantas.
PS its not too late to leave Bolty- I love not working nighshift and weekends anymore. If your out of work for longer than a few weeks I will be very surprised.
What I would recommend is apply and take the apprenticeship if its offered(in lieu of any better offer) but don't stop looking for other options.
Your opportunities are very limited in QF (for the forseeable future anyway). This MAY change but don't hold your breath. If you get the job you should be prepared to ditch them if you find a better option (they won't hesitate to ditch you).
Personally, I have a had great training and opportunities at QF over the last 20 years but I took the option of leaving for precisly that reason. Limited future career prospects within Qantas.
PS its not too late to leave Bolty- I love not working nighshift and weekends anymore. If your out of work for longer than a few weeks I will be very surprised.
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PS its not too late to leave Bolty- I love not working nighshift and weekends anymore. If your out of work for longer than a few weeks I will be very surprised.
Another person in my class is working as an avionics apprentace for an oil company and is earing around the $800 mark a week
Thinking of venturing down this road myself unless numbskull get me a high paying gig at his place...
Last edited by Bolty McBolt; 25th Nov 2007 at 06:38.
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The only problem with what I'm doing now is that I drive keyboard 90% of the time these days.
Its not very exciting but it pays well and you don't get the "Operational stress" that LAMES have trying to fix broken planes with minimal spares, downtime, manpower etc.
Bolty with your experience you should be able to pick up either contract or full time work in the Defence industry around the $75 -$90k mark for Mon-Fri work. (I know 1 guy is on $57 p/hour and he's not particularly special)It depends on how good a deal you can negotiate for yourself. Plenty of QF people have found work at Garden Is.
PM me next time your in town and we'll catch up for a beer
Its not very exciting but it pays well and you don't get the "Operational stress" that LAMES have trying to fix broken planes with minimal spares, downtime, manpower etc.
Bolty with your experience you should be able to pick up either contract or full time work in the Defence industry around the $75 -$90k mark for Mon-Fri work. (I know 1 guy is on $57 p/hour and he's not particularly special)It depends on how good a deal you can negotiate for yourself. Plenty of QF people have found work at Garden Is.
PM me next time your in town and we'll catch up for a beer
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This sounds interesting.. Is this person working on helicopters
Thinking of venturing down this road myself unless numbskull get me a high paying gig at his place...
Thinking of venturing down this road myself unless numbskull get me a high paying gig at his place...
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2008 QANTAS apprenticeships
Hey guys,
just wondering if anyone who visits this forum has made it to the medical/police check stage of their QANTAS AME apprenticeship application. I have! fingers crossed for myself and everyone else. Although, if the the comments of others that suggest QANTAS should not be cosidered as a choice of employer for their given reasons are true, then perhaps I should terminate my application now and let some other poor bastard have the chance/position?!
just a thought.
just wondering if anyone who visits this forum has made it to the medical/police check stage of their QANTAS AME apprenticeship application. I have! fingers crossed for myself and everyone else. Although, if the the comments of others that suggest QANTAS should not be cosidered as a choice of employer for their given reasons are true, then perhaps I should terminate my application now and let some other poor bastard have the chance/position?!
just a thought.
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big mistake
18 and making a big mistake. Remember when your mother told you to do something and you never listen, then years later you think back and she was right the whole time. thats whats happening here.
he's some more info. After doing your time and completing basics, and 2 years service
Trade + 8 Basics and your 6 years service then you are
QF AME level 10 = $25.12 p/h
Trade + ALL basics + Type course + SOE + 6-8 years sevice then you are
QF LAME Level 3 = $26.94 p/h if you get a course or pay for one and they recognise it.
Do yourselves a favour and ask your mates dads and their mates what hourly rate they are on, i bet it's higher. Passion for aircraft only last a while, then you need a house!
he's some more info. After doing your time and completing basics, and 2 years service
Trade + 8 Basics and your 6 years service then you are
QF AME level 10 = $25.12 p/h
Trade + ALL basics + Type course + SOE + 6-8 years sevice then you are
QF LAME Level 3 = $26.94 p/h if you get a course or pay for one and they recognise it.
Do yourselves a favour and ask your mates dads and their mates what hourly rate they are on, i bet it's higher. Passion for aircraft only last a while, then you need a house!