Has EI/HRSDC stopped funding aviation training?
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Has EI/HRSDC stopped funding aviation training?
In the past there have been threads on aviation forums regarding EI/HRSDC funding aviation training for unemployed pilots. Some pilots have had general ratings such as the Multi-engine and Instrument Rating paid for and others have received full funding for Type Ratings for such aircraft as the DHC8, all through EI/HRSDC while unemployed.
In the current recession EI/HRSDC should be doing all it can to help the increased numbers of unemployed get back to work. This is what the Skills Development part of HRSDC is supposed to be for. Presumably it should also apply to pilots. There have been advertisements advising that funding is available to the unemployed for various courses such as a Class 1 driver’s licence to become a truck driver. EI/HRSDC also funds academic courses and trades at various colleges. It seems that funding is only available now to those who want to change careers. Where is the funding for those who want to stay in the same occupation but want to upgrade their qualifications and develop their skills to make themselves more employable? Has the Skills Development part of HRSDC been stopped?
Staff at EI/HRSDC offices or provincial offices acting on behalf of Service Canada claim to know nothing about funding for pilot training or skills development. Indeed according to several unemployed pilots they know nothing about any of the requirements/training/expense needed to act as a pilot or of such things as Type Ratings, recurrent training and medicals, etc. They apparently think a 250 hour CPL entitles one to jump into the left seat of a B747 and that nothing more is need for the rest of one’s career! Pilots pay the same amounts into the EI fund, they pay the same income and other taxes, so why are they denied the same training and skills development when they become unemployed?
Has any pilot had any recent experience (this year) of receiving EI/HRSDC funding, either directly through Service Canada or indirectly through a provincial agency, for pilot training and skills development?
In the current recession EI/HRSDC should be doing all it can to help the increased numbers of unemployed get back to work. This is what the Skills Development part of HRSDC is supposed to be for. Presumably it should also apply to pilots. There have been advertisements advising that funding is available to the unemployed for various courses such as a Class 1 driver’s licence to become a truck driver. EI/HRSDC also funds academic courses and trades at various colleges. It seems that funding is only available now to those who want to change careers. Where is the funding for those who want to stay in the same occupation but want to upgrade their qualifications and develop their skills to make themselves more employable? Has the Skills Development part of HRSDC been stopped?
Staff at EI/HRSDC offices or provincial offices acting on behalf of Service Canada claim to know nothing about funding for pilot training or skills development. Indeed according to several unemployed pilots they know nothing about any of the requirements/training/expense needed to act as a pilot or of such things as Type Ratings, recurrent training and medicals, etc. They apparently think a 250 hour CPL entitles one to jump into the left seat of a B747 and that nothing more is need for the rest of one’s career! Pilots pay the same amounts into the EI fund, they pay the same income and other taxes, so why are they denied the same training and skills development when they become unemployed?
Has any pilot had any recent experience (this year) of receiving EI/HRSDC funding, either directly through Service Canada or indirectly through a provincial agency, for pilot training and skills development?
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Various unemployed pilots across Canada have enquired about funding for training from EI or HRSDC. They have discovered that there is nothing available. There might be some funding available to someone who has a PPL for obtaining a CPL, ME and IR but that's where it stops. That is of no use to a pilot with those licences and ratings who has become unemployed.
If you already have a CPL with ME/IR there is nothing further available. There is no funding to maintain let alone improve your skills and qualifications. You cannot obtain funding to renew your IR or PPC. EI/HRSDC and their provincial agents do not recognise any need to maintain skills, the regulatory requirements for recency and currency or that an Instrument Rating is only valid for a certain length of time. Obtaining a Type Rating is not funded and such well known operations as Flight Safety International are not approved training organisations for federal or provincial funding for trainees.
The only funding available to unemployed pilots is for a change of occupation to something like Class A truck driver licence. EI/HRSDC also funds academic courses and trades at various colleges. It seems that funding is only available now to those who want to change careers. Where is the funding for those who want to stay in the same occupation but want to upgrade their qualifications and develop their skills to make themselves more employable? Where is the funding for those who need to maintain skills or who have qualifications such as an Instrument rating or PPC that have to be regularly renewed?
In the current recession EI/HRSDC should be doing all it can to help the increased numbers of unemployed get back to work. This is what the Skills Development part of HRSDC is supposed to be for. Presumably this should also apply to pilots.
In past threads on various forums posters have indicated that they or fellow pilots have received funding from EI/HRSDC for type ratings, etc. This is no longer available. Canadian pilots who lose their jobs are now on their own. There is no training or Skills Development assistance or funding available to pilots from federal or provincial EI or Skills Development programs. There is nothing available whether directly from EI, HRSDC or through the Labour Market Development Agreements (LMDA) with all provinces and territories.
Good luck to those pilots who are unemployed!
By the way, do pilots pay the same rates of EI contributions and taxes as those in other occupations?
Here are some past links. They indicate that funding used to be available.
AVCANADA • View topic - HRDC funding? How to get it? How much $$$$???
AVCANADA • View topic - Funding a rating with EI
AVCANADA • View topic - Service Canada (EI) Funded Type Ratings?
AVCANADA • View topic - EI May Help
If you already have a CPL with ME/IR there is nothing further available. There is no funding to maintain let alone improve your skills and qualifications. You cannot obtain funding to renew your IR or PPC. EI/HRSDC and their provincial agents do not recognise any need to maintain skills, the regulatory requirements for recency and currency or that an Instrument Rating is only valid for a certain length of time. Obtaining a Type Rating is not funded and such well known operations as Flight Safety International are not approved training organisations for federal or provincial funding for trainees.
The only funding available to unemployed pilots is for a change of occupation to something like Class A truck driver licence. EI/HRSDC also funds academic courses and trades at various colleges. It seems that funding is only available now to those who want to change careers. Where is the funding for those who want to stay in the same occupation but want to upgrade their qualifications and develop their skills to make themselves more employable? Where is the funding for those who need to maintain skills or who have qualifications such as an Instrument rating or PPC that have to be regularly renewed?
In the current recession EI/HRSDC should be doing all it can to help the increased numbers of unemployed get back to work. This is what the Skills Development part of HRSDC is supposed to be for. Presumably this should also apply to pilots.
In past threads on various forums posters have indicated that they or fellow pilots have received funding from EI/HRSDC for type ratings, etc. This is no longer available. Canadian pilots who lose their jobs are now on their own. There is no training or Skills Development assistance or funding available to pilots from federal or provincial EI or Skills Development programs. There is nothing available whether directly from EI, HRSDC or through the Labour Market Development Agreements (LMDA) with all provinces and territories.
Good luck to those pilots who are unemployed!
By the way, do pilots pay the same rates of EI contributions and taxes as those in other occupations?
Here are some past links. They indicate that funding used to be available.
AVCANADA • View topic - HRDC funding? How to get it? How much $$$$???
AVCANADA • View topic - Funding a rating with EI
AVCANADA • View topic - Service Canada (EI) Funded Type Ratings?
AVCANADA • View topic - EI May Help
Last edited by Carrier; 30th Nov 2009 at 21:40. Reason: addition and links
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Carrier , not intending to sound cynical or rude , but I would doubt that if you had a large amount of capital to invest ( read it again... invest ) with the intent on obtaining a return on that investment that you would be happy to see that money go towards hundreds of private pilots getting night ratings , multi-ifr pilots buying type ratings , commercial pilots getting class 4 instructor ratings , etc , etc in this financial climate. Just where are these people going to get work to repay these outstanding loans ? Why don`t you just tell us what your self interest in this issue is and be done with it. There is a reason why banks aren`t lending to private individuals for aviation training as they once were , and that is basically a sound return on that investment. The government of Canada shouldn`t be in the business of funding wannabe pilots. It`s too expensive , it`s too risky and it`s a poor return on investment. Sorry to sound harsh here but if EI were to invest the $$$ for say 100 private pilots to train up to ATPL standards , how many do you think would finish ? I wouldn`t expect any more than 10 , then if you are going to say anything about a selection process ,perhaps a kind of back to work program.. well the government is not in that kind of business.Big waste of money.
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reply to 6000pic
If, by your estimate, only 10 of 100 applicants would succeed, why not have the applicants assume some of the risk? All applicants would agree to refund 100% of the EI subsidy if they do not successfully complete the program. This way, the wannabes are on the hook and only the successful candidates would actually be subsidized.
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It used to be called UIC for " unemployment insurance ".
Under that description there would be no reason to want money to upgrade your skills. If you lost your job you would collect money to help make up for being unemployed.
Under the new name EI " Employment insurance " I can see where people would ask for money to upgrade their skills.
Under that description there would be no reason to want money to upgrade your skills. If you lost your job you would collect money to help make up for being unemployed.
Under the new name EI " Employment insurance " I can see where people would ask for money to upgrade their skills.
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Funding available?
Although speaking of the past, as in 6 years ago. The situation of the hrdc was like this. Many offices in select regions absolutely refused to fund pilot training. These clowns insisted that it was not available anywhere. Bull****! It was, and it was available to pilots for the purpose of obtaining different type ratings for the purpose of continued employment. PPL to commercial was not on the menu. Nor was going from a King Air to a 777 allowed that i had heard of. To move from one jet as in an older version 737 to a newer type ng or 744 was. I know first hand. It seemed to be certain regions allowed it. As I was told it was determined by where you lived the level income and employment surrounding you. Perhaps community affluence who knows. Anyways it was up to you to put a package together and sell yourself. A strong point is obviously obtaining a job. More than likely internationally with this ticket. Flight Safety in the US was acceptable! Don`t listen to the retards that claim this is not an option. I was told that as well. If fisherman and farmers mill workers etc. can get a bail out we can to. Do your homework and good luck.
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If what you say has any semblance of the truth , then why should Canadian taxpayers fork over precious tax revenue to an American company ( Flight Safety ) so that an unemployed Canadian pilot can pack up and go to work overseas ? Do you see how fiscally irresponsible that is ? Don`t even bother mentioning remittances ..., frankly just a silly idea all around and I hope the people at EI responsible for doling out this cash are a little bit wary and suspicious of these claims. Didn`t you used to work at Lehman Brothers ?
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Keeping your Multi IFR current, sure. Paying for type ratings, NO! I know a couple of guys with 300 - 400 hrs that took advantage of that a few years back and had EI pay for A320 type ratings. They never found a job. 40k per type rating in tax payer money down the drain.
I thought the whole notion of who should pay for training had been beaten to death. If EI pay for some pilots to obtain a type rating based on a promisary note from some operator I want them to follow up and ensure that the job promised wasn't a hoax. I also know several guys whom had operators write these letters with no intensions of hiring them after. Also where does that put other operators that hire guys right off the street and train them at their own expense. If you want to re-educate yourself... fine, if you find yourself on the street and EI pays for your medical exams and to keep your Multi IFR current or to do some take-offs and landings at the local flying club.... fine. But buying type ratings cause it makes you more marketable is shooting at the stars, especially in a recession/industry downturn where nobody is hiring regardless.
I thought the whole notion of who should pay for training had been beaten to death. If EI pay for some pilots to obtain a type rating based on a promisary note from some operator I want them to follow up and ensure that the job promised wasn't a hoax. I also know several guys whom had operators write these letters with no intensions of hiring them after. Also where does that put other operators that hire guys right off the street and train them at their own expense. If you want to re-educate yourself... fine, if you find yourself on the street and EI pays for your medical exams and to keep your Multi IFR current or to do some take-offs and landings at the local flying club.... fine. But buying type ratings cause it makes you more marketable is shooting at the stars, especially in a recession/industry downturn where nobody is hiring regardless.
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Good for you 6000 Prick.
Sorry through a couple of extra letters in there for you.
First of all i doubt your a pilot! I also care not if you believe some folks got funding. As far as funding a US operation like Flight Safety is concerned the future tax benefits far outway outlay. Certain type ratings were and are not avialable in Canada.
By the way boy, nobody said anything about running off overseas and not paying taxes. This was just to make a point that funding was and may still be available.
This isn`t about your shortcomings it`s about getting pilots back to work so off you go now. Your absolutely useless to this thread!
First of all i doubt your a pilot! I also care not if you believe some folks got funding. As far as funding a US operation like Flight Safety is concerned the future tax benefits far outway outlay. Certain type ratings were and are not avialable in Canada.
By the way boy, nobody said anything about running off overseas and not paying taxes. This was just to make a point that funding was and may still be available.
This isn`t about your shortcomings it`s about getting pilots back to work so off you go now. Your absolutely useless to this thread!
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What the Fu?!!!!!! Rubberdubber!!!
Did the message say anything about some kid with 300 hours geting a jet rating on a 320 Nope. I wonder why that didn`t work out? Read the letter again and sit down and collect your thoughts dude. You and 6000 hour pic can get together for an evening of banging your noggins together in your parents basement.
In the meantime i hope the HRDC works as it should.
Peace out!
In the meantime i hope the HRDC works as it should.
Peace out!
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Hamwhoeveryouare , my point to this thread was that EI/HRSDC should not be involved in this fools errand of subjectively funding pilot remployment. There are more than enough unemployed pilots who have worked hard , saved , scrimped , worked dead end jobs on ramps , loading airplanes ,flying **** airplanes for **** operators in **** conditions , etc , etc and paid for their training themselves without the government adding to the already overfilled pilot resume pool by subsidizing those that quite simply can`t afford it. Sure it would be nice if every little kid that wanted to be a pilot got to live their dream and wear the nice uniform and hat , but the reality is that most don`t have the financial means , aptitude , work ethic , stubborness and tenacity that is required to be a professional aviator in todays world.
What future tax benefits are you referring to ? Do you really think those recieving any funds are nothing more than a statistic ? Governments are in the business of getting elected , re-elected and staying in power , don`t be so altruistic.
I am a pilot , and unlike you I can spell too.
What future tax benefits are you referring to ? Do you really think those recieving any funds are nothing more than a statistic ? Governments are in the business of getting elected , re-elected and staying in power , don`t be so altruistic.
I am a pilot , and unlike you I can spell too.
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Back to the topic
Just for further clarification for the mildly retarted. The original question put forth was not to clarify a spelling issue. Was not about shiny coats and big hats for little kids. And was not about someone that had not more than pay his dues becomming a jet pilot. A few years ago funding was offered in certain areas to (from what I saw) heavy jet pilots to upgrade to newer equipment, this was pilots that were laid off. For futher clarification this was just after 911. The jobs were overseas taking the pilot out of this market if they were still holding a place of domicile in Canada. This ensured they would pay taxes back home and get them off the UIC payment and out of the 3 year cycle of companys in Canada grand opening and not so grand closing. Just what I saw in my particular region. Once again sorry about the spelling, just came off a 14 hour trip.
All things aside hope this helps toward the original issue.
And back to the xbox flyer ms 6000 pic...suck it, is that spelled ok? Thanks for being no help to this site.
All things aside hope this helps toward the original issue.
And back to the xbox flyer ms 6000 pic...suck it, is that spelled ok? Thanks for being no help to this site.
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Hamwhoeveryouare , I think you will find the original question was if any pilot has had any recent experience THIS YEAR of recieving EI/ HRSDC funding for pilot training and skills development , what does that have to do with something post 9-11 ? I hope your attitude on the flight deck is more mature than it is here. End of discussion for me. ps ; your spelling is still poor.
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I know of one youg lady who having flown floats and fire for a few years obtained funding to renew her I/R, then went on to being a training captain on turbines now flys for an airline, the tax department has more than made back their investment by now, the folks handing out the money need to know more about the industry so they dont go funding a 747 rating for a 400 hour wonder , when I see the money pissed away on the TC fleet {so they can land gear up, come out of cloud inverted and all that stuff} its hard to begrudge a few bucks being spent on a kid on the way up the food chain.
