PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > Other Aircrew Forums > Cabin Crew
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Cabin Crew Where professional flight attendants discuss matters that affect our jobs & lives.


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:13   #41 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 22
I think the fact that Tony Woodley is appealing to the board for fresh talks while BA are just carrying on with the operation says a lot about who is more desperate for the IA to end, no?
cheeky chappy is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:18   #42 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 44
Posts: 90
bacabincrew

Agreed. But I think Right Engine's advice to "keep your mouth shut" was for the protection of both parties involved... (expressed in a slightly less-than-fluffy way!)
dave747436 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:25   #43 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 78
BA carrying on with the operation?

This is turning into an absolute disaster for BA - they are running circa 50% of their schedule, with many flights carrying very few passengers and a number of services departing empty.

The fact that a number of volunteers have not been required is due to the numbers of passengers on-board that means flights can leave with only 8 crew.

Many people on this forum over the last few months have made numerous comments such as:

1 Strike over in 2 hours
2 No-one will strike
3 First strikers sacked on day 1
4 All strikers locked out

Etc etc etc

Very few people, Mr Walsh included, envisaged this dispute running for the full 3 days with the level of support that the strike has had - and what you have to understand is that those who went on strike this weekend will be on strike next weekend as well. BA's management have grossly misjudged the commitment of their employees to taking strike action.

And for what it is worth - even I am surprised at the levels of support
bacabincrew is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:27   #44 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 368
BAcabincrew,

That's not true. Just because your service agreements specify a number of crew per aircraft, it's legal, for example, for a full 777 to depart with 8 crew only. That's the legal minimum and doesn't mean there's no passengers on board. BA are working to scheme right now - industrial limits and agreements are suspended to all intents and purposes.

That, however, is the kind of thing BASSA would love you to believe.

MrB
MrBunker is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:30   #45 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 78
Mr Bunker

Hi there - no sorry maybe I wasnt clear on that - I meant the 8 crew could be utilised because load factors where low and could justify operating with 8 and still carrying out a service.

I wasnt trying to infer that all those operating with 8 had no passengers on
bacabincrew is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:32   #46 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 368
Sorry,

I perhaps wasn't clear either. The fact is that the authorities are happy with a fully-loaded 777 going out with 8 crew. The service has already been curtailed to factor in both this and the volunteer status of some crew.
MrBunker is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:42   #47 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: M3 usually!
Posts: 492
More than my jobs worth to copy and paste it on here but it appears that someone has got hold of a breakdown of all the flights that left yesterday (the implication being it has been leaked from WTS), the number of crew on each and the load factors. The 65 long-haul flights that did get away had either quite substantial loads or (around 30) were empty and the number of cabin crew in total used was around 465 when normal operations would need 2500. Of those there is no breakdown as to how many were existing crew and how many volunteers. Obviously all 747's can be presumed to have existing crew. Have a look on CF if you want to see it.

Last edited by ottergirl; 22nd Mar 2010 at 14:53.
ottergirl is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:48   #48 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 78
Ottergirl

Yes - I have seen that list as well - a few flights where quite full with only 8 crew (thats what I was trying to say MrB)
bacabincrew is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:51   #49 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Planet Earth (sometimes)
Posts: 2,542
Quote:
I meant the 8 crew could be utilised because load factors where low and could justify operating with 8 and still carrying out a service.
Sorry but no, it's not working like that. I'm operating a 777 in the very near future, 8 crew the Cabin, and a booked load of well above 80%.
wiggy is online now  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:52   #50 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 78
GS-Alpha

Quote:
I think the point is irrelevant anyway because rumour has it that strikers are not going to be rostered to come to work until next weekend anyway. Oh, and they are not going to be paid either, so no point in celebrating those XXXXXs on your roster just yet.
You are correct in so much that many crew are not coming back in till next weekend. It appears that all Crew who have been on strike are XXXX'd until the end of the rostered duty that they went on strike for, including the MBT's that the trip generated - the forward roster has not been wiped beyond the trip missed.
bacabincrew is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:53   #51 (permalink)

A Runyonesque Character
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Big E
Age: 65
Posts: 1,202
From Management Today - possibly a reasonable reflection of what 'The City' thinks:

BA winning battle for sympathy as strike continues news by Email - Management Today
The SSK is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:54   #52 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 78
wiggy

Hi there - yes indeed it seems that some flights are operating with quite healthy loads and only have 8 CC
bacabincrew is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 14:55   #53 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: M3 usually!
Posts: 492
That doesn't address the short-haul rosters. They may well be back at work tomorrow. i have a gap on my briefing sheet for tomorrow but there is no way of knowing whether that was originally a crew member who was striking, or has been suspended on other issues, or is off sick.

The service for the last few days has been so limited that I imagine 8 crew could manage a 777. I'm not sure I'd want to though!!
ottergirl is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 15:10   #54 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 329
BA are obviously going to roster striking crews to come in during the next strike. They either do not come in and continue to be unpaid and BA has lost nothing, or they begin to change their minds and come back to work. BA has nothing to lose and everything to gain by rostering current strikers to come to work during the next strike period.

My personal thoughts on the strike so far. BA are totally 100% in control of the situation. There is obviously loss of revenue, but nothing that is above what BA was expecting and therefore it was all very well pre-planned. BA did not back down at the 11th hour because they know that this extent of pain is acceptable and they know what their contingency plans are. Unite can only guess and have no contingency other than to continue with the rhetoric. The cabin crew have no contingency other than to use their credit cards... No wonder the Chairman is saying that Willie is doing a great job - it is all proceeding like clockwork.

Unite claim that this strike is damaging BA and so is not in its interest. BA have done the figures, they know what is in their interest and what is not. Of course the strike is damaging revenue at present, but long term this will be recovered from either the striking crew or perhaps Unite themselves?

Overall I am dead certain that this dispute is still in fact absolutely in BA's long term interest. The flip side of the coin is that it is most definitely not in the long term, short term, or any kind of term for that matter, interests of the striking cabin crew.

One day you will all come to realise this. The only thing I am unsure of, is how long it will take for the penny to drop, and how much money you yourselves will have lost in the meantime.

Last edited by GS-Alpha; 22nd Mar 2010 at 21:50.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 15:25   #55 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 9
My personal experience of the last few days.

Quote:
The service for the last few days has been so limited that I imagine 8 crew could manage a 777. I'm not sure I'd want to though!!
I've just completed a 777 trip with 8 crew (4 regular crew and 4 volunteers), the service was fine, despite being trimmed down, and I have to say everyone made it work and this was recognised by the passengers.

There was a great atmosphere on board and at the end I knew my decision to volunteer, despite being a 'Guardian reading lefty', was the right one.

I don't know what benefit there is in the continual trading of figures and statistics about who turned up and how many planes took off, as one can always find a statistic to counter another. I can say that more flights have departed than were planned for the current disruption period and indeed people have been sent home as there was a surplus of regular cabin crew.
On my flight we ended up with two extra crew members at the briefing who were stood down.

On a personal note, as one who has friends on either side of the line, is that I'm proud of those of you who had the courage to come in to work under the enormous pressure that has existed to do otherwise and to those of you who 'downed tools' get the result that you wish for.

Above thoughts and opinions are mine and mine alone.
Pin-Lever-Pin is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 15:25   #56 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 22
Bacabincrew

Quote:
BA carrying on with the operation?
Yes, carrying on with the operation, a limited one perhaps but a fuller operation than the company originally said they would.
Fact is that the strike has not grounded the airline and Unite are the ones loudly protesting that talks should be resumed. The company is just carrying on trying to fly as many passengers as it can and it's doing pretty well. It would almost appear that they don't want you back.
I doubt that you have set foot in T5 over the last few days but those of us who have will have seen that it's been reasonably busy and getting busier each day. Hardly the "Ghost town" that Unite would have everyone believe.
Strangely I don't think it's been as much of a PR disaster as some make out as Joe public can plainly see that depite Unites best efforts BA have planned well and are getting on with it.
cheeky chappy is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 15:31   #57 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 78
Quote:
Joe public can plainly see that depite Unites best efforts BA have planned well and are getting on with it.
Unfortunately they can't though can they? With a total media blackout from within T5 and Mr Walsh not raising his head above the parapet - the public see what the public get - ie aircraft taking off and nobody knowing how many on-board or how many crew.

If it had all gone so well 'to plan' Mr Walsh would have had every single news crew in there filming the 49,000 passengers a day moving through T5 - the fact that yesterday around 8/9,000 flew with BA tells a story in itself
bacabincrew is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 15:48   #58 (permalink)

the lunatic fringe
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 602
Media reporting of British Airways' operation

After a number of inaccurate media reports on the airline's operation over the weekend, British Airways has issued the following statement.

Quote:
MEDIA REPORTING OF BRITISH AIRWAYS’ OPERATION

Some media reports on our flight operations during the period of Unite’s strike have appeared to give equal weight to information we have issued as to claims made by Unite.

As a PLC, British Airways is legally obliged to ensure that it does not release information that is misleading or inaccurate. Information concerning our operation is clearly market sensitive.

This information includes matters such as numbers of passengers we are able to carry, numbers of flights operated and numbers of crew reporting for work. Any suggestion in media reports that information we have issued is untrue implies that the airline’s management is acting unlawfully.

Unite and its cabin crew branch BASSA are under no such legal constraints. A great deal of the information they have put out over the last three days has no basis in fact. For example, Unite has no way of obtaining accurate figures as to how many customers are on our aircraft or how many crew are reporting for work. Similarly, as some media reports have pointed out, Unite’s claims about the location of British Airways aircraft have been false.

It is extremely confusing for our customers when the content of some media reports conflicts with information we have provided via ba.com and direct communications in an effort to minimise uncertainty about travel plans.

We have no difficulty with media desire to report Unite’s strike impartially. We believe this objective, and the objective of accurate reporting, is assisted by rigorous assessment by media organisations of the information they receive.
L337 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 16:02   #59 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 22
Bacabincrew

Quote:
the fact that yesterday around 8/9,000 flew with BA tells a story in itself
And a link or source for that "fact" perhaps...
'cos I don't believe a word of it
cheeky chappy is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 16:02   #60 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sussex
Posts: 77
Complete nonsense from Unite

Hi there,

Just writing this post from Boston having operated out as volunteer SCCM last night. Nutjob is exactly right with the process being used in CRC.
The place was very busy yesterday afternoon with lots of cabin crew reporting for work.
One of our flight crew vols was sent home as we had four crew report for duty. Neither the CSD or Purser showed up.
So we had me as SCCM, three very experienced crew who were all brilliant, one ex temp back on a new temporary contract (they trained up 60 crew in one week!), who was also brilliant, one customer service agent on her first trip and two other flight crew vols.
The flight was fantastic, we had 238 customers and the service worked really well. The passengers were so appreciative and even gave us a round of applause when we arrived in Boston. Saying bye to everyone at Door 2 was a fantastic experience and I was really proud of everyone on board. Nobody wanted this dispute for sure, but after the way Unite and BASSA have behaved, it was brilliant to see the reaction of passengers yesterday. Now looking forward to tonight's flight home. We only have about 150 passengers going home, but all three Boston flights have operated as full commercial services on each day of the strike and the local staff here are delighted.

I see BA has issues a statement concerning the false information being spread around by BASSA/Unite.

Every time I read their latest bit of diatribe, it makes me so angry, however after a few minutes, that anger turns into confidence that these are the last few throws of the dice for an out of date trade union in dire trouble.
Just a shame a lot of misguided crew are being caught in the crossfire along with the hotheads and militants.

Can't wait to see what my next trip is now. I have a feeling this might go on for a while now....
BentleyH is offline  
Closed Thread
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 16:41.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network