British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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I think the fact that Tony Woodley is appealing to the board for fresh talks while BA are just carrying on with the operation says a lot about who is more desperate for the IA to end, no?
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bacabincrew
Agreed. But I think Right Engine's advice to "keep your mouth shut" was for the protection of both parties involved... (expressed in a slightly less-than-fluffy way!)
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BA carrying on with the operation?
This is turning into an absolute disaster for BA - they are running circa 50% of their schedule, with many flights carrying very few passengers and a number of services departing empty.
The fact that a number of volunteers have not been required is due to the numbers of passengers on-board that means flights can leave with only 8 crew.
Many people on this forum over the last few months have made numerous comments such as:
1 Strike over in 2 hours
2 No-one will strike
3 First strikers sacked on day 1
4 All strikers locked out
Etc etc etc
Very few people, Mr Walsh included, envisaged this dispute running for the full 3 days with the level of support that the strike has had - and what you have to understand is that those who went on strike this weekend will be on strike next weekend as well. BA's management have grossly misjudged the commitment of their employees to taking strike action.
And for what it is worth - even I am surprised at the levels of support
This is turning into an absolute disaster for BA - they are running circa 50% of their schedule, with many flights carrying very few passengers and a number of services departing empty.
The fact that a number of volunteers have not been required is due to the numbers of passengers on-board that means flights can leave with only 8 crew.
Many people on this forum over the last few months have made numerous comments such as:
1 Strike over in 2 hours
2 No-one will strike
3 First strikers sacked on day 1
4 All strikers locked out
Etc etc etc
Very few people, Mr Walsh included, envisaged this dispute running for the full 3 days with the level of support that the strike has had - and what you have to understand is that those who went on strike this weekend will be on strike next weekend as well. BA's management have grossly misjudged the commitment of their employees to taking strike action.
And for what it is worth - even I am surprised at the levels of support
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BAcabincrew,
That's not true. Just because your service agreements specify a number of crew per aircraft, it's legal, for example, for a full 777 to depart with 8 crew only. That's the legal minimum and doesn't mean there's no passengers on board. BA are working to scheme right now - industrial limits and agreements are suspended to all intents and purposes.
That, however, is the kind of thing BASSA would love you to believe.
MrB
That's not true. Just because your service agreements specify a number of crew per aircraft, it's legal, for example, for a full 777 to depart with 8 crew only. That's the legal minimum and doesn't mean there's no passengers on board. BA are working to scheme right now - industrial limits and agreements are suspended to all intents and purposes.
That, however, is the kind of thing BASSA would love you to believe.
MrB
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Mr Bunker
Hi there - no sorry maybe I wasnt clear on that - I meant the 8 crew could be utilised because load factors where low and could justify operating with 8 and still carrying out a service.
I wasnt trying to infer that all those operating with 8 had no passengers on
I wasnt trying to infer that all those operating with 8 had no passengers on
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Sorry,
I perhaps wasn't clear either. The fact is that the authorities are happy with a fully-loaded 777 going out with 8 crew. The service has already been curtailed to factor in both this and the volunteer status of some crew.
I perhaps wasn't clear either. The fact is that the authorities are happy with a fully-loaded 777 going out with 8 crew. The service has already been curtailed to factor in both this and the volunteer status of some crew.
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More than my jobs worth to copy and paste it on here but it appears that someone has got hold of a breakdown of all the flights that left yesterday (the implication being it has been leaked from WTS), the number of crew on each and the load factors. The 65 long-haul flights that did get away had either quite substantial loads or (around 30) were empty and the number of cabin crew in total used was around 465 when normal operations would need 2500. Of those there is no breakdown as to how many were existing crew and how many volunteers. Obviously all 747's can be presumed to have existing crew. Have a look on CF if you want to see it.
Last edited by ottergirl; 22nd Mar 2010 at 13:53.
I meant the 8 crew could be utilised because load factors where low and could justify operating with 8 and still carrying out a service.
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GS-Alpha
I think the point is irrelevant anyway because rumour has it that strikers are not going to be rostered to come to work until next weekend anyway. Oh, and they are not going to be paid either, so no point in celebrating those XXXXXs on your roster just yet.
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From Management Today - possibly a reasonable reflection of what 'The City' thinks:
BA winning battle for sympathy as strike continues news by Email - Management Today
BA winning battle for sympathy as strike continues news by Email - Management Today
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That doesn't address the short-haul rosters. They may well be back at work tomorrow. i have a gap on my briefing sheet for tomorrow but there is no way of knowing whether that was originally a crew member who was striking, or has been suspended on other issues, or is off sick.
The service for the last few days has been so limited that I imagine 8 crew could manage a 777. I'm not sure I'd want to though!!
The service for the last few days has been so limited that I imagine 8 crew could manage a 777. I'm not sure I'd want to though!!
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BA are obviously going to roster striking crews to come in during the next strike. They either do not come in and continue to be unpaid and BA has lost nothing, or they begin to change their minds and come back to work. BA has nothing to lose and everything to gain by rostering current strikers to come to work during the next strike period.
My personal thoughts on the strike so far. BA are totally 100% in control of the situation. There is obviously loss of revenue, but nothing that is above what BA was expecting and therefore it was all very well pre-planned. BA did not back down at the 11th hour because they know that this extent of pain is acceptable and they know what their contingency plans are. Unite can only guess and have no contingency other than to continue with the rhetoric. The cabin crew have no contingency other than to use their credit cards... No wonder the Chairman is saying that Willie is doing a great job - it is all proceeding like clockwork.
Unite claim that this strike is damaging BA and so is not in its interest. BA have done the figures, they know what is in their interest and what is not. Of course the strike is damaging revenue at present, but long term this will be recovered from either the striking crew or perhaps Unite themselves?
Overall I am dead certain that this dispute is still in fact absolutely in BA's long term interest. The flip side of the coin is that it is most definitely not in the long term, short term, or any kind of term for that matter, interests of the striking cabin crew.
One day you will all come to realise this. The only thing I am unsure of, is how long it will take for the penny to drop, and how much money you yourselves will have lost in the meantime.
My personal thoughts on the strike so far. BA are totally 100% in control of the situation. There is obviously loss of revenue, but nothing that is above what BA was expecting and therefore it was all very well pre-planned. BA did not back down at the 11th hour because they know that this extent of pain is acceptable and they know what their contingency plans are. Unite can only guess and have no contingency other than to continue with the rhetoric. The cabin crew have no contingency other than to use their credit cards... No wonder the Chairman is saying that Willie is doing a great job - it is all proceeding like clockwork.
Unite claim that this strike is damaging BA and so is not in its interest. BA have done the figures, they know what is in their interest and what is not. Of course the strike is damaging revenue at present, but long term this will be recovered from either the striking crew or perhaps Unite themselves?
Overall I am dead certain that this dispute is still in fact absolutely in BA's long term interest. The flip side of the coin is that it is most definitely not in the long term, short term, or any kind of term for that matter, interests of the striking cabin crew.
One day you will all come to realise this. The only thing I am unsure of, is how long it will take for the penny to drop, and how much money you yourselves will have lost in the meantime.
Last edited by GS-Alpha; 22nd Mar 2010 at 20:50.
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My personal experience of the last few days.
The service for the last few days has been so limited that I imagine 8 crew could manage a 777. I'm not sure I'd want to though!!
There was a great atmosphere on board and at the end I knew my decision to volunteer, despite being a 'Guardian reading lefty', was the right one.
I don't know what benefit there is in the continual trading of figures and statistics about who turned up and how many planes took off, as one can always find a statistic to counter another. I can say that more flights have departed than were planned for the current disruption period and indeed people have been sent home as there was a surplus of regular cabin crew.
On my flight we ended up with two extra crew members at the briefing who were stood down.
On a personal note, as one who has friends on either side of the line, is that I'm proud of those of you who had the courage to come in to work under the enormous pressure that has existed to do otherwise and to those of you who 'downed tools' get the result that you wish for.
Above thoughts and opinions are mine and mine alone.
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Bacabincrew
BA carrying on with the operation?
Fact is that the strike has not grounded the airline and Unite are the ones loudly protesting that talks should be resumed. The company is just carrying on trying to fly as many passengers as it can and it's doing pretty well. It would almost appear that they don't want you back.
I doubt that you have set foot in T5 over the last few days but those of us who have will have seen that it's been reasonably busy and getting busier each day. Hardly the "Ghost town" that Unite would have everyone believe.
Strangely I don't think it's been as much of a PR disaster as some make out as Joe public can plainly see that depite Unites best efforts BA have planned well and are getting on with it.
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Joe public can plainly see that depite Unites best efforts BA have planned well and are getting on with it.
If it had all gone so well 'to plan' Mr Walsh would have had every single news crew in there filming the 49,000 passengers a day moving through T5 - the fact that yesterday around 8/9,000 flew with BA tells a story in itself
the lunatic fringe
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Media reporting of British Airways' operation
After a number of inaccurate media reports on the airline's operation over the weekend, British Airways has issued the following statement.
After a number of inaccurate media reports on the airline's operation over the weekend, British Airways has issued the following statement.
MEDIA REPORTING OF BRITISH AIRWAYS’ OPERATION
Some media reports on our flight operations during the period of Unite’s strike have appeared to give equal weight to information we have issued as to claims made by Unite.
As a PLC, British Airways is legally obliged to ensure that it does not release information that is misleading or inaccurate. Information concerning our operation is clearly market sensitive.
This information includes matters such as numbers of passengers we are able to carry, numbers of flights operated and numbers of crew reporting for work. Any suggestion in media reports that information we have issued is untrue implies that the airline’s management is acting unlawfully.
Unite and its cabin crew branch BASSA are under no such legal constraints. A great deal of the information they have put out over the last three days has no basis in fact. For example, Unite has no way of obtaining accurate figures as to how many customers are on our aircraft or how many crew are reporting for work. Similarly, as some media reports have pointed out, Unite’s claims about the location of British Airways aircraft have been false.
It is extremely confusing for our customers when the content of some media reports conflicts with information we have provided via ba.com and direct communications in an effort to minimise uncertainty about travel plans.
We have no difficulty with media desire to report Unite’s strike impartially. We believe this objective, and the objective of accurate reporting, is assisted by rigorous assessment by media organisations of the information they receive.
Some media reports on our flight operations during the period of Unite’s strike have appeared to give equal weight to information we have issued as to claims made by Unite.
As a PLC, British Airways is legally obliged to ensure that it does not release information that is misleading or inaccurate. Information concerning our operation is clearly market sensitive.
This information includes matters such as numbers of passengers we are able to carry, numbers of flights operated and numbers of crew reporting for work. Any suggestion in media reports that information we have issued is untrue implies that the airline’s management is acting unlawfully.
Unite and its cabin crew branch BASSA are under no such legal constraints. A great deal of the information they have put out over the last three days has no basis in fact. For example, Unite has no way of obtaining accurate figures as to how many customers are on our aircraft or how many crew are reporting for work. Similarly, as some media reports have pointed out, Unite’s claims about the location of British Airways aircraft have been false.
It is extremely confusing for our customers when the content of some media reports conflicts with information we have provided via ba.com and direct communications in an effort to minimise uncertainty about travel plans.
We have no difficulty with media desire to report Unite’s strike impartially. We believe this objective, and the objective of accurate reporting, is assisted by rigorous assessment by media organisations of the information they receive.
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Complete nonsense from Unite
Hi there,
Just writing this post from Boston having operated out as volunteer SCCM last night. Nutjob is exactly right with the process being used in CRC.
The place was very busy yesterday afternoon with lots of cabin crew reporting for work.
One of our flight crew vols was sent home as we had four crew report for duty. Neither the CSD or Purser showed up.
So we had me as SCCM, three very experienced crew who were all brilliant, one ex temp back on a new temporary contract (they trained up 60 crew in one week!), who was also brilliant, one customer service agent on her first trip and two other flight crew vols.
The flight was fantastic, we had 238 customers and the service worked really well. The passengers were so appreciative and even gave us a round of applause when we arrived in Boston. Saying bye to everyone at Door 2 was a fantastic experience and I was really proud of everyone on board. Nobody wanted this dispute for sure, but after the way Unite and BASSA have behaved, it was brilliant to see the reaction of passengers yesterday. Now looking forward to tonight's flight home. We only have about 150 passengers going home, but all three Boston flights have operated as full commercial services on each day of the strike and the local staff here are delighted.
I see BA has issues a statement concerning the false information being spread around by BASSA/Unite.
Every time I read their latest bit of diatribe, it makes me so angry, however after a few minutes, that anger turns into confidence that these are the last few throws of the dice for an out of date trade union in dire trouble.
Just a shame a lot of misguided crew are being caught in the crossfire along with the hotheads and militants.
Can't wait to see what my next trip is now. I have a feeling this might go on for a while now....
Just writing this post from Boston having operated out as volunteer SCCM last night. Nutjob is exactly right with the process being used in CRC.
The place was very busy yesterday afternoon with lots of cabin crew reporting for work.
One of our flight crew vols was sent home as we had four crew report for duty. Neither the CSD or Purser showed up.
So we had me as SCCM, three very experienced crew who were all brilliant, one ex temp back on a new temporary contract (they trained up 60 crew in one week!), who was also brilliant, one customer service agent on her first trip and two other flight crew vols.
The flight was fantastic, we had 238 customers and the service worked really well. The passengers were so appreciative and even gave us a round of applause when we arrived in Boston. Saying bye to everyone at Door 2 was a fantastic experience and I was really proud of everyone on board. Nobody wanted this dispute for sure, but after the way Unite and BASSA have behaved, it was brilliant to see the reaction of passengers yesterday. Now looking forward to tonight's flight home. We only have about 150 passengers going home, but all three Boston flights have operated as full commercial services on each day of the strike and the local staff here are delighted.
I see BA has issues a statement concerning the false information being spread around by BASSA/Unite.
Every time I read their latest bit of diatribe, it makes me so angry, however after a few minutes, that anger turns into confidence that these are the last few throws of the dice for an out of date trade union in dire trouble.
Just a shame a lot of misguided crew are being caught in the crossfire along with the hotheads and militants.
Can't wait to see what my next trip is now. I have a feeling this might go on for a while now....