BOAC B707 ops in the 1960s
707 seating - as described and no, the Nav seat didn't move fore and aft on the a/c centerline, but it did swivel and move closer to the table, and up and down of course to accommodate various physiques.
The sextant was contained in a fairly large, triangular shaped metal container, I think that the idea originally was that the Nav. would collect a sextant from Ops. and carry it out to the a/c each trip, probably a hang over from the days when Nav's owned their own Mk.9 bubble sextant and were responsible for them, as in seafaring days - maybe ? Fortunately that idea was forgotten and the 707 sextant case was bolted to the flight deck floor at the base of the "wardrobe" that occupied the space between the engineers station and the flight deck rear wall / door. In Winter it was necessary to brush aside the raincoats that were hanging over it.
On the Stratocruiser the co-pilot reached his seat by walking behind the flight engineers panel, and the navigator was in a little 'room' of his own, down a step, behind the flight deck, comms. with the pilots was by intercom.
Vandalise Loran charts !! Perish the thought, no it wasn't me, but I did suggest a method of using the square protractor to parallel the azimuth of the body away from site of the 'assumed' position, this kept the eventual 'fix' uncluttered with extraneous pencil lines.
Slightly off thread, but a colleague found himself navigating HNL - TYO at an unusually high latitude, for which he had no Loran chart coverage, so when the a/c position started to fly off the top of the chart on to the table he tore off a strip of plain white paper out of the teleprinter mounted above the Nav. table - no ones' mentioned that yet ! - and stapled it across the top of his chart, then created his own Mercator chart by projecting the meridians as parallels and using the formula for expanding the latitude ( you do remember how to do that, don't you ! ) on the plain paper, and then navigated by Astro until his track returned to the chart that he had and he resumed using the Loran. Clever
I'd have complimented him instead of criticising him for failing to ensure that he had the correct charts before starting ! Thinks - where would he have obtained a Loran chart on Honolulu airport at that time of night before departure?
and on the Britannia 'Brake Dwell Cocktail,
Happy days.
The sextant was contained in a fairly large, triangular shaped metal container, I think that the idea originally was that the Nav. would collect a sextant from Ops. and carry it out to the a/c each trip, probably a hang over from the days when Nav's owned their own Mk.9 bubble sextant and were responsible for them, as in seafaring days - maybe ? Fortunately that idea was forgotten and the 707 sextant case was bolted to the flight deck floor at the base of the "wardrobe" that occupied the space between the engineers station and the flight deck rear wall / door. In Winter it was necessary to brush aside the raincoats that were hanging over it.
On the Stratocruiser the co-pilot reached his seat by walking behind the flight engineers panel, and the navigator was in a little 'room' of his own, down a step, behind the flight deck, comms. with the pilots was by intercom.
Vandalise Loran charts !! Perish the thought, no it wasn't me, but I did suggest a method of using the square protractor to parallel the azimuth of the body away from site of the 'assumed' position, this kept the eventual 'fix' uncluttered with extraneous pencil lines.
Slightly off thread, but a colleague found himself navigating HNL - TYO at an unusually high latitude, for which he had no Loran chart coverage, so when the a/c position started to fly off the top of the chart on to the table he tore off a strip of plain white paper out of the teleprinter mounted above the Nav. table - no ones' mentioned that yet ! - and stapled it across the top of his chart, then created his own Mercator chart by projecting the meridians as parallels and using the formula for expanding the latitude ( you do remember how to do that, don't you ! ) on the plain paper, and then navigated by Astro until his track returned to the chart that he had and he resumed using the Loran. Clever
I'd have complimented him instead of criticising him for failing to ensure that he had the correct charts before starting ! Thinks - where would he have obtained a Loran chart on Honolulu airport at that time of night before departure?
millerscourt In GF it was called Brown Cow!
Happy days.
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 28th Nov 2014 at 00:17.
As I recall the seats in the B707 cockpit, the jump seat was behind the Cpt and was fixed, no adjustments at all. It would, however tilt forward to allow access to lwr 41 via the grate in the floor immediately behind it. The N/O table was immediately behind that and his seat moved up and down and laterally only. The FEO seat moved up and down as well as laterally. It did not move fore and aft until the late model -300 came on line. Those seats moved diagonally towards the Cpt seat as well as laterally.
It got kind crowded, hot and stuffy with five of us on a hot day ex KHI or some place like that.
That was, of course, on the opposition's aircraft.
It got kind crowded, hot and stuffy with five of us on a hot day ex KHI or some place like that.
That was, of course, on the opposition's aircraft.
Aaaaaaah! Brake Dwell Cocktails. Those were indeed the days.
Am I correct that crews were separate for VC-10 and 707, and indeed on the Comet beforehand as well, if anyone goes that far back ?
This being so, I wonder how some of the long line, multi-stop, different stopping pattern every day of the week routes, particularly round across the Pacific far from base, managed when the occasional schedule transition was made from 707 to VC-10 or vice-versa. Having a different set of slip crews in place from the changeover day must have been a huge exercise.
This being so, I wonder how some of the long line, multi-stop, different stopping pattern every day of the week routes, particularly round across the Pacific far from base, managed when the occasional schedule transition was made from 707 to VC-10 or vice-versa. Having a different set of slip crews in place from the changeover day must have been a huge exercise.
In the case of the cabin crew they flew both 707 and VC10 known on introduction of the 747 Jumbo as Mini fleet.
There were a number of 'non-integrated stations' which meant cabin crew could not switch aircraft types. I can't remember which ones but it it did lead to a lot of very interesting slip patterns!
The plum VC10 trip was Sydney through the West. LHR-JFK-LAX-HNL-Fiji (can't remember 3 letter code) SYD. Then either back the same way or through the East including CMB-BAH. 21 days unless tech or scheduling problems then think of a number.
There were a number of 'non-integrated stations' which meant cabin crew could not switch aircraft types. I can't remember which ones but it it did lead to a lot of very interesting slip patterns!
The plum VC10 trip was Sydney through the West. LHR-JFK-LAX-HNL-Fiji (can't remember 3 letter code) SYD. Then either back the same way or through the East including CMB-BAH. 21 days unless tech or scheduling problems then think of a number.
The long trips, with many stops not served daily - only 1 a week on some routes f'rinstance, we had to stay there for the whole time, life was hard ! - was the reason for flight crews being "posted" to the ends of the Earth for 3 months at a time, Sydney, Tokyo, Hong Kong and even Honolulu for the Pacific services, those crews then effectively only operated half of the route, meeting the UK crews and both then turning around and going back
They weren't all "good" stops of course, Honolulu was counterbalanced by Calcutta etc., swings and roundabouts, as has been noted the best sound to be heard in Lagos was "V1, Rotate" on departure, but it was all part of Life's Rich Pattern.
We stuck for 2 local nights rest after an Atlantic Crossing, to adjust to the time change/jet lag, and when a pattern of arriving in New York in the early evening and returning early the following morning was mooted there was almost a riot. Only Management Captains operated that service initially, but not so for the lesser crew members, and I reported for my first roster on this pattern with some trepidation, but in fact, providing one was 'sensible' and went to bed on arrival and stayed on a mental GMT time zone, one effectively worked an 8 hour day followed by a good 8 hours sleep and another 8 hour day (sort of ) and got back to London in the early evening and went back to bed at home at the regular hour, then one was less fatigued than the crews who were half adjusted after staying in New York longer.
Of course this precluded any socialising or shopping, so we didn't admit it !
Crew allowances, i.e. spending money that could be saved, were only paid on Nth. American routes initially, flying to "the Empire" all expenses were met by the comany contract with the hotel, which meant that all meals had to be taken at the hotel, at times to suit them, not us, and no spare beer money, a system that was eventually abandoned in favour of crew allowances Worldwide, but initially the more senior ex WWII Captains organised themselves to only fly across the Atlantic - and collect their cash - hence the term North Atlantic Barons, that was applied to them! When I started the daily allowance for all meals in the USA was 10 dollars per day, total - hardly Baronial, but the term stuck.
They weren't all "good" stops of course, Honolulu was counterbalanced by Calcutta etc., swings and roundabouts, as has been noted the best sound to be heard in Lagos was "V1, Rotate" on departure, but it was all part of Life's Rich Pattern.
We stuck for 2 local nights rest after an Atlantic Crossing, to adjust to the time change/jet lag, and when a pattern of arriving in New York in the early evening and returning early the following morning was mooted there was almost a riot. Only Management Captains operated that service initially, but not so for the lesser crew members, and I reported for my first roster on this pattern with some trepidation, but in fact, providing one was 'sensible' and went to bed on arrival and stayed on a mental GMT time zone, one effectively worked an 8 hour day followed by a good 8 hours sleep and another 8 hour day (sort of ) and got back to London in the early evening and went back to bed at home at the regular hour, then one was less fatigued than the crews who were half adjusted after staying in New York longer.
Of course this precluded any socialising or shopping, so we didn't admit it !
Crew allowances, i.e. spending money that could be saved, were only paid on Nth. American routes initially, flying to "the Empire" all expenses were met by the comany contract with the hotel, which meant that all meals had to be taken at the hotel, at times to suit them, not us, and no spare beer money, a system that was eventually abandoned in favour of crew allowances Worldwide, but initially the more senior ex WWII Captains organised themselves to only fly across the Atlantic - and collect their cash - hence the term North Atlantic Barons, that was applied to them! When I started the daily allowance for all meals in the USA was 10 dollars per day, total - hardly Baronial, but the term stuck.
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It has been refreshing reading the posts which have brought back many memories. I well remember the Captain who insisted on just red lights in the cockpit. Another who used to cut himself off from the rest of us by dropping the grey curtain (like on the old buses to protect the driver from the cabin lights) behind him and to the side of him. He told me off a few times for leaning across the throttle quadrant to peer into his 'tent' to see if he was still alive! Eastbound to the UK, we knew we were nearly home when the teleprinter burst into life with the latest weather.
How about the early morning freighter (3am departure) LHR-PIK-YUL-JFK (I think). Ex PIK, E/O's BigBen alarm clock waking all five of us up.
There are some good stories of the steward/stewardess 'missfits' who looked after us. Good times.
How about the early morning freighter (3am departure) LHR-PIK-YUL-JFK (I think). Ex PIK, E/O's BigBen alarm clock waking all five of us up.
There are some good stories of the steward/stewardess 'missfits' who looked after us. Good times.
Not only Captains. There was once a pattern that had the 2 F/O's change at Rome, whereas the Capt. & F/Eng. flew Beirut,Rome, London. The two new F/O's appeared at Rome, one climbed into the right hand seat and started the checks and, after T/off as P3, the other took a pillow and blanket down through the grille below the Nav table, and bedded down in the electronics bay below the flight deck.
Halfway to LHR the grille clanged open and they changed places.
The Capt. looked on in amazement, and said to the F/Eng. - "I don't mind him not talking, but who the fcuk is he ?
Halfway to LHR the grille clanged open and they changed places.
The Capt. looked on in amazement, and said to the F/Eng. - "I don't mind him not talking, but who the fcuk is he ?
Paxing All Over The World
Many thanks for all the stroies and the 'that was almost us' moments. When I first became a pax (almost exactly 49 years ago) the VC10 still had sextents of course. I recall seeing them when getting my Junior Jet Club Log Book signed and visiting the flight deck!
I'd like to quote a navigation story from WWII, as it seems relevant and I certainly don't need to start another thread. This is a small extract from my father's (out of print) book Pursuit Through Darkened Skies: An Ace Night-fighter Crew in WWII (Airlife's Classics) by Michael Allen DFC (Author) Publisher: The Crowood Press Ltd.
My father became a specialist Radar and Radio Operator working with Fl Sgt Harry White Sgt Harry White [later] Air Commodore White CBE, AFC, DFC and 2 Bars on the 'Night Intruder' role - but that was to come. At one stage they were temporaril attached to a delivery unit to ferry new Beaus to Cairo. This is much abbreviated and here to illustrate the problems of navigating the desert in 1943 ...
By the 11th February 1943 we had picked up a brand new Beaufighter from Bristol’s factory at Filton and were flying it round the Irish Sea on a fuel consumption test. This lasted for 5.05hrs and we then took it back into Lyneham, to prepare for our departure to the Mediterranean. Collecting the Beau from Filton was rather like buying a new car - without having to pay for it! At Lyneham we learned that we were going to fly Beaufighter V8646 out to Cairo as part of the reinforcement programme for the Beaufighter Squadrons in the Middle East.
Our route out would start at Portreath on the North Cornish coast and then via Gibraltar; French North Africa; Libya (recently liberated by the 8th Army); Cyreniaca and on to LG 224 at Cairo. We would probably be going in company with four or five other Beaus, although not in formation.
We left Lyneham on the 19th February in V8646 and headed South West for Portreath on the North Cornish Coast. At 8.05 hrs. on the following morning we set off for Gibraltar. With a good Met. forecast we passed over The Scillies and turned South across the Bay of Biscay for Cape Finisterre. My Log Book reads:-
Hit Finisterre on the dot and then plain sailing i.e. flying down the Portuguese Coast, outside Territorial Waters and turning Left, when we got to the Mediterranean. All of us landed within 10 minutes of each other. Our flying time was 5.40 hrs.
We had a day in Gib, feeling very important and cocky having made it and completing the first 1,000 miles of our journey to Cairo without any hitches. On the 22nd we took off from the strip at Gibraltar and set course for the French North African Coast and a place called Blida, I wrote as follows:-
Met. w/v [wind velcocity] - given to us at GIB - not so good. P.P. on Tenes, then saw Algiers before going in. What a BL**DER of a place. Flying time 2.55 hrs.
We flew on the following morning, climbing over the Atlas Mountains and, although our destination was the recently captured Italian airfield at Tripoli, we had to fly a dog leg out over the Desert. This was to keep us and our new aeroplane clear of the fighting which was still going on, as the 1st and 8th Armies advanced to squeeze the Germans out of Africa.
Our route lay via Touggart and Gaadames to Castel Benito, but I don’t recall seeing either of these two places. The trip took us 4.55 hrs. but there is no mention in my Log Book of the struggle I had with the sheaf of maps I had picked up at Gib and my efforts to distinguish a Second Class Camel Track from a First Class Camel Track, as we cruised at 8,000 ft. over the Sahara Desert … and thought perhaps we should have joined the French Foreign Legion with Beau Geste and his brothers rather than the RAF.
I should mention, for the uninitiated, that a First Class Camel Track was shown on our maps with two dotted lines, whereas the other had only one dotted line. They looked fine on the map but when I looked down from my cupola in the back of the Beau, I saw neither tracks nor camels!
I'd like to quote a navigation story from WWII, as it seems relevant and I certainly don't need to start another thread. This is a small extract from my father's (out of print) book Pursuit Through Darkened Skies: An Ace Night-fighter Crew in WWII (Airlife's Classics) by Michael Allen DFC (Author) Publisher: The Crowood Press Ltd.
My father became a specialist Radar and Radio Operator working with Fl Sgt Harry White Sgt Harry White [later] Air Commodore White CBE, AFC, DFC and 2 Bars on the 'Night Intruder' role - but that was to come. At one stage they were temporaril attached to a delivery unit to ferry new Beaus to Cairo. This is much abbreviated and here to illustrate the problems of navigating the desert in 1943 ...
By the 11th February 1943 we had picked up a brand new Beaufighter from Bristol’s factory at Filton and were flying it round the Irish Sea on a fuel consumption test. This lasted for 5.05hrs and we then took it back into Lyneham, to prepare for our departure to the Mediterranean. Collecting the Beau from Filton was rather like buying a new car - without having to pay for it! At Lyneham we learned that we were going to fly Beaufighter V8646 out to Cairo as part of the reinforcement programme for the Beaufighter Squadrons in the Middle East.
Our route out would start at Portreath on the North Cornish coast and then via Gibraltar; French North Africa; Libya (recently liberated by the 8th Army); Cyreniaca and on to LG 224 at Cairo. We would probably be going in company with four or five other Beaus, although not in formation.
We left Lyneham on the 19th February in V8646 and headed South West for Portreath on the North Cornish Coast. At 8.05 hrs. on the following morning we set off for Gibraltar. With a good Met. forecast we passed over The Scillies and turned South across the Bay of Biscay for Cape Finisterre. My Log Book reads:-
Hit Finisterre on the dot and then plain sailing i.e. flying down the Portuguese Coast, outside Territorial Waters and turning Left, when we got to the Mediterranean. All of us landed within 10 minutes of each other. Our flying time was 5.40 hrs.
We had a day in Gib, feeling very important and cocky having made it and completing the first 1,000 miles of our journey to Cairo without any hitches. On the 22nd we took off from the strip at Gibraltar and set course for the French North African Coast and a place called Blida, I wrote as follows:-
Met. w/v [wind velcocity] - given to us at GIB - not so good. P.P. on Tenes, then saw Algiers before going in. What a BL**DER of a place. Flying time 2.55 hrs.
We flew on the following morning, climbing over the Atlas Mountains and, although our destination was the recently captured Italian airfield at Tripoli, we had to fly a dog leg out over the Desert. This was to keep us and our new aeroplane clear of the fighting which was still going on, as the 1st and 8th Armies advanced to squeeze the Germans out of Africa.
Our route lay via Touggart and Gaadames to Castel Benito, but I don’t recall seeing either of these two places. The trip took us 4.55 hrs. but there is no mention in my Log Book of the struggle I had with the sheaf of maps I had picked up at Gib and my efforts to distinguish a Second Class Camel Track from a First Class Camel Track, as we cruised at 8,000 ft. over the Sahara Desert … and thought perhaps we should have joined the French Foreign Legion with Beau Geste and his brothers rather than the RAF.
I should mention, for the uninitiated, that a First Class Camel Track was shown on our maps with two dotted lines, whereas the other had only one dotted line. They looked fine on the map but when I looked down from my cupola in the back of the Beau, I saw neither tracks nor camels!
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No Duncan Sinclair.
A very good golfer and upset a few captains who did a round with him in NBO - I don't play but remember having to keep the peace.
IIRC he lived in some fairly remote part of Scotland and his journey to work involved a few miles walking followed by transport to Glasgee and then BEA to work.
Most of the stewardesses (A ladies) couldn't understand why he wasn't married (to one of them).
Maybe he was winding me up!!
I well remember an arrival in HKG where we had gone over Cheung Chau at 8000ft? and 300knots and him saying to the captain "your a f''''''g idiot".
Mirrored my thoughts exactly.
One of the nicest persons I have ever met.
A very good golfer and upset a few captains who did a round with him in NBO - I don't play but remember having to keep the peace.
IIRC he lived in some fairly remote part of Scotland and his journey to work involved a few miles walking followed by transport to Glasgee and then BEA to work.
Most of the stewardesses (A ladies) couldn't understand why he wasn't married (to one of them).
Maybe he was winding me up!!
I well remember an arrival in HKG where we had gone over Cheung Chau at 8000ft? and 300knots and him saying to the captain "your a f''''''g idiot".
Mirrored my thoughts exactly.
One of the nicest persons I have ever met.
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I was one of those male cabin crew misfit on the 707 freighters for a while as well as the Standard and Super VC.10s and 436 -Conway engined 707s. They wouldnt let the girlies fly alone with all those men at that time-cant imagine why??!!
Kept the crew fed and watered (and awake ) for many long night sectors from Hong Kong etc.
Having fed one crew was told not to worry about coming up with coffee etc later-but they would call back if they needed anything. A fairly long time passed and I thought they surely would be wanting breakfast/coffee etc by now-so popped my head in to see -only to find the flt engineer asleep along with both pilots!! A polite cough and a louder call asking "WOULD YOU LIKE A COFFEE NOW CAPTAIN " quickly brought them around with an embarrassed look and a rapid instrument scan!!
Kept the crew fed and watered (and awake ) for many long night sectors from Hong Kong etc.
Having fed one crew was told not to worry about coming up with coffee etc later-but they would call back if they needed anything. A fairly long time passed and I thought they surely would be wanting breakfast/coffee etc by now-so popped my head in to see -only to find the flt engineer asleep along with both pilots!! A polite cough and a louder call asking "WOULD YOU LIKE A COFFEE NOW CAPTAIN " quickly brought them around with an embarrassed look and a rapid instrument scan!!
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Quick check of my Logbook, and there was definitely a Stewardess looking after us in March 1979 on B707 GATWV DXB-LHR. In later life, I really came to love flying on freighters, but self-service by then of course. On the 707 freighter, we were able to order our food the day before, so we did eat well. In later life the freighter food was crap, so a quick stop at M & S or whatever on the way to the airport was essential. Happy days.
But it was not only male cabin crew. I remember one trip on a 707 freighter out to Hong Kong and back - three hairy a+sed airmen with one angelic blonde angel to look after them. Untouchable but beautiful!!
Another North Atlantic Baron story.
707 crew arrived in Anchorage, and the Captain asked if, instead of one of the routine crew menu/meals the following day, he could have a round of Roast Beef sandwiches instead, on Rye bread ? The Alaskan, or indeed any U.S. State, "sandwich" being a little more than the miserable curly cornered little "sandwich" that one remembers as a sandwich in the UK. No problem, said the Stn.Staff.
On departure day the Duty Officer attended to the departure, got the Load Sheet signed, doors closed, watched chocks away and went back to her office to complete the paperwork.
Not long afterwards she received a call from the Control Tower asking what was the problem with the Speedbird 851 ? Nothing, she said, I despatched it about 15 mins ago, well said the Tower, it's still here. Finding a vehicle the D.O. drove out to the aircraft, plugged in a headset and asked what the problem was. I haven't got my roast beef sandwiches on Rye, said the Captain.
He got them ( that's why they call it Contingency Fuel )
N.Atl.B's could do that.
707 crew arrived in Anchorage, and the Captain asked if, instead of one of the routine crew menu/meals the following day, he could have a round of Roast Beef sandwiches instead, on Rye bread ? The Alaskan, or indeed any U.S. State, "sandwich" being a little more than the miserable curly cornered little "sandwich" that one remembers as a sandwich in the UK. No problem, said the Stn.Staff.
On departure day the Duty Officer attended to the departure, got the Load Sheet signed, doors closed, watched chocks away and went back to her office to complete the paperwork.
Not long afterwards she received a call from the Control Tower asking what was the problem with the Speedbird 851 ? Nothing, she said, I despatched it about 15 mins ago, well said the Tower, it's still here. Finding a vehicle the D.O. drove out to the aircraft, plugged in a headset and asked what the problem was. I haven't got my roast beef sandwiches on Rye, said the Captain.
He got them ( that's why they call it Contingency Fuel )
N.Atl.B's could do that.
And yet another Atlantic Baron story.
There was a certain captain on Britannias who was exceedingly proud of his smart appearance. When he travelled by train to Heathrow to fly (people did in those days) he always kept an immaculately pressed pair of uniform trousers in his locker in 221 (the old 221 on North Side) so that he could change before going out to the aircraft.
There was another captain who was an inveterate practical joker. One day he broke into the locker and removed the trousers. When the 'captain of the immaculate appearance' found his trousers missing, he refused to fly until they were found.
History does not recount how long that trans-Atlantic flight was delayed!
There was a certain captain on Britannias who was exceedingly proud of his smart appearance. When he travelled by train to Heathrow to fly (people did in those days) he always kept an immaculately pressed pair of uniform trousers in his locker in 221 (the old 221 on North Side) so that he could change before going out to the aircraft.
There was another captain who was an inveterate practical joker. One day he broke into the locker and removed the trousers. When the 'captain of the immaculate appearance' found his trousers missing, he refused to fly until they were found.
History does not recount how long that trans-Atlantic flight was delayed!
I think with the introduction of 'equality' in the late 70's the all male freighter steward rule was scrapped.
I remember opening a roster for a freighter trip was a bit like opening a Christmas present. You never knew what you were going to get.
There were a group of permanent freighter stewards who, by hook or usually by crook, had got themselves restricted to 'light duties'. As an aside in later days there were a similar group who got themselves restricted to only working the Under Floor Galley on the Tristar - NICE
Some of the trips were very interesting and often included slips in places that a normal flight would not have gone.
I saw everything from baby elephants, dolphins to pallets loaded with gold bars. The gold was a nuisance as getting the trim right meant sitting around for hours. The dolphin was accompanied by a keeper who sat with me on the jump seat and wiped our important guest with some kind of jelly to keep it alive.
Imagine this: we had a small duty free bar on freighters containing half bottles of Scotch, Gin, Brandy and beers for sale to the crew.
One job the cabin crew had was to organise the catering and we would order up special meals such as curries and steak pies for the lads.
My only bad memory of freighters was a long Eastern trip with the same pilots. I had gone out of my way to organise the best meals, research the best watering holes in advance and generally care for them. Nearing the end of the trip was a positioning sector on a non BA airline. The Captain walked up to the check in desk and handed over the tickets 'three First Class and one in Economy'. He very forcefully said.
Still remember it and always thought it would have been nice to say 'three of us have First is there any chance of an upgrade for our cabin crew member?'
That said it was a great experience and much enjoyed.
I remember opening a roster for a freighter trip was a bit like opening a Christmas present. You never knew what you were going to get.
There were a group of permanent freighter stewards who, by hook or usually by crook, had got themselves restricted to 'light duties'. As an aside in later days there were a similar group who got themselves restricted to only working the Under Floor Galley on the Tristar - NICE
Some of the trips were very interesting and often included slips in places that a normal flight would not have gone.
I saw everything from baby elephants, dolphins to pallets loaded with gold bars. The gold was a nuisance as getting the trim right meant sitting around for hours. The dolphin was accompanied by a keeper who sat with me on the jump seat and wiped our important guest with some kind of jelly to keep it alive.
Imagine this: we had a small duty free bar on freighters containing half bottles of Scotch, Gin, Brandy and beers for sale to the crew.
One job the cabin crew had was to organise the catering and we would order up special meals such as curries and steak pies for the lads.
My only bad memory of freighters was a long Eastern trip with the same pilots. I had gone out of my way to organise the best meals, research the best watering holes in advance and generally care for them. Nearing the end of the trip was a positioning sector on a non BA airline. The Captain walked up to the check in desk and handed over the tickets 'three First Class and one in Economy'. He very forcefully said.
Still remember it and always thought it would have been nice to say 'three of us have First is there any chance of an upgrade for our cabin crew member?'
That said it was a great experience and much enjoyed.
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Around 1973-75 the period I was relating it was definately only male cabin crew on the freighters. I think it started to change around 1975 when the equality laws etc all changed.
I enjoyed working the freighters apart from the fact that at many destinations-you would stay in different hotels to the flight deck crew-so would sometimes be on your own for a day or two-which for me was no problem anyway.
Some of the more sociable crews would invite you to join them for dinner etc anyway.
I recall carrying a White Rhino and a handler from I think Hong Kong to Delhi or another Indian city .?
I enjoyed working the freighters apart from the fact that at many destinations-you would stay in different hotels to the flight deck crew-so would sometimes be on your own for a day or two-which for me was no problem anyway.
Some of the more sociable crews would invite you to join them for dinner etc anyway.
I recall carrying a White Rhino and a handler from I think Hong Kong to Delhi or another Indian city .?
My late father was a FE on the 707 with BOAC in the 60's and later the 747. I'll have a look through his logbooks when I get a bit more time for details of some of the interesting/exotic routings. Looking back in later life he always reckoned that he'd seen the best years of the airline business, and I reckon he was right.
Last edited by Private jet; 5th Dec 2014 at 11:59.
Here's a trip from July 1969.
(G-APFD) London-Zurich-Beirut-Karachi [24 hr slip] (G-ARRB)- Calcutta-Singapore [48 hr slip] (G-APFK)- Darwin-Sydney [18 hr slip] (G-ARWD)- Nandi [72 hr slip] (G-APFC) -Honolulu [48 hr slip] (G-APFB)- San Francisco [78 hr slip] (G-ARWD)- New York . Pax to London
The Captain was Leo Budd. My father didn't record the FO's names sorry. But I know they were all sat in a bar in Waikiki watching the first moon landing on TV.
Some long duty days too, FTL's didn't arrive until the early 70's I understand, but he did have 12 days off after the trip to recover(!) Eastbound around the world though must be a tough gig though.
(G-APFD) London-Zurich-Beirut-Karachi [24 hr slip] (G-ARRB)- Calcutta-Singapore [48 hr slip] (G-APFK)- Darwin-Sydney [18 hr slip] (G-ARWD)- Nandi [72 hr slip] (G-APFC) -Honolulu [48 hr slip] (G-APFB)- San Francisco [78 hr slip] (G-ARWD)- New York . Pax to London
The Captain was Leo Budd. My father didn't record the FO's names sorry. But I know they were all sat in a bar in Waikiki watching the first moon landing on TV.
Some long duty days too, FTL's didn't arrive until the early 70's I understand, but he did have 12 days off after the trip to recover(!) Eastbound around the world though must be a tough gig though.