TAA and the DC-9
Thread Starter
TAA and the DC-9
Why did TAA continue to operate or the reasoning behind operating the DC-9 up until the pilots dispute?
Ansett had phased out their DC-9 operation by 1981, so TAA would have been competing agianst the new B737-200 and then 300 on certain routes.
Did TAA have plans to start a low cost airline with the DC-9 aircraft?
Ansett had phased out their DC-9 operation by 1981, so TAA would have been competing agianst the new B737-200 and then 300 on certain routes.
Did TAA have plans to start a low cost airline with the DC-9 aircraft?
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During 1981, Ansett commenced the withdrawal of the DC-9 from its fleet as new Boeing 737-200s were delivered. The last route for Ansett's DC-9 was flown by VH-CZA on June 17 1982 from Launceston to Melbourne.
FYI
FYI
I thought that TAA did the smart thing in keeping the DC9 in service until the B737-300 became available. Ansett (ie Abeles) bought the B737-200 as an interim aircraft until the B737-300 arrived. This was a very expensive process and the resale value of the -200s was significantly reduced once the high bypass turbo-fan equipped -300s started coming off the production line. TAA only had to introduce one type of aircraft and thus had lower "change over" costs. IMHO
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TAA also carried out a minor upgrade program on it's DC9's in order to compete with the 737-200's at Ansett. Cabin interior was refurbished, including addition of overhead bins in place of the old hat racks, minor avionic upgrades and an engine synch system .... which was a blessing for people sitting down the back!!
The DC9 was a great aircraft at TAA and served them well until the CFM powered 737's came along.
The DC9 was a great aircraft at TAA and served them well until the CFM powered 737's came along.
Quite simple really. Firstly the DC 9 was a superior aircraft to it's competitor 737.200. Similar operating costs, lower purchase cost, and more passenger appeal.
Secondly TAA was not being run by people lining their pockets from every new airframe introduced.
M
Secondly TAA was not being run by people lining their pockets from every new airframe introduced.
M
Evertonian
I don't think Abeles did anything smart for Ansett. During his era, he made choices based on his business practice, all show & no substance.
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The 732 purchase allowed the Fat Man to pocket yet another hefty commission before pocketing yet another commission for the 733s.
On to less controversial matters: I don't think there'd be a single ex-TAA/Australian Airlines driver who went straight from the Diesel 9 to the 733 who wouldn't say it was a very steep learning curve, particularly since because of a major screwup by Jimmy Bowtie's bean counters, where line training hadn't been included in their plan to introduce the new type.
Someone who was directly involved will correct me if my memory's playing tricks on me, but I think each DC9 pilot completed only four sectors on the 733 before being cleared to the line - agreed upon by the AFAP and the AA pilots on the understanding that there would be a major payback on the part of the company when the next award was agreed upon.
That next award came up in a year all too familiar to many here - 1989... and to say the company did not reward their pilots for the way they (the pilots) helped the company get around the bean counters' screwup might be the understatement of all time.
On to less controversial matters: I don't think there'd be a single ex-TAA/Australian Airlines driver who went straight from the Diesel 9 to the 733 who wouldn't say it was a very steep learning curve, particularly since because of a major screwup by Jimmy Bowtie's bean counters, where line training hadn't been included in their plan to introduce the new type.
Someone who was directly involved will correct me if my memory's playing tricks on me, but I think each DC9 pilot completed only four sectors on the 733 before being cleared to the line - agreed upon by the AFAP and the AA pilots on the understanding that there would be a major payback on the part of the company when the next award was agreed upon.
That next award came up in a year all too familiar to many here - 1989... and to say the company did not reward their pilots for the way they (the pilots) helped the company get around the bean counters' screwup might be the understatement of all time.
Taa Dc-9/b-737
Actually TAA had ceased to exist by 1989, having become "Australian Airlines" in 1986.
Additionally, Australian introduced the B737-300 before Ansett did.
Going Boeing, maui and Buster have all hit the nail on the head.
Ansett would probably have been better waiting for the B737-300 as well, but their fleet decisions were not necessarily made on purely commercial grounds. Perhaps the joint Chairman of TAA/Australian was unable to get a lunch date with (former US President) Jimmy Carter.
Additionally, Australian introduced the B737-300 before Ansett did.
Going Boeing, maui and Buster have all hit the nail on the head.
Ansett would probably have been better waiting for the B737-300 as well, but their fleet decisions were not necessarily made on purely commercial grounds. Perhaps the joint Chairman of TAA/Australian was unable to get a lunch date with (former US President) Jimmy Carter.
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confused:
Stationair 8,
Unless my memory is playing tricks - the DC-9 was fully withdrawn from service by Aug 89 (the dispute). The 733 was introduced in 86 & 87 with the relaunch as Australian Airlines.
Part of the steep learning curve referred to above was the fact that a 733 had much lower flap speeds and less powerfull speed brakes so the DC-9 drivers could no longer comfortably hold 300kts to 10 DME and still get in!
.
Here's some Nostalgia for you
Photos: McDonnell Douglas DC-9-31 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
or
YouTube - TAA (Trans Australia Airlines):
and
YouTube - TAA The Friendly Way 1960s
Stationair 8,
Unless my memory is playing tricks - the DC-9 was fully withdrawn from service by Aug 89 (the dispute). The 733 was introduced in 86 & 87 with the relaunch as Australian Airlines.
Part of the steep learning curve referred to above was the fact that a 733 had much lower flap speeds and less powerfull speed brakes so the DC-9 drivers could no longer comfortably hold 300kts to 10 DME and still get in!
. Here's some Nostalgia for you
Photos: McDonnell Douglas DC-9-31 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
or
YouTube - TAA (Trans Australia Airlines):
and
YouTube - TAA The Friendly Way 1960s
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"Unless my memory is playing tricks - the DC-9 was fully withdrawn from service by Aug 89"
I recall a TN DC9 being stuck in HBA during the dispute. The bored ground crew used it to practice pushbacks and towing skills around the apron all day long.
I recall a TN DC9 being stuck in HBA during the dispute. The bored ground crew used it to practice pushbacks and towing skills around the apron all day long.
The DC 9 was still in service up to "that date". It was however in the process of being withdrawn.
My last flight on the 9 and with Australian was HBA-LST-MEL on the 22nd of August "that year".
M
My last flight on the 9 and with Australian was HBA-LST-MEL on the 22nd of August "that year".
M
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A bit off topic but I miss TAA/Australian Airlines, its sad we lost a big part of Australian aviation when they were taken over by Qantas. My father worked for TAA then Australian Airlines and I have fond memories of flying with them, and had my first jump seat ride in an Australian Airlines 737 into a stormy Brisbane Airport at night!
YouTube - Australian Airlines (Australian Television Ad) 1986 HD
YouTube - Australian Airlines (Australian Television Ad) 1986 HD
Silly Old Git
Those were the days, 45 mins Melb - Lauceston and a full meal served in business and economy!!
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Ah, the DC9 one of the sexiest, female, bitchy, beautiful, Aircraft ever built. Any pilot who strapped her to his ar#e was privileged, she was a Pilots aircraft like the 707, and we loved her with a passion. I had the privilege of breaking a speed record with her from SYD to Willie in 8 mins 14 seconds with a 125 tail wind behind me, empty, with a F/O and one male C/C on a repostioning sector, asking the ATC for some clean air (he was aware what I was trying to achieve, you could in those days) and we flattened her. F111 eat your heart out. My understanding was the reason for keeping the DC9 instead of going over to the 737 (at that point) was basically about traffic. If you could not fill a 727 on a sector then replace with a pocket rocket. 100 seats against 150 made financial sense. I ended up blundering around the sky on the airbus, ( I had four little tackers to feed by then) I used to look with envy as a DC9 came off a arm, wishing, oh well. I shall go to bed tonight dreaming of a Col FD108. (I hope I have not offended any female pilot with my description of the DC9, if I have I did not mean to, it was simply in our dumb way, the way we saw her).
