ATC IssuesA place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.
Stop doing bloody overtime and coming in on your days off sucking up to management.
LateStay I'm sorry, but why should people stop doing AAVAs? The pensions affect almost everyone in the company, yet you are asking the minority to take a course of action to protect the future of the pension for all. The only way that management will wake up and see what the feeling of the workforce actually is, will be for everyone to take action and I suspect the only way this would happen is the threat ( and follow through if necessary) of strike action.
I, like Caesartheboogeyman will continue doing AAVAs until the union say that we should stop doing them.
You dont get it do you.. NATS cant operate effectively without overtime. Forget the short term greed and get a life on your days off
When it comes down to it, AAVAs are all about greed.
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personally will still do them if and when i feel like it. Not everyone is top of the scale and an aava here and there goes a long way.
... makes it sound like ATCOs on the lower points scales are poor. Even the first point of the ACTO 3, band 1 is a decent wage. Greedy b*st*rds.
There will be no NATS strike in 2008 or 2009, mark my words. The AAVA generation will be too sh1t scared of their big mortgages to lose a day or so wages.
You will all now have seen the joint statement regarding the pension proposals.
We would like to make it clear that there are two parallel consultation processes which will now take place.
The first is a requirement upon NATS to consult with all members of the pension scheme on specific proposed change. NATS and the NATS Trade Union Side will be supporting the process to explain the joint proposal.
The second is a full trade union consultation which will culminate in a ballot of all trade union members by each of the constituent trade union groups.
In order to allow members to make an informed decision the NTUS and NATS will be holding briefings at all units.
The details of these briefings will be notified to you by local unit managers and each one will be formed of two distinct parts, the first part being a joint session with management and the second a trade union briefing for trade union members only which will be conducted by members of the NATS Trade Union Side.
We would urge all members to make every effort to attend one of these briefing sessions.
Tony Blair " Our skies are not for sale" Actually they were, but our union said don't worry we won't let that happen.
Backward step, actually our union will let it happen, but we will stop SERCO running NATS, the airline group is a good option ladies and gentlemen they said. BUT DON't WORRY YOUR PENSION IS SAFE AND THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS WON'T CHANGE, they said. Like Lambs to the slaughter we all agreed and believed our union reps knew what they were doing.
A few years later the pension is threatened. " DONT WORRY THEY SAID, ONE NATS ONE PENSION" That is the way and what we will fight for.
What have we here, yet another large backward step, so there will be 2 pension schemes after all. A deal worked on by the hard working reps who have sold us down the river so often that they all have a major shareholding in Hoseasons holidays!!!
ENOUGH ENOUGH. Vote NO, on this offer. Think back to what has happened over the years, in a few years our glorious union reps will agree that the "old" scheme is unsustainable because management has told them so.
That powder is so so dry it is about time that we set it alight,the pension is what we all work for, I will not be happy working alongside colleagues I have shafted and who will out number me in years to come and take delight in closing my pension down.
ONE NATS ONE PENSION IS WHAT I WAS TOLD WHAT I WANT AND WHAT I BELIVE WE SHOULD FIGHT FOR.
I'm genuinely surprised that there is no big "carrot" to encourage acceptance
Carrots taste much nicer when you dont think you are ever going to have one... Could well be a waiting game, test the waters etc, then if you need those extra few - throw a little cash around, suddenly everyone is happy!
You dont get it do you.. NATS cant operate effectively without overtime. Forget the short term greed and get a life on your days off.
It is nobody else's business but mine whether I work overtime or not. It is nobody else's business other than mine what I consider to be my acceptable work/life balance.
Hmmm now lets see..... so we fight for one pension and come January the company is forced by the actuaries to start paying a contribution rate of 40ish percent. The airlines will not allow this cost to be passed on and neither will the regulator, so NATS has to foot the bill. Thats got to be near to a 100 million pounds a year in savings needing to be made. Now I know for a fact a certain large unit in Hampshire has struggled to make a 9 million pounds saving in a couple of years, so what chance do they have... none.
Either the company goes bust or they have to start selling bits. First to go will be NSL with its loss making contracts and high pension costs. Now i'm not sure about those covered by the trust promise but the rest of us are knackered as the new owner only has to endeavor!!! to maintain the current scheme. If bits aren't sold the company will go bust, and the government will be called upon to bail us out. They'll probably do it but then its the same situation again new owner will get hold of us and then its new terms and conditions and bye bye pension anyway for alot of us.
Don't be too hasty to slam this new deal because the alternative may not be much better. Get all the info first then get angry if you need to.
So the government has to bail us out, who then will buy us???
Why do NSL have loss making contracts, who negotiated these contracts???? Its about time the BAA paid the going rate for the NATS expertise, lets call their bluff and see which companies could run ATC at Heathrow/ Gatwick etc.
If Nats goes bust will we all become civil servants again, seem to remember the civil service pension is excellent!!!!!
Is our final pension still going to be based on 58ths of our FULL final salary at retirement, or the pensionable part. If the latter, then over 15 years the difference between the two could be over 16% if pay is RPI+1.5% vs cap of RPI+0.5%), i.e. you pension will be based on 58th of 84% of final salary at retirement!
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This would more than double the employer contribution rate of 20% currently agreed with the Trustees and would represent employer contributions of around £125m per year. Incurring these kinds of costs could turn NATS into a loss-making company.
- - - Oh dear .. what a shame NATS could make a loss!
What about us the controllers that have put X amount of years hard work into a fantastic job to be screwed over by a company that seems hell-bent on making sure that we all make a personal loss instead of them!
In 3 years time the 'credit crunch' will be a distant memory and I will still be working in the same room as I am today on the same terms and conditions as I am today - I will not be sold down the river of NATS doom and I hope you are all with me.
One Pension (the current one if you please) or strike. Simple as.
Just one day of a full NATS strike and we will see how this country functions - the media will ask why can't the military controllers take over.
Two days of a strike - X amount of airlines go bust (including BA, BMI but not Ryanair) - the media will say we are greedy (and Ryanair press dep. have a field day!).
Three days of a strike - media reporters in the wrong places relying on Virgin Trains. Media going ballistic showing pictures of control towers and parked aircraft (Sun headline: "Would the last person to leave Britain please turn the lights out?" - no they used that one already!) and infrastructure of Britain at a general standstill.
We do a good job. Keep the pension as it is and then we can all have a good moan about something else for a change!
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[/b]Oh dear .. what a shame NATS could make a loss!
What about us the controllers that have put X amount of years hard work into a fantastic job
Uuumm bittertwisted who do you think NATS is? Some faceless entity? You and me and your buddies and mine are 'NATS' and if we make a loss our company (yes we are a company) go to the wall. Where's our pension then? Megaphone 25 makes a good point, cool heads, examine the deal, look at what it offers and think about the options. Less of the knee jerk "one out all out brothers" responses which appear to be in the main so far. The company, OUR company, has promised briefings, consultations and lots more information on the way, so lets have a read through first.
BD yes I do think NATS is a faceless entity that doesn't give a stuff about its employees..
We will still be needed under whatever our new name will be and hopefully (haha!) we will get the same terms and conditions .. I totally understand your point and I do think we need to weigh up the options but also we need to tell them if we think the options suck and be man (or woman) enough to stand up for what is right and deserved.
My loyalty is given to my sectors, my colleagues and my life and not at the moment to the company that pays my wage and is trying to get out of paying my current pension so it can put all the money made from our hard work into a bank/the red barons platinum pockets/the CTC chocolate teapot!!! (and before I get an absolute kicking .. yes I know that they all do wonderful work .. when they aren't posting on NATSNET topics!)
Having had a quick check of my pay slip today they (the faceless entity!) are paying 66% of what I'm paying into the fund .. How the hell does that work! (accountancy isn't my thing so I stand to be corrected if I have misinterpreted how the info is presented!)
If I become really brave enough to stand up for what I believe in and whats fair I will emigrate to somewhere that will provide me with what I need. I really hope that won't be the case.
Also folks don't diss the reps too much .. I think it is called a rock and a hard place!
Apologies for spelling I will edit tomorrow if needs be!
Perhaps if NATS spent half as much time and money and effort as it has on convincing us the pension is beyond redemption on petitioning the regulator and or government to allow it to charge for all of it's costs rather than just some, the situation may be different.
Which other companies, or indeed businesses, charge for a service knowing that charge will not cover it's costs. Why has nobody challenged this ridiculous 'cost passthrough' thing. Apparently NATS is supposed to be a profit making business.(Don't say it will require a change of legislation so can't be done, as I seem to think PPP'ing NATS required a certain amount of civil service work too!)
Also, if this new 'deal' comes to pass, how about a review in 5 or so years when hopefully the economic markets will be on the up again. If the surplus is back or growing, perhaps revert back to the current status quo.
I thought that each person had an individual choice to opt in to Smart.If you opt out,then you have to wait a year to opt in again,unless you have a lifestyle change.This is HMRC information.Didn't see that in the statement.
Smart is a tax loophole.It surprising that the Gov.uk haven't closed that one off.Probably since they started this pension problem,they thought it better kept open.
Careful account needs to be taken of all pay-related benefits to ensure they are not reduced by the salary sacrifice. Items like overtime, shift etc may be calculated by reference to the basic rate.
Since we are on a final salary scheme, does that mean that by going for a SMART pension, my final salary pension would be reduced? If so, by how much?
Forget the short term greed and get a life on your days off 
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