Worst excuse for a bad landing?

[strafer]

On a KLM LHR to AMS flight last Friday evening, the pilot managed the heaviest landing I've experienced in around 400 flights in cattle class. While taxiing to the gate, he explained to the passengers that it had been caused by, 'the hardness of the asphalt on the new runway'.

I doubt it was wind shear, so was it just a new co-pilot cock-up?

[expedite_climb]

new co-pilot cock-up?

I've seen some captains do pretty crap landings too.

Why does the world seem to think they have the right to comment and pass judgement on pilots' landings. All office workers will have made cock ups in their time and they dont have the public judge them.....

Strafer - I see you have a PPL. Perhaps you should know better. How would feel if your pax critiscised your slightly less than perfect touch down ?

[Dantruck]

Touch a nerve, did he, expedite_climb?:hmm:

[18greens]

One I heard was the captain reported the hardness of the landing was due to the fact the runway had been relaid since he was last there and was six inches higher than before.

[strafer]

expedite_climb keep your Alans on!

My point wasn't that I don't make bad landings myself - in fact I'm excellent at bad landings - it was that if I tried to tell my passengers it was because the new runway was too hard, they'd laugh at me.

[NWSRG]

Maybe I'm way off track here, but is it possible that the pilot was sharing a joke at his own expense?

[Wave Drag Jones]

I suspect NWSRG is right, these pilots surely made the comments in jest.

[expedite_climb]

Sorry - came across a little harsh, and wasnt really directed at you entirely strafer. I'm just get irritated the way people think they can judge us.

As for 'hard asphalt', cripes its scarey that the guy thought that was a reasonable excuse.

[zerozero]

I was jumpseating on a 727-100 when a senior captain pounded it in.

He tried to explain to me that the main gear sit so far behind the CG that when you rotate the nose the main gear slams down.

True comment I suppose, but trying to make an excuse seems kinda tacky.

Besides that, as long as you're on centerline, on speed and in the touchdown zone, who cares?

Peace:cool:

[Final 3 Greens]

As a PPLer pax, I don't mind the hard landings, they make me feel better about my arrivals ;)

It's the very occasional (apparent) floaters that worry me.

[FLARE DAMIT]

expedite_ , My goodness, get a life. If you cant take criticism over a simple landing, then get out the kitchen, your girls blouse might catch alight. Pilots are usually made of sterner stuff, take it on the chin, i promise you wont be psycologicaly scared for life. In fact it could improve it. LEARN. If you have an equal amount of landings to take off's then your doing ok.

[wingview]

Is it possible that on a new runway the surface is much more slippery and that you have to "dump" it on the rwy to get more grip (same thing on a wet rwy etc.)...

[Maxrev]

I've had a fair share of clangers at AMS, maybe the rumway is a bit too hard!

Worst I ever experienced (in the back) was a KLMuk Fokker 100 at AMS - given that particular aircraft's penchant for collapsing gear, I was a little worried!

[T_richard]

AS a SLF I like the concept of X = Y where X = the number of landings and Y = the number of takeoffs. It has a ring of survival to it.

[sean1]

''Er.. sorry 'bout that folks but the runway sort of sneaked up on me!''

heard over the PA on arrival at SYD one summers day...

[West Coast]

Wingview just accounted for the majority of percieved hard landings- they're intended. Short, wet, crosswinds, traffic in trail, etc.
You pay to get there safe. Sometimes that requires us to plant it. Sometimes thumpers just happen also.

Any landing where you can use the plane again is a good landing.

[Gravox]

I once had a passenger ask if I had my eyes closed when I thumped the metro on the ground one dark night, I replied, "Nope that's too scary" a couple of the pax laughed.

But when flying a Metro every landing is generally a thumber. Good ol metros.... :\

[Herod]

Best excuse ? "Ladies and gentlemen, my First Officer would like to apologise for the firmness of HIS landing."

[G-ALAN]

Never seen a bad landing on an airliner, I fly very often as a pax BTW. I've seen very firm landings but never one where any of the other pax have complained. This only re-inforces my faith in airline pilots :ok: As for my own landings, I grease it on every time ;) (not)

[Noah Zark.]

One I have heard at my aviating venue, after a "firm" landing -
"Which b****** turned the gravity up?"

[GAMAN]

Isn't it funny that it all comes down to the landing. You could stuff the SID up, bust altitude, cook an engine, not follow a clearance, overspeed the gear and flaps but make a nice landing and the pax think you're god. Do everything perfectly but bounce on landing and you're no better than their 13 year old on flight sim and you should go back to flipping burgers at mc donalds.

[wingview]

GAMAN:

Hahahahahahaha so much fun with that and it's all so true!!!:D :D :D

[gps117]

the best one i heard was on a ba shuttle (757) lhr - man

After a somewhat firm landing the captain came on an said

" this 757 is fully capable of an automatic landing, however i regret to say that on this occasion it was my landing! You may want to open the overhead lockers carefully in case all your bags have ruptured. Good afternoon and thankyou for flying with British Airways!"

Excellent ;-)

[PA-28-180]

Similar one to Herods post. Continental DC-10 into SFO (CAVU cond's BTW) banged it in so much so that ALL the overhead bins opened up. Reason given-It was an EX-NAVY flyer! Guess it gives credance to the old joke "Flare to land, Squat to Pee!" :D

[Dantruck]

An old, bold pilot friend taught me this definition of a good landing. Applies equally to fixed and rotary wing:

If the crew has a pulse and the aircraft is repairable...that's a good landing!

Kinda became a school chant recited after every landing thereafter.:ok:

[You splitter]

I know it doesn't count as a landing but positioned from ZRH into LHR once with an engineer. We heard the power go on and we started to climb. A few of the pax gave each other worried looks and we explained to the guy sitting with us that we were 'going around' and that this was common and nothing to worry about.

After a few minutes we get a PA from the flight deck apologising and saying that sevre crosswinds on landing had meant we needed to go around and set up for landing again.

When we did finally land the engineer grinning pointed out the window to a wind sock hanging from it's pole.

Not a breeze anywhere. One of the calmest days we had seen. Now it is possible that the winds at 200 feet were blustery or that the wind suddenly died off but we reckon it was a fine exscuse for a cocked up approach! :ok:

The landing when it came BTW was excellent. At the end of the day as pax we all appreciate getting our feet back on the ground safely. And of course people judge. Why not we all do. I've seen pax applaud a greaser and why not? At the same time you have to take the stick for the less than perfect touchdowns. And like someone said sometimes the firm touchdowns are intentional.

For example a CAT III auto land normally plants you on the tarmac fairly and squarely. Its designed to be a 'positive' touchdown not some airy fairy burn up the runway trying to be like a cat pi$$ing on velvet!

Every one you walk away from is a good 'un!

[Ennie]

We all have those days! Last week for example, CAVOK VRB 3 KTS, and the hardest landing I ever did, the cabin crew had a right laugh at me!!

On the other hand, two weeks ago in AMS 19 KTS straight accross and a greeser if I do say so myself!!

Swings and roundabouts, no need to bitch and complain, you're here to post your comments arn't you?:E

[strafer]

Ennie - I was neither bitching nor complaining, nor indeed questioning the pilot's flying ability, merely the quality of his excuse. I wasn't going to mention it (but I will now). - One thing I have noticed after regularly commuting around Europe over the last ten years, is that no matter what the plane, carrier or airport, the worst flying I have experienced seems to have come from our Cloggie cousins. Whether it's the quality of training in Nederland or a question of national character I'm not sure.

Wat denk jij, Meneer Ennie?

[expedite_climb]

Sorry, I was just going to keep my mouth shut.One thing I have noticed after regularly commuting around Europe over the last ten years, is that no matter what the plane, carrier or airport, the worst flying I have experienced seems to have come from our Cloggie cousins.

Apart from being a seasoned pax, could you quote your qualifications and hence right to judge quality of flying ???? :*

Don't really see what was wrong with ennies comments that upset you.

[strafer]

expedite_climb - I humbly apologise.

As a lowly pax, I was not able in my stupidity to recognise that you and Ennie, while not only infallible, are among that select group of pilots who are so confident in their own ability, that they would never feel the need to search out implied criticism that wasn't even there in the first place.

[expedite_climb]

1. Where did I say I was infallible ? Far from it my friend. As for ennie he actually said 'We all have those days'. How true.

2. that they would never feel the need to search out implied criticism that wasn't even there in the first place.

Can you explain how the worst flying I have experienced seems to have come from our Cloggie cousins. is not a criticism ?

3. Can you answer my previous question. What qualifies you to criticise? I do not think I am in a position to criticise when I'm sat down the back and its my job?

[strafer]

OK, let's clear this up so we can all go home for tea...

My original post was not a criticism of the landing or the pilot, it was that his excuse was a little lame. (As I remember, you threw your toys out of the pram at that and then apologised).

My sarky reply to you and Ennie was because both of your posts were patronising. I wasn't upset, I'm a big boy now.

The only time I have experienced excessively hard landings, missed approaches and insanely fast taxing followed by screeching brakes as the holding point is nearly missed, has been with a certain Royal Dutch airline. Coincidence? Maybe - it's not enough to stop me flying with them anyway.

And finally, having a PPL makes me respect airline pilots more, not less, than the average joe. So stop being so bloody touchy!

[Flat Cap]

To wind this thread back to the beginning, its sounds like your captain was attempting to use one of my favourite excuses for that, more positive style of arrival. The full excuse generally runs something like this:

"Ladies and Gentlemen this is the Captain, I am sure that one or two of you are perhaps wondering about the firmness of that last landing. Well the tower controllers ask us if we could help them by performing the runways weekly hardness test, I was happy to oblige and I am sure you'll all be very pleased to know that the runway has passed its test with flying colours and it is, in fact, very very hard indeed."

Cheers

The Flat Cap

[kabz]

No problem with this one ... KLM MD-11 into Caracas (La Machita?) in July 97. Hit hard and bounced several times.

[chuks]

I was busy filling out the paperwork one afternoon after the last flight when I became aware of this young man looking at me rather sternly through the 'whiskey hatch.' I broke off what I was doing to ask him if there was something I could help him with.

He told me that I had just made a 'very bad landing.'

I had no idea what, if anything, was particularly objectionable about this particular landing so I just told him that he must not have been along for some of my landings at the old Warri Airstrip in the Twin Otter. Some of my landings there, I told him, broke lightbulbs in the airstrip cafe.

He thought that one over for a moment and then replied that this had been a very bad landing. I then thanked him and went back to filling out my paperwork.

[Ray Ban]

Strafer,

Your post seems to imply that Ennie's Dutch, but how can you tell just because he appears to post from Leiden? I'm not sure whether you know but pilots formerly flying for KLMuk (became KLCuk) are now in many cases based in the Netherlands. Thats doesn't necessarily make them Dutch!

Anyway, I think the captain on your flight was probably joking at his own expense!:p

[FlyMD]

This little story to say you should be careful when trying to be witty on the PA:

7 years ago, I was co-piloting to Mykonos with a Lufthansa captain, when he produced a real "slammer". Taxiing back, his comment went something like:

"My sincere apologies, Ladies and Gentlemen, it seems like 60 tons of aluminum just slipped through my hands there.."

We all thought it was pretty harmless fun, but one anally challenged passenger wrote an incensed letter to management, and the whole ridiculous story ended up with an official reprimand to the captain and a memo to the rest of us about questionable humour on the PA!

Sometimes, it's just best to make the joke first, THEN to press the PA button, and be boring like a good little pilot...

[fireflybob]

The heaviest landing I have ever experienced as pax on a transport aircraft was landing at New York in a B727 (US airline but cannot remember which) in the mid 70s.

As I looked out the window I remember thinking that the sink rate was a bit high and shortly afterwards we landed very firmly.

As we cleared the runway the captain came on and said "Well, folks, I guess the only thing we can say about the landing is that we have ARRIVED in New York".

Reference firm touchdowns when landing in ideal conditions the theory is that when we are not working so hard at it we are using the left brain (logical analytical etc) side of the brain to a much greater extent compared to the right brain (creative artistic etc).

If it's a more difficult approach (weather, night, short runway etc.) we are working harder and have less time to analyse and therefore use the right brain to a greater extent.

Surprisingly then we might be more likely to ham it up when conditons are good. Well that's my excuse anyway!

[Ali Ronn]

Gosh, is that the ground already?

[tenke]

light & vicious

[ft]

"Well, t'was a perfect landing... slightly high, but at two feet it was perfect indeed".

Said by a pilot who will remain anonymous (no way I'm confessing to that one!) after stalling it in during basic training. Ouch!

Cheers,
Fred

[Aviation Trainer too]

As a Dutchman and a boeing jock I would like to compliment the audience to underwrite the high quality of our cloggie pilots (if I may generalise ..) If one looks in the Boeing books one will find that Boeing prefers you to make a heavy landing (ok not too heavy) over trying to make a greaser that ends up at the end of the runway. Don't have my books here but will look up the exact wording! Following this line of reasoning all other pilots are cr*p ;)

[Smokie]

We had a saying at the gliding club many moons a ago:-

"ONLY PUFFS ROUND OUT ! " :p

[ft]

Smokie,
that was before the days of glass birds, I presume (or should that be 'hope'?)? :D

Cheers,
Fred

[Ennie]

Í like it Strafer, but the fact is mate, I am as English as they come, East London to be exact.

I may work for a great company, and you may have issues with some of my fellow aviators, but you have a PPL and know Jack **** by the sound of things. If you wanna drop me a line I will put you in your place, oh and if I ever clap eyes on you I'm gonna chin you very hard.

******:mad:

[Evening Star]

KLMuk Fokker 100 at AMS - given that particular aircraft's penchant for collapsing gear, I was a little worried!

Excellent Maxrev. I am pax in one of those on Thursday. Just fill me with confidence why don't you :p :p !

[BTW, before anybody tries to flame me, that was said tongue in cheek.]

[strafer]

oh and if I ever clap eyes on you I'm gonna chin you very hard.
As we used to say in the playground, "Chinny, reckon".

Scared as I am by threats on a anonymous bulletin board, I'll bow to your superior knowledge - you have after all spent a couple of months in the RHS of an F50. Mind you, it's funny how the pilots with much more experience than you took the thread in the spirit in which it was intended.

At least those shiny new epaulettes on your shoulder give you something to balance your chip on.

Muppet.

[Jetdriver]

dear oh dear ..... !:rolleyes: