Grob 115 - where can I fly one?

[Fat Frank]

Hi,

I'd like to try something a bit different from Cessnas and Pipers and the Grob looks pretty slick. Does anyone know of any flying clubs that have them available for rent in the UK?

Many thanks in advance

Frank

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Don't let the looks decieve you. I thought it looked pretty good, too. You know the old adage - if it looks right it probably flies right? Doesn't apply to the G115.

Barton has 2. I checked out in one years ago. It was awful - underpowered with soggy imprecise controls. So I tried the other. It was just as bad.

SSD

[jonnys]

SSD, I have to disagree. I've had a bit of experience (20 hours or so) in the Grob 115E, and I must say it felt pretty good! It's got great aerobatic handling, and has a pretty good performance spec. I do appreciate that there may be many 'better' a/c out there, but Fat Frank, if you can get an hour or two in a Grob (especially if you're interested in aeros/unusual attitude stuff) then go for it!

[Fat Frank]

SSD, Jonnys,

Thanks for your comments, I don't have any direct experience of the Grob so can't give my two p's worth, but I'd like to try one out even if it's just an hour or two. Does anywhere else fly them except Barton? Could make it there though it would be a bit of a trek.

Cheers

Frank

[Dusty_B]

Jonnys, SSD:

Your differing experiences are almost certainly down to the metal at the front of the machine. The UAS heaps are considerably better off than most of the civvie examples.

To take a comparison, the FireFly at my local club has a Lycoming 118hp with a two blade prop. The chaps at Barkson are packing between 160 and 250hp... they definately handle differently!

[poetpilot]

...plus with the Barton Grobbies, if you're more petite and flying solo, they're not too bad.

If you are .... ahem ..... a little above average weight, and then you go and take someone else up (e.g instructor checking you out) and then you factor in Barton's soggy and rather length-challenged runway, things get more marginal.

[Fat Frank]

SSD, poetpilot,

You've both mentioned Barton. What is your experience of it - are the instructors at Lancashire Aero Club experienced and good? Would definitely like to try the Grob (presume there's no way I can try out a UAS version very easily is there?) but would like to know Barton's worth the journey first. Point taken about the powerplants.

Thanks again

Frank

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I don't have experience of Barton instructors these days except Martin Rushbrooke (who is a very good aeros instructor but gets booked up months ahead) and Bob Knight, with whom I did my bi-annual 'instructor' hour in the Chippy recently - also recommended.

I can well accept that the Barton Grobs are underpowered compared to other examples. But soggy handling is soggy handling. Felt just like a PA28 to me. Very dissapointing.

SSD

[poetpilot]

I've been accused elsewhere of being unduly biased towards Barton, but I s'pose that's natural when one has flown from it since 1974 :rolleyes: (God, that long....) ... so please factor in a bias when reading.....

The present crop of instructors seem a decent bunch to me. As with all bunches/herds/flight (what IS the collective description for several instructors? :confused: ) you'll get a mix of characters and reasons for being an instructor. But in my short interactions with them when booking in/out, they all seem nice, enthusiastic people, with good customer-relations attitudes.

Really though you must explore the weight aspects in terms of flying the Grob, and mention it if you call them. Several of the instructors don't fly the Grob because their weight combined with the student's weight is too much.

SSD, I'd agree on the handling, though I did note that when I increased speed (by diving!!) the controls started to feel a lot nicer (rather than just heavier). But a fellow PPL of some experience that I took up in one was also unimpressed by it.

If you want to email me offline ([email protected]), I'm happy to chat about it more. Shame I'm not current on the Grob else I'd offer you a trip. It's expensive enough keeping current on 3 types. But if you are coming up, let me know, maybe we can meet up.

[Skaz]

that would be a gaggle of instructors....methinks:}

[poetpilot]

An epaullette of instructors?

A nag of instructors?

A patience of instructors?

A patter of instructors ?

[Circuit Basher]

I like 'patter' :D

Thread drift........ sorry, BRL!

The collective noun for students would have to be something like:

A whinging of students.....
A cockup of students.....
A circuit of students.....
A circling of students.....
A navigational uncertainty of students.....
A thump'n'go of students.....

:ok:

[oli carley]

join the aircadets as staff or a ci and you can go up in the grob115E at various aef's for free.!

I've logged a few hours know flying out of Church Fenton :O

[squawking 7700]

Fat Frank,
Forget the Grob, if you live 'darn sarf' why not try a Katana? nimble, great vis, not bad performance, generally nice to fly and you can do wingovers etc.

There's a few for hire down your way, Redhill?


Squawking 7700

[AerBabe]

[thread hijack]
A flock of instructors?
A swarm of instructors?
A pack of students?
The obvious would be a school of students...
[/thread hijack]

[Genghis the Engineer]

Closeish relatives, there's a military spec Firefly at Thruxton and a couple of Bulldogs at Old Sarum - both should be fairly close to you. Also, both airfields have ex-military test pilots on the instructional staff, so if you really want to learn about the aeroplane they are (IMHO) the sort of chaps to go to.

G

[Fat Frank]

Excuse the bad manners in not posting for a week, I was away on holiday but was amazed at the amount of postings I found when I logged in.

Thanks everyone for the very helpful advice, and cheers Poetpilot for your offer. Have now booked a few hours at Barton, so am well looking forward to that. Did enquire into the possibilities of doing some aeros in the Grob but was told at my weight (80kg) I could forget it!! Does anyone know of a good school/instructor for aeros in the Barton/Manchester area?

Cheers

Fat Frank

[Genghis the Engineer]

JAR-23 aerobatic category aeroplanes are stressed to 86kg per seat for the full flight envelope.

G

[DB6]

Bloody hope so! I'm about 102kg with chute and helmet :eek:

[swh]

Shaggy Sheep Driver

We have over 40 G115s, the C2 model with 180 HP, constant speed props.

I have about 1000 hours in them. Great aircraft, only problem we seem to have is in the go-around, they are so overpowered they will roll left if you do not add right rudder in when you go around with the application of full power.

I have not found another two seat trainer that I can sit at 50 kts 15-20 deg NU and still climb at 500 fpm. Very precise handling is required to fly the aircraft accurately.

Hopefully some time in the future we will be replacing the 180 HP lycomings with a diesel engine, they will drop the fuel burn down from 38 lph to 16 lph which will give us extra legs, we only have fours hours endurance at 38 lph.

Extremely crashworthy aircraft have a look at these accident reports, any other aircraft, the students would be deceased http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occurs/occurs_detail.cfm?ID=410 http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occurs/occurs_detail.cfm?ID=420

[poetpilot]

Frank, there's a CAP10 over at Sherburn (nr. Leeds). Plus an expensive but fun Stearman at Liverpool.

Plus poss. Chipmunks at Liverpool/Blackpool (but i may be out of date on that info).

Used to be a Citabria (well Decathlon ISTR) at Tatenhill, Staffs.

[FNG]

Fat Frank, as you are in London, there's a Cap 10 at Waltham and a Chipmunk at Wycombe, both available for aeros instruction. More expensive than the equivalents at Barton/Sherburn, but you don't have to pay for the transport to the land of whippets and suet pie eating.

[Perfect PFL]

I did my PPL at RAF Cranwell flying club back in 2000. That was in a G115 (the civil version). They still have two G115's at the club there, and pretty cheap rates as well. I still fly there occasionally.

I think they are reasonable aircraft to fly, bit slow in roll, but that's about the only problem with them. Yes they are a bit under powered, but they'll still cruise at nearly 100kts.

I did 120 hours in bulldogs with a UAS before doing my PPL, and have had a couple of trips in the G115E (Tutor) since that - very nice aircraft (still the problem with slow in roll though).

[Fat Frank]

PoetPilot/ FNG,

Thanks for the advice about aeros. Quite like the CAP10, so I'll try for Shearburn seeing as I'll be in that neck of the woods anyway, but if not I'll pay the extra and go for somewhere local to home.

Perfect PFL,

Cheers for the advice about the Grobs, shame I won't get to try out their aero capabilities. Did you go for a military flying career after your UAS?

Fat Frank

[Perfect PFL]

Fat Frank,

Unfortunately you can't do aeros in the civil G115 anyway :*

No, I didn't join the RAF after finishing in the UAS, decided to go the civil route instead and join the airlines - still trying.....

I currently work for a company called QinetiQ in Farnborough.

[Circuit Basher]

Perfect PFLs - check your PMs!

[Evo]

I currently work for a company called QinetiQ in Farnborough.


Ah, 'twas the DRA/DERA in my day. Who on earth renamed it QinetiQ...?:yuk: :ugh: :confused:

[Circuit Basher]

I too work for the great and good (??) Q.

The one advantage is that it's very eay to find in an alphabetical list!

The recent big push on 'brand awareness' was fatally flawed on 2 counts:
[list=1]
It failed to tell anyone how to pronounce the name
It came 18 months after the company was formed, so kind of lost impact
[/list=1]
The only problem is finding it in a telephone directory. After 18 months of existence of Q, I was amazed to find that our site (a small one, employing 5 staff) was the only site listed under 'QinetiQ' in Scotland, which meant that anyone aking for the Q word in Scotland got directed to us (rather than the correct one of 14 sites!). I then had to take on the task of getting the directory entries amended for all the other sites who were still listed as 'DERA', 'DRA', 'MoD', 'Royal Navy' and various other identities. We still get directory enquiries for other sites of QinetiQ, but I now just direct them to the central Farnborough enquiry number.

[Sorry, BRL, for the thread hijack re:Q - PM me your address and I'll send you a free box of 'Q' mint breath fresheners!!!]

;) ;)

[Random UAS Stude]

Has anybody actually manage to land a 115/Tutor EXACTLY where they wanted to yet - just 'cos Mr Grob makes gliders, the little aeroplane seems to think its allowed to float forever...:O

[FNG]

My instructor Confucius, he say...many pirots say erloplane float down lunway...Confucius say try randing at proper speed, ah so

[Random UAS Stude]

Land 10(bl***y)kts slow - aeroplane still floats 10 miles down bl***y long runway...