So near and yet so far!

[Saab Dastard]

Did the GFT today - 34 out of 35 ticks in boxes. Partial pass - I just have to do the PFL again :( :( Hopefull I will nail it next weekend.

Still, it's a lot better than doing the whole thing again!

Sennadog I heard you working Farnborough at one point - I think you were heading back to Redhill - hope you had a good flight to Sywell and back. I was somewhere around Kenley at the time, routing back to Fairoaks after doing a diversion to London City, bathed in sweat! ;)

SD

[AerBabe]

Hey, that's still pretty good SD! PFLs are just "one of those things" :) Weather wasn't the greatest today either. Good luck for next weekend.

[BRL]

Good luck for next weekend, everything crossed here for you. :)

[Evo]

Best of luck for next weekend Saab - and that was me trying to explain that our transponder didn't work... :)

[TheKentishFledgling]

Good luck next weekend!

Let us know how you get on :)

And well done for for the 34 ticks you did get!

tKF

[Aussie Andy]

Well done mate - and don't worry about it. I also got a partial pass when I did mine last year: my problem was with the circuits, believe it or not! There was a solid XWind and gusty windshear on final approach on the day, and I didn't perform well! But the following weekend it was sorted out :)

Re- PFLs, one examiner I know tells me he's never seen anyone do the well! You'll be right mate,

[sennadog]

Strewth. Your Examiner must be a hard nut to crack, failing you on PFLs!

Anyway, almost well done. If you just get some practice in this week with your instructor you'll walk it.:D

[Saab Dastard]

Thanks for your positive responses, folks!

Cheered me up a lot - I don't want to burn the 1/2 mil and flush the headset down the loo any more! ;)

The trick for the PFL - apparently - is s*d the checks, make sure you get it in the field, so I'll spend an hour or so just getting the positioning and judgement right without thinking about restart or crash checks - sure, I can learn those sitting on the loo! :D

SD

[seat_of_my_pants]

Go kick a$$ and take names - and let us know how you get on

Sennadog - just started at Redhill - they're nice bunch!

SOMP

[sennadog]

seat_of_my_pants. Err, just started with whom?

Either way, have fun.:)

[FlyingForFun]

Well done, SD. You're nearly there!

The most important thing my instructor tried to teach me for PFL is to be high. You can always lose height - add flaps, side-slip, S-turns, orbit, the list is endless. But if you're too low, you're screwed. Remember this, and you'll be fine next weekend!

Good luck!

FFF
-------------

[LowNSlow]

I'll second what FFF says and good luck next weekend

[Final 3 Greens]

SAAB

A few us PPLs might reflect that we passed our PFLs as much by good fortune as by being highly skilled at this stage!

Its also a good thing to keep practising post PPL, as one tends to become much more proficient as experience/skills increase.

Regards

F3G

[Evo]

If you're too low on a PFL you can always announce that you're going to 'warm' the engine - 10 seconds or so on full power should do it... ;) :)

[Select Zone Five]

During my skill test PFL I started the Mayday call and my mind went blank on the location so I looked around, saw the North Sea and put "just off the coast" in...I passed :D :cool:

[AerBabe]

I'll third FFF on the height thing.
The second most important thing about PFLs is to put down in a field next to a pub, so you can have a pint while you wait to be collected ;)

[What a Loop]

SD

One of the tips I was given was to pick three fields one for undershoot and your main choice then an overshoot field.

This way your examiner at least thinks you are forward planning. Seemed to work for me, but I was lucky and got one of those rare days with no wind.
:D :D

I agree with the engine warming, and the side slipping as additional aids. It all shows you are going to be safe which is the main aspect of it.

Never having done it for real I don't really know if it works, but keep practicing it and it will be fine.

Well done on the 34, the extra one should now be a breeze.;)

[Evo]

Oh, and the examiner isn't going to fail your engine unless he can see a good place to land, so if you cannot see anything you like on the left try a quick 30 degree bank to the right so you can see the field he spotted. It happens - I know one bloke at Goodwood who failed on PFLs and he messed up a left hand circuit into a tiny field when there was a disused airfield (Thorney Island) just down to the right :)

[FlyingForFun]

The examiner isn't going to fail your engine unless he can see a good place to land
True. But if he can't see a good place to land, he may fail you for not ensuring that you've got somewhere to land at all times...

FFF
-------------

[Evo]

You've got the b*****d examiner from hell if he does that! Thought that they were only supposed to try and make you suffer in the IR checkride... :)

[What a Loop]

Good point about looking out both sides. Whilst doing my training, my instructor dropped a PFL out of the blue on me, and whilst picking out a lovely set of fields to the left, he did comment as to why I wasn't interested in the huge expanse of Greenham common.......Opps:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


WAT

[Saab Dastard]

Thanks for the tips guys, I've no excuse for failure now!

:)

SD

[hasell]

Hey Saab,
Never mind ... but you ain't alone mate. I also got a 'partial' pass. I have to do the navex again, Simulated IMC, bit too...

The tip about the PFL I'd like to give you is

1. Find a field!
2. Find a field!
3. Find a field! :)

No seriously, I found a great way (well great for me...) to remember the PFL checks. It was the following... FAC (pronounced in Father Ted style)
FAC -as in ...
F -Field (Find one!)
A -Airspeed (Trim for 70/75 Knts -Warrior a/c)
C -Checks.

The examiner was quick to point out that I did the right thing in terms of priorties. Its no good doing swanky checks if you aint gonna make a field and live to tell the tale.

Good luck anywayz!
H.

[PFLsAgain]

My PFL on the GFT went like this:

Sudden silence.... Pick a field, trim for speed, do the checks, passenger brief...

Oh sh!t just noticed the pylons and cables across my field. So I turn confidently (not!) to the examiner, tell him my choice of field was screwed up, and rapidly choose another...

1000' agl, oh sh!t, too low, not going to make it to my second choice field. Turn to the examiner and confidently (!) tell him that I screwed up again and point out my third choice...

800', 700', 600', he turns to me and says "will we make it?". Smiling rather manically, I say "of course we will!" "Hmmm" says he...

500' (rule 5, rule5! I'm thinking, and reach for the throttle) and he says "go around".

Ah well, I think, weather looks good for the next few days, so I'll get the resit in quickly.

Do the rest of the test (GFT and nav. in 2 and a half long, long hours) - not much left by this point. Land, taxi to the fuel. He gets out, has a chat to my instructor, and then says, "by the way, you passed". Come again? "Well you didn't give up, and you would have got the aircraft down in one piece. Eventually."

So I guess the moral is never say die!

[ChiSau]

Did anyone have to do a practise precautionary search and landing in their gft?

I've got my gft next week and was looking at the Trevor Thom book last night. I've never been taught this exercise. Is it usual to be?

:)

[Saab Dastard]

ChiSau,

I did a go around from very low level - 100 feet-ish - as part of the GFT - does that count ;) .

I was also required to do a circuit at 600 feet and landing (I think that was the short field approach, hard to remember even though it was only a few days ago!), presumably to simulate poor-weather circuits.

Part of my training included doing the precautionary landing - circuits (1000, 500, 100 ish feet) in low speed configuration - cos it was a miserable day anyway!

Good luck with the GFT

SD

ps - hasell, thanks for the tips

[slim_slag]

It's interesting that several in the UK are told to find an field before you pitch for best glide airspeed. We teach in the US the ABC - Airspeed, Best Field, Check List. Pitching for best glide usually means trading airspeed for altitude in a zoom. Altitude being very very nice, and also translating to more time in the air. Then you can look for the field, which of course you should already have in your mind, but things sometimes don't work that way in practice. That extra altitude and time might well mean a successful restart, or being able to reach a better landing place you otherwise might have not been able to reach if you continued at cruise speed pitch while looking for a field.

"Airspeed, Best Field, Checklist" also sort of fits better with "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" which has always been considered the right way to do things when things get hairy.

Just an observation, and interesting that something as vitally automatic as an engine failure drill should be taught differently.

[Evo]

I guess it varies, slim_slag - I was taught ABC here in the UK. However, and it's a minor point, I was taught to always put the carb heat to hot first and then trim for best glide. The logic being that if the engine had stopped due to carb ice you should get that heat going asap :)

[Select Zone Five]

I was taught...

1) Carb Ht on
2) Trim for glide
3) Look for field

[Gunner B12]

On my test I got a PFL right overhead an active airfield! Couldn't get away with any of the tricks as I actually had to get it in there! although he did tell me to go around at about 50ft to save on the landing fee. But the additional radio work was fun. fortunately the my tester took over some of that taking pity on me but only after it was obvious I knew what I was doing. one thing I opted for was to do the shut downs early rather than forget them. I figured if it hasn't started by now and I'm headed for a real runway then I don't need the engine to worry about (didn't actually shut it down).

[FlyingForFun]

I was taught to trim for best glide before looking for a field. But in practice I find I can do both at the same time - I can't see that it makes much difference which one you're taught to do first.

Interesting point, though. Slim_slag said:

Pitching for best glide usually means trading airspeed for altitude in a zoom
I was never taught to do this for a PFL - I was taught to hold the aircraft level while the speed bleeds back to best glide. Anyone got any opinions either way?

*Thinking hat on* I'd guess that the answer is to do whatever's going to give you the best overall glide distance. And this basically means the least drag. High speed causes form drag. High alpha causes induced drag. A zoom climb involves higher-than-normal alpha during the zoom, but will get you to the lower speed quicker. The power-off deceleration will leave you at a higher speed for longer, but doesn't involve the high levels of induced drag during deceleration which the zoom-climb gives. So I'd guess that the disadvantages of each method cancel each other out, and there's not much difference in the end result. But this is all pure speculation - any input from anyone who knows better would be appreciated! *Thinking hat off again*

FFF
--------------

[slim_slag]

FFF

But in practice I find I can do both at the same time - I can't see that it makes much difference which one you're taught to do first.

But you have a bit more experience now. We are talking about drumming into a student's head a procedure to follow when his engine quits. This should be automatic to a pre-SOLO (so no 4.5 hour solo wonders) student. I tend to do much the same multitasking as you when somebody cuts the power on me, but it's a bad practice. Pilots shouldn't be making up their emergency procedures, far wiser people than us have decided to teach 'A, B, C' instead of 'AB, C' to students.

I was never taught to do this for a PFL - I was taught to hold the aircraft level while the speed bleeds back to best glide. Anyone got any opinions either way?

Oh My Word. So a student pilot is being taught to look at his altimeter when his engine takes a dump? What's that all about? What if the best field is behind you and your delightful straight and level cruise takes you out of range of it?

*Thinking hat on* .........

Excuse me if I leave mine off :). I defer to those with the ability to calculate this using aerodynamic knowledge I do not possess.

But.. I think we would all agree we want to get to Vbg. I would suggest you want to get to Vbg as soon as possible. Pulling back (assuming you are cruising at > Vbg) sharply to what looks like Vbg pitch and making a crude adjustment when the ASI settles down will get me to Vbg before your gentle 'instrument panel' :) bleeding off does. Also, when I get to Vbg, I will have lots more lovely altitude than you.

And, not only do I have more altitude, because I go there quicker, I have more time to look for a field, and attempt a restart.

Altitude is also nice because it's colder up there, which can be useful when coolant has been dumped, as happened to somebody I know over the western US deserts, and where a 500ft descent caused a significant increase in engine temperature.

regards