Swanwick OJTIs resign??

[BEXIL160]

Just rumour that comes to me from a colleague at LACC on a different watch......

It appears that several ATCO2s on the top of the scale have "resigned their commissions" and handed in their training attestations (not that they had any for NERC, but thats another story)

Reasons? Apparently mostly morale related, although I dare say that the lack of much financial reward also played it's part.

I am also told that at least two of the Watch Training Managers may well also quit.

Discuss.....

Rgds BEX

(copied):(

[chiglet]

Has a[n] {not so humble} ATSAII who has traind umpteen ATSAs [most of whom are now ATSAIIIs] Why am I "training for free" :rolleyes: when ATCOs are getting paid:confused: ?
I know that it HAS to be done, but it don't make it any sweeter:p
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[Captain Mayday]

NATS professes to want to be the best in the business.

Airlines pay ca £10000pa to training captains

NATS pays £1200pa (before tax) to ATCO OJTIs
(prior to 2001, if you were top of the scale you got diddly squat)

It is up to ATSAa and ATCOs not to sell themselves short. Remember every time you plug in with a trainee you are potentially putting your licence at risk. That risk should carry a price. That price should be paid by NATS.

Makes it all the more galling when non-operational instruction (no risk) gets ATCO2 scales, and OJTIs at airports (big risk) are restricted to ATCO3 scales.

Discuss

[atco-matic]

well I for one will not be taking up training again... I have never particularly enjoyed doing it, and this spell without UT's has made me realise how much I hated it!

Maybe if more people felt like this then we might get more money for the extra work involved.

[sony backhander]

i'm afraid some are/were already training not long after o-date.
i think a training embargo might do some good

[terrain safe]

While I understand your feelings regarding training, please have some consideration for the trainees already in the system. They have been sitting around since January, getting very bored, through no fault of their own. Remember the very human aspect to your action. You may be affecting the people who could either help you get your leave, early retirement or even get a more reasonable break or even open sector 33! (I know the last is very implausable).

It isn't a matter of black and white.

[BEXIL160]

The fault would appear to lie with NATS (mis-)management, not the (ex-) OJTIs. Do you see them (the management) taking any responsibilty?

Morale appears to be extremely low at NERC (and elsewhere). NATS is apparently a commercial organisation, a pity then that it fails to place much value on it's greatest asset, it's OPERATIONAL STAFF.

NFI seems to be the order of the day. How did we get to this state in such a short time?

Rgds BEX

[Nogbad the Bad]

Seems like Management hasn't changed one iota, Bex...........

.....and therein lies the problem.

:( :( :( :( :( :(

[BEXIL160]

Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind..........

All a bit negative, so what should be done?

Start paying the OJTIs properly. A LARGE percentage of their wage perhaps?

Listen and ACT on the operational staffs' ideas and requests?

Admit that not everything in the garden is rosy, and that it is largely due to (lack of) management / leadership?

When NERC opened to great fanfare we were PROMISED a new start..... where is it?

Further suggestions welcome. You never know WHO might just read this stuff...


;)

Rgds BEX

[chiglet]

Hey Bex, the price of bacon "may rise"....:rolleyes:
But pigs are "grounded":p
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[Scott Voigt]

Bex;

I've been away at a safety conference, but I've been trying to catch up with all the stuff going on here...

I think that we've talked about it before, but over here we get a differential of 10% of our base pay for the hours spent training. Not worth it <G>...

regards

[Crapaud]

Hi to all you NATs people,
I'm glad some of you get a financial incentive to carry on on as OJTIs. At our station there is no financial (or otherwise) reward for training and, as said before, it does blunt your performance. Wish I could jack it in!!! :eek: :eek:

Crapaud

[5milesbaby]

Terrain Safe - you should also have consideration for those who have been sat around since January 2001 at Nerc doing the feed positions for no extra, or actually, LESS reward. People are always going to be affected by such problems, but would you decide against action because of it if you eventually become an OJTi??

Roger Out - those at the top of the scale are handing in their training bags as they get NO extra pay for it. OJTI's are awarded the next rung on the pay scale ladder, so once your at the top, there's no more to be had. Don't know if its permitted to just 'jack it in' whenever you like as we are all contracted to be trainers, like it or not.

[Captain Mayday]

Give a thought to all those ATCOs who put their licence on the line every day training people. No thanks, and precious little compensation. Training captains with the airlines get up to £10k for doing the job ! ATCOs get £1200 a year (if they're lucky).

Tell them to **** off. We're worth more than that. But no-ones got the balls to say "No".

ATCOs at CATC get more then operational ATCOs and don't risk their livelihoods. So why should we ?

Stand up and have the balls to fight - or be ****ed forever

[Vercingetorix]

Terrain safe. The purpose of training is not self interest as in : Leave, pension. etc. It's primary human dimension is to produce quality ATCOs. No pain No gain.

[terrain safe]

I don't think it matters whether OJTI's train or not at the moment at LACC as there are no Mentor boxes to be had. Apparently they keep breaking. As training has only just started they can't have worn out, so they must be c***.

Still I suppose the chairs work!:D :D :D :D

[Scott Voigt]

Ok, what is a mentor box???????

[willadvise]

Scott. I don't work in the UK but I assume they are what we down under would call a training box. Ie the box you plug in when OJT that allows you to override the trainee. When we went to our new system the new training boxes were found to occasionally crash the Voice Switching/Frequencies system hence they went out of favour very quickly. I haven't seen anyone use one for ages.

[All Systems Go]

We have a few Mentor boxes people, but as you rightly say they are a little on the Lada side of the Engineering scale. They're bloody great big things too!! If you want one I believe you have to pop into your local friendly systems control and ask for one, and we'll endeavour to get you one, but I'm not sure about the actual procedure. I've had my grubby little hands on about 5 in the past month to fix or bin. They look good though.

[Not Long Now]

Rogerout, yes you can give up training, and get the 'rating' withdrawn from your license. All you need do is be insistent you do not want to do it, top of the scale or not.

[crowman]

It is good to see that management are practising their communication skills with their staff. The OJTI's at LACC were due their payment last month but on payday no payment!!Apparantely this was due to the reason that only one watch had submitted their returns on time. However a letter from HR [personnel] assured us that the payment would exceptionally be made at the end of the first week of May. 10th May no payment. The reason was that one watch still had allegedly failed to submit a return. BUT management must have been aware of this for at least a weekand still failed to inform us, the OJTI's. IT seems perverse that at a time when it seems I am being asked every day when am I going to resume training that we as a group, are treated with such disregard. Maybe I will not be happy to resume training as quickly as otherwise I would!!! Maybe my communication needs improving? :mad:

[250 kts]

Can't really see the point of being an OJTI any longer as no one seems to listen to our opinions anyway.

I refer to the fact that 5 ex LATCC failed trainees are to be given another go at LACC. Their training records have been circulated around other area units with training slots available and I understand that they were not deemed suitable for any of those units. So who gets them back-yes, the very unit that failed them in the first place. :mad: :mad:

Some of these trainees had upto 300 hours and were "terminated", but at least one of them never even made it off the AVC.

If management are not prepared to listen to the OJTIs then what's the point of having us in the first place?-let's just train them for 300 hours and give 'em the validation no matter how good they are.

[professor yaffle]

With reference to whether an OJTI can hand in their training ticket: as far as I can remember you can do this provided you are at the top of the scale so you can choose whether or not to train anyone without losing pay (obviously don't get the bonus though)However at smaller units where there are probably only enough OJTI's to meet the WPP then this is not really an option as it would probably mean a trainee would'nt get training every day or putting other OJTI's under pressure to train more than the 50% of time all the time (instead of most of the time!)

[crowman]

In reply to 250 kts the reason that the trainees are to be given another chance is due to the fact that the AVC's were substandard during OCT. AS MANAGEMENT WERE TOLD AT THE TIME!!This means that the students would have a good case for unfair dismissal if nowhere else could be found for them.Currently there is a 2 year wai for ScATCC and 2.5 for EGCC.So there was no other option after the previous mistakes