TMG rating with EASA PPL

[Zonkor]

Hi forum,

I'm quite confused about the EASA legislation, and the more I read it, the worse it gets! I'd be happy about some guidance from fellow sufferers.

I have an EASA PPL(A) from the UK CAA. According to FCL.205.A, you can fly TMG with a PPL(A):

"FCL.205.A PPL(A) — Privileges

(a) The privileges of the holder of a PPL(A) are to act without remuneration as PIC or co-pilot on aeroplanes or TMGs engaged in non-commercial operations."

However, in various places in CAP804 and Part-FCL a "TMG rating" is mentioned, even in conjunction with a PPL(A).

In fact, it seems you can only credit TMG hours toward the revalidation of a PPL(A) (i.e., SEP rating) if you do hold the ominous TMG rating:

"FCL.740.A Revalidation of class and type ratings – aeroplanes

(2) When applicants hold both a single-engine piston aeroplane-land class rating and a TMG rating, they may complete the requirements of (1) in either class, and achieve revalidation of both ratings."

So how does one get a TMG rating with a PPL(A) (SEP rating)? Is differences training / logbook endorsement sufficient, or a full-blown course and checkride at an ATO?

Thanks,

George

P.s.: Is there an official list of TMG (to set them apart from SLMG)?

[shortstripper]

The old UK CAA PPL's came with a SLMG rating attached. To get a TMG rating you had to "unfreeze" the SLMG rating by having a checkout in something like a Falke or Grob, send off the proof + £70 and you'd have TMG rating. You could then fly either SEP or TMG and cross credit the hours to keep both ratings current.
Touring Motor Gliders have fixed engines rather than "pop up" ones but can be flown on an SLMG or TMG rating.

SS

[Prop swinger]

SEP & TMG are type ratings that can be added to the PPL(A); whatever type you do your training & test in will be the type that comes with your PPL(A). The chances are that you hold an EASA PPL(A) with an SEP(land) type rating - check p4 of the EASA licence.

You need the appropriate type rating to be PIC. If you hold an SEP & TMG type rating the hours in both can be combined for the purposes of rating revalidation by experience; if you revalidate by test a proficiency check in either revalidates both type ratings.

To add a type rating, FCL.725 applies, so a course at an ATO (effectively differences training) followed by a skills test.

SLMG was a CAA term. As far as EASA are concerned, a TMG has a non-retractable engine & propellor. If the engine & prop fold away it's a sailplane & you need a sailplane licence to fly it & a self-launch endorsement to take off using the engine.

[Zonkor]

Thanks for the helpful replies. I'm slowly starting to make sense in interpreting the law.

So FCL.205.A basically (implicitly) means, I can only fly TMG if I obtained the TMG rating. The SEP rating does not allow to fly TMG under a PPL(A). (Makes sense of course, but the formulation of FCL.205.A suggested otherwise without further knowledge.)

What's your recommendation for an ATO? And much flight training would such a SEP -> TMG course typical take?

Thanks,

George

P.s.: You meant "class rating" instead of "type rating" right?

[Level Attitude]

Zonkor you are confusing different elements.

You need 3 things to fly an aircraft:

1) A Pilot's License which grants you certain privileges.
(PPL privileges are as you quoted from FCL.205)

(NB: A TMG is one thing - A sailplane with a non-retractable engine,
Aeroplanes in the sentence you quote could mean many things - SEP(Land),
SEP(Sea), MEP(Land), etc all needing different Ratings)

2) A qualification to fly a certain Class or Type of Aircraft
You say you have an SEP (presumably Land) Rating
So this is the only Class of aircraft you can fly.

3) A medical valid for whichever License Privileges or Rating Qualifications
you wish to exercise.

If you wish to fly a different Class or Type of Aircraft then a new
qualification (eg TMG Rating) will be required and, as PS says,
Part-FCL.725 applies.

Only once a License Holder has both SEP and TMG Ratings does
Part_FCL say the Revalidation requirements can be met on one, the other
or shared between both Ratings.

[S-Works]

The SEP is a Class Rating not a Type rating as is the TMG.

[Zonkor]

Thanks, now it's quite clear. :)

Do you have any suggestion for a place to do the TMG rating?

Thanks,

George

[shortstripper]

Most gliding clubs can put you in touch with a SLMG instructor so you can get your SLMG rating and then fly motor gliders. Finding a TMG examiner though is far more difficult. The aircraft you will be able to fly are the same, but unless the bit of paper says TMG the hours can't be credited towards revalidation of your SEP. I have a TMG rating that has expired and need to find a TMG examiner to renew it.

SS

[ifitaintboeing]

There's a list on the BGA website of places to do your TMG rating:

British Gliding Association >> Instructors >> Motor Gliding - Instructing & Examining (http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/instructors/motorgliding.htm)

ifitaint...

[znww5]

Oxfordshire Sport Flying at Enstone do a lot of this sort of conversion training - PPL(SEP) to TMG, NPPL(SSEA) to SLMG, glider pilot to SLMG etc. They have a local TMG examiner and a rather nice Dimona motor glider with a tricycle undercarriage . Tel: 01608 677208.

Typical training time is around 5 hours, less if you are used to air brakes and wobbly prop.

[Prop swinger]

P.s.: You meant "class rating" instead of "type rating" right? Apparently I do, thank-you. I still have no idea what a variant is.


The trouble with TMGs is that most of the rentable ones are at gliding clubs & you have to be a member to fly them. Not an insurmountable problem but the BGA is not yet an ATO, never was an RTF, so any flying or testing done at a BGA club will not count for the purposes of FCL.725. You can still learn to fly a TMG at a gliding club but they won't (yet) be able to add a TMG rating to your EASA PPL.

I know of only 2 RTFs that offer motor glider training outside of the BGA (during the transition period RTFs count as ATOs.) Click on ifitaint's link, scroll down to power examiners and look for the names Ray Brownrigg (Oxfordshire Sportflying) & Clive Stainer (The MotorGlider Club - although the link by his name points to an SEP training club, he also runs a TMG club at Hinton.)

The Oxfordshire Sportflying website refers exclusively to NPPL SLMG training, & the BGA table shows that Ray Brownrigg is an NPPL SLMG examiner, so you need to be clear with them that you want to add a TMG to an EASA licence before signing up. Clive Stainer is listed as a JAR TMG examiner so is now presumably an EASA TMG examiner.

Section 5 of the NPPL SLMG syllabus (http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/syllabus.php) describes the SLMG specific exercises, although I'm surprised it doesn't mention use of the airbrakes on approach. If you do the training in something as simple & slow as a T61 Venture/Falke, it will take you no time at all. Grob 109s, Dimonas & modern Falkes are a little more complex.

[jez d]

Bicester Gliding Centre appear to be hiring out their Motor Falke at just £69 per hour, including fuel and instructor:

NPPL SLMG Training Courses (http://www.windrushers.org.uk/NPPL-SLMG-Training.htm)

[Zonkor]

Dear forum,

Is there any difference in privileges or requirements between the following two scenarios under Part-FCL, assumed the pilot has both a PPL(A) and an SPL:

1. Adding a TMG rating to the PPL(A)
2. Adding a TMG extension to the SPL

For instance, do TMG hours still count towards SEP land recency under scenario 2?

Thanks,

George

[shortstripper]

Well I recieved my replacement licence back a couple of days ago, but all mention of my TMG rating was missing? I sent them an email and got this reply today ...

Dear Mr Manley

Thank you for your email.

TMG ratings are no longer endorsed on UK licences since the transition
to EASA.

The majority of motor gliders are classed as both SLMG and TMG and may
therefore be flown on a valid SLMG rating.

You can find this information on the GINFO aircraft register.

GINFO Database Search | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety (http://www.caa.co.uk/ginfo)

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you require more information.


Kind Regards

Licensing & Training Standards
Civil Aviation Authority, Safety Regulation Group
Licensing & Training Standards, Aviation House
Gatwick Airport South, West Sussex, RH6 0YR, UK



Is that right? The standard SLMG rating was always on the UK licence anyway. I had to do a test and pay for my TMG rating. That allowed me to use my TMG hours to keep both my SEP and TMG ratings current. I seem to have lost that privilege??? Surely it can't just be removed from my licence? What happens if I apply for a EASA licence ... will it automatically be added back? This just doesn't seem right to me?

SS

[Level Attitude]

Well I recieved my replacement licence back a couple of days ago
What happens if I apply for a EASA licence

Since, from 17 Sept 2012, the CAA only issue EASA Licences do you
not already have one?

[ifitaintboeing]

TMG is an EASA rating; SLMG is a National rating.

If you have a current TMG when you convert to an EASA licence, it should be entered on the front page of your EASA licence in Section XII, with a Certificate of Revalidation date duplicated from the licence which you are converting from.

If the TMG is expired, it will be on the reverse of the licence as a Rating previously held.

The CAA got my TMG wrong also.

ifitaint...

[shortstripper]

Since, from 17 Sept 2012, the CAA only issue EASA Licences do you
not already have one?

I had a pre Jar licence, so no automatic transfer to an EASA licence. I was intending to apply for an EASA after I's renewed my ratings. They sent me a replacement UK licence but in the EASA format.

[mary meagher]

Suggest checking out Brass Neck Aviation. Phil and Christine can sort it out for you, they have both the equipment and the examiner, and actually understand the EASA requirements.

Also they do taildragger training.

[FI99]

Hi Guys,
I am new to PPRuNe, a friend just emailed me your thread to reply.
TMG is an EASA rating. If you have SEP on your license already, you can do differences training and a skills test to add the rating. Of course when you send your application off to the CAA you will then receive back a nice shiny EASA license, but it will take some time to process.
Make sure your medical and other ratings have plenty of validity left on them so they don't run out in the meantime.
Then you can revalidate both SEP and TMG together as one rating (12 hours in last 12 months, one hour instructor flight, etc.)
Remember that if you want to carry passengers in either type you need to have logged 3 take offs and landings on type(or in this case, class) in the previous 90 days.
Also if you miss your revalidation date, you will have two skills tests to do to get both ratings back.
Simple, isn't it?:bored:
Next, SLMG. This can be added to an NPPL through differences training, but since 17th September 2012, you must take a skills test as well.
If someone says otherwise and "signs you up", beware the wrath of the CAA if you have an accident or incident.
The rules changed 17th Sept with the adoption of EASA last year, although in fact the Air Navigation Order always said you need a skills test to add a rating to your license.
Finally holders of the older style UK PPL may already have SLMG printed on it.
If you have never validated this, or it is now invalid, you still have to do a skills test to validate. Again, don't let anyone tell you that you only need differences training.
Hope this helps.:)

[PaulisHome]

I'm struggling with this one.

I've got a UK PPL, with SLMG, and I had SLMG differences signed off in 2011. In the not so old days, £70 would have got me a TMG rating - but I haven't done that yet.

When I transition to EASA do I need a TMG or SLMG? (If I read the last post correctly, it's TMG - but a previous poster said that the CAA claimed not to be putting that class rating on the licenses).

Looking up the motor glider I fly on G-INFO, I discover it's classed as an SLMG.

So when I transition to an EASA license (imminent), do I apply for an SLMG or TMG rating, and what do I need to get it?

(And I've looked through all the relevant CAA documents I can find - they are about as clear as mud).

Paul

[BEagle]

Next, SLMG. This can be added to an NPPL through differences training, but since 17th September 2012, you must take a skills test as well.

If someone says otherwise and "signs you up", beware the wrath of the CAA if you have an accident or incident.

The rules changed 17th Sept with the adoption of EASA last year, although in fact the Air Navigation Order always said you need a skills test to add a rating to your license.


The fact that the ANO did not reflect agreed NPPL policy was pointed out to the CAA on several occasions...

The actual requirement is as stated in CAP 804 Part II Section 5 Part A Appendix 1 Page 8:

SECTION 3. CROSS-CREDITING LICENCES AND RATINGS TO NPPL(A) (SLMG)

3.1 Pilots with valid licences and ratings

3.1.1 NPPL(SSEA), or any UK issued Licence with SEA or SEP Class Rating to NPPL(A)(SLMG)

The holder of a valid NPPL(A) with SSEA Class Rating, or any UK issued licence with SEP or SSEA Class Rating who wishes to obtain an SLMG Class Rating shall:

a) produce the Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) with the rating;

b) produce log book evidence of having satisfactorily completed conversion training with an SLMG Instructor on self-launching motor gliders;

c) hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or Part-MED Class 1, 2 or LAPL medical certificate.

[PaulisHome]

The actual requirement is as stated in CAP 804 Part II Section 5 Part A Appendix 1 Page 8:

Quote:
SECTION 3. CROSS-CREDITING LICENCES AND RATINGS TO NPPL(A) (SLMG)

3.1 Pilots with valid licences and ratings

3.1.1 NPPL(SSEA), or any UK issued Licence with SEA or SEP Class Rating to NPPL(A)(SLMG)

The holder of a valid NPPL(A) with SSEA Class Rating, or any UK issued licence with SEP or SSEA Class Rating who wishes to obtain an SLMG Class Rating shall:

a) produce the Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) with the rating;

b) produce log book evidence of having satisfactorily completed conversion training with an SLMG Instructor on self-launching motor gliders;

c) hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or Part-MED Class 1, 2 or LAPL medical certificate.


Thanks - but I already have an SLMG rating on my UK PPL (it's been there for years), and I've done the differences training (a couple of years ago). How do I get that (or a TMG) onto my soon to be new EASA PPL SEP?

[Prop swinger]

I don't think you can. Looking at CAP804, your SLMG sign off will earn you TMG and/or self-launch sailplane endorsements on a sailplane licence (depending on what sort of SLMG you have been flying) but doesn't count for a TMG rating on an EASA PPL(A).

It may be that the easiest way would be to do a TMG skills test with a TMG examiner & include the TMG rating application form with your EASA conversion paperwork.

The CAA allowed SEP holders to fly TMGs without a TMG rating. You will need a TMG rating on your EASA PPL(A) to fly TMGs, & the rating will be printed on your EASA licence.

[Zonkor]

Just a quick update:

I finally went to Oxfordshire Sport Flying (OSF) in Enstone to do the TMG training in their Super Dimona. The checkride can be done on weekdays with Clive Stainer who is based in Hinton just a few miles away. (The aircraft will be flown from Enstone to Hinton for the checkride and back.)

I can definitely recommend OSF for the TMG training, and I'll sure be back for some more flying in beautiful Southern England when I'm in the area.

[strollerweb]

I have been looking to add a TMG to my EASA license and have contacted about 6 of the people on the BGA list to find out how to do this:
British Gliding Association >> Instructors >> Motor Gliding - Instructing & Examining (http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/instructors/motorgliding.htm)
This list is out of date as Mike Carter on that list came back saying he had retired over a year ago!

There is a lot of confusion about what and whom can do the instruction and examining, so I took the approach I use with the Tax Man 'ask the same question three times over three days and take the average answer' only problem is after asking 6 people only two have come back with the same answer!!

I was also told that getting a TMG also means you can signed of for tail wheel aircraft as well! as long as the motor glider is a tail wheel of course. although I'm still trying to get that confirmed with 2 saying yes and 1 saying no.

hopefully today I will have all the answers and be in a position to start booking....

[Piper.Classique]

I lost my SLMG when I went from a UK PPL to a French one (It is a natioal rating) In France you can fly any motor glider on a glider pilot's licence, with an instructor sign-off for each different type. This may change in the future, so I have just done my TMG on a Dimona. Had to be with the right sort of examiner, i.e. Power and Glider. It allows me to fly TMG but not retractable engine motor gliders, that still requires a glider pilot's licence. I may stop the engine in flight but only while I continue to hold a valid glider pilot's licence. It does mean that I now have an international licence for TMG. Confused? Good. So am I.

Cost? Two hours flying, an hour with an instructor for type familiarisation, followed by an hours test. That gives me the TMG with tailwheel and VP variants. The Dimona is a pretty easy taildragger, as taildraggers go. The prop is a manual three position one, fine, coarse, and feathered.

The DGAC don't charge to put an extra rating on an existing licence. i'll be driving to Poitiers this week to the local DGAC office to get the stamp in my liçence.

[172510]

Piper Classiqu"I may stop the engine in flight but only while I continue to hold a valid glider pilot's licence. It does mean that I now have an international licence for TMG. Confused? Good. So am I."

Why would you need a licence to fly a glider to be allowed to stop the engine of a TMG if you have an EASA PPL(A) with a TMG?

[Piper.Classique]

Sheesh, I don't know. Ask EASA. I just want to make sure I get grandmothered in when France signs up to the loony bin.

[Whopity]

The TMG is a Class not a Type rating. The validity period is not unique to TMG ratings, but applies to any additional Class or Type rating added to a licence

FCL.725 Requirements for the issue of class and type ratings
(c) Skill test. An applicant for a class or type rating shall pass a skill test in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part to demonstrate the skill required for the safe operation of the applicable class or type of aircraft.

The applicant shall pass the skill test within a period of 6 months after commencement of the class or type rating training course and within a period of 6 months preceding the application for the issue of the class or type rating.

[172510]

To PiperClassique
I don't think you need to have a SPL licence nor any sort of glider licence to be allowed to stop the engine in a TMG. If you have a valid TMG rating valid on an EASA PPL(A), you may fly the TMG within its limitations, and hence stop the engine in flight.
You also wrote that you have a TMG with VP and TW variant.
My understanding is that there is no such thing as a variant for an EASA TMG rating. Your EASA TMG rating is valid on all TMG's subject to familiarization training. My understanding is that the fact the you took a test on a variable pitch and tail wheel TMG does not allow you to fly SEP with VP nor TW, even if you have a valid SEP rating.

[Piper.Classique]

Thank you 172510.
I will go on the understanding of the office that issues my licence. As I fly SEP tailwheel anyway, more in fact than anything else, the fact that I did the TMG test on a tailwheel aircraft is irrelevant to my SEP.
I only did it for the grandfathering anyway, as I can fly TMG on a glider pilot licence ( French national licence) or indeed a retractable engine self launcher.

[172510]

I'm trying without luck to find a place where I could train for a TMG/SLMG rating around London, the schools/clubs I tried don't return emails, don't answer the phone, or when they do tell me either that they don't have an instructor or that they don't have an airworthy aircraft.
If anyone can help me...

[znww5]

172510 - I have PM'ed you.

[vjmehra]

Why PM, why not post here, so everyone can see? It would be interesting to know if there is anywhere near London doing PPL (TMG).

[znww5]

@ vjmehra

OSF at Enstone has been recommended on here by Zonkor, so you already know that there is a club which can do the training. Their web address is Oxfordshire Sportflying Club - Operators of Enstone Aerodrome (http://www.enstoneaerodrome.co.uk)

Personally, I am not aware of any other club which can do TMG conversions for JAR/EASA PPL holders. If you look at their website, OSF also offer ab initio NPPL/SLMG training as well as conversions for NPPL/SSEA and glider licence holders.

I don't have information on other organisations which may offer NPPL/SLMG training, so I have nothing to contributre on that front. You could however contact a few gliding clubs and check their web sites.

[vjmehra]

Yep, was hoping from your previous post you knew of one a it closer that's all!

[172510]

Windrushers Bicester Airfield: they did not return my email. Their website advertise that they can train for SLMG/TMG rating.
Wycombe Booker gliding club: they don't do it
Oxfordshire Sportflying Enstone Aerodrome: they don't return emails either, but they are still in business.
Lasham: their motor glider will fly again next year.


To fly a TMG under EASA rules, you need
- either a TMG rating on an EASA PPL(A) or any other aeroplane licence or
- a LAPL(S) or SPL (SPL stands for Sail Plane I suppose) with TMG privileges.

A NPPL(SLMG) should be, according to CAP 804, easy to convert into a LAPL(S) or SPL with TMG privileges.
I don't know of any way to get a TMG rating on a PPL(A) on the basis of a NPPL(SLMG)

[Prop swinger]

Give Lasham another call, they've borrowed one for SLMG training.

[172510]

I lost my SLMG when I went from a UK PPL to a French one (It is a natioal rating) In France you can fly any motor glider on a glider pilot's licence, with an instructor sign-off for each different type.
What do you mean by "I lost". Did the CAA or DGAC demanded that you return your NPPL? Or do you mean that you didn't keep your SLMG rating valid?

[1.3VStall]

OK Chaps,

Can anyone give me a definitive answer to this question?

I have a UK PPL (valid for life) with two current ratings:SEP(L) and SLMG. When I apply for an EASA PPL, will my SLMG rating be transferred across as TMG on the new licence?

[cockney steve]

Try applying and find out? :p


All this confusion has helped to answer my question on another thread...."why are motor-gliders not more popular"

When the people supposedlyrunning the asylum can't get their act together without a load of unnecessary, arcane gobbledygook, there's not much hope for the "clients" they are supposed to be serving.

I don't see how any authority can arbitrarily and autocratically deny you the reissuance of a licence which you hold.......altering the group or type within which the subject of that licence sits, is an accepted Norm.


A UK motor vehicle licence has had several group-modifications over the years.... cars were split into Auto-Trans and Manual.....if you held a full licence you were "Grandfathered" both types....likewise 3-wheelers. formerly, with reverse required a car-licence, non-reversible was a motorcycle licence...come the 3-wheelergrouping, both car and motorcycle licensees were "Grandfathered " for 3-wheelers.


As an outsider, it appears that , generally, TMG's are basically a big-winged SEP, SLMG's -more a sailplane with an engine added.

I'm sure that if the beaurocratic will was present, it would not be beyond their wit or resources to simplify the whole thing, as it is, their vested interest in keeping themselves in a job ,is whet shines through....
They managed to make a differentiation with 3-axis microlights and the rules are simple-enough that the same basic airframe can be in either category according to engine or wing-loading....so why ythe huge issue with any form of motorised sailplane?

I really can't be arsed to jump through all those hoops...the thought appeals immensely,but the hassle outweighs the potential reward.

[Prop swinger]

OK Chaps,

Can anyone give me a definitive answer to this question?

I have a UK PPL (valid for life) with two current ratings:SEP(L) and SLMG. When I apply for an EASA PPL, will my SLMG rating be transferred across as TMG on the new licence?Yes it will. Logbook evidence of having done differences training in a TMG (not a self launch sailplane) is enough to add a TMG rating to an EASA PPL(A) on conversion.

cockney steve, there is nothing remotely complicated.

This is a TMG:
Super Ximango - Motorglider - YouTube


This is a self launch sailplane:
Binder EB28 @ LondonGlidingClub - YouTube


The only people who get confused are those who persist in using the term SLMG.

[Level Attitude]

When I apply for an EASA PPL, will my SLMG rating be transferred
across as TMG on the new licence?
I doubt anything will get "transferred across" without being requested.

If you want something you must apply for it, particularly in this case as you
don't have an existing TMG rating to be transferred.

I suggest you put TMG in Section 7 of SRG1104, and write next to it
why you believe you are entitled to it. Then the guys & gals at Gatwick
know to check if you meet the requirements.

[Piper.Classique]

As an outsider, it appears that , generally, TMG's are basically a big-winged SEP, SLMG's -more a sailplane with an engine added.

Nope, they are one and the same. Can tour on motor or soar without. Non retractable engine, autonomous take off. Not usually excellent as a glider. The difference is beauropratic......

Self launching sailplane has no real touring capacity, the engine is usually retractable (or the engine is tucked away with a retractable prop as in Stemme) . So you can get airborne and get home when the thermals die. A self sustainer will not take off, but will get you home. Good glider, small endurance motor.

[pilotprof]

I have a UK PPL with current SEP rating but not a current SLMG rating. This is an non-expiring UK PPL/SLMG. I have a logbook stamp of having had a satisfactory test for an SLMG rating & some hours P1 in SLMGs but that was 20 years ago.

What would I need to be legal as P1 on SLMGs? A proficiency check, skills test, or more differences training? Or am I permitted to fly SLMGs on the basis of the current SEP rating and the previous test (following differences training), as one of the CAA documents implies? I would then wish to convert my licence to an EASA PPL and add TMG (and SEP) ratings.

[1.3VStall]

Pilotproof,

I was in exactly the same position as you until last month.

After a one-hour SLMG renewal flight with a CAA SLMG Examiner he signed both my logbook and the CAA "Aircraft Rating - Certificate of Test/Check or Experience" form.

So, my "valid for life" UK PPL now has two current ratings, SEP(L) and SLMG, ready to transfer across to my new EASA PPL, which I have yet to apply for.

[cockney steve]

@ Prop swinger
cockney steve, there is nothing remotely complicated.

forty-odd replies to this thread , say you're wrong!:}

The whole thing is a beaurocrat's wet dream...sorry, I aint playing. when it becomes a simple, reasonable and straightforward procedure to identify a group, learn to fly and obtain a licence, I may consider it...Meanwhile, I suspect there are thousands like me, who take up sailing or another hobby, simply because Aviation isn't worth the bother or expense.

I remember the early hang-glider days, when the authorities were caught with their pants down, so there was NO regulation , other than Darwinian selection.
Microlighting still seems to be lightly-regulated,-perhaps that's the way forward.

[pilotprof]

Thank you, 1.3VStall (http://www.pprune.org/members/17743-1-3vstall). that's exactly what I want. I will contact a SLMG examiner and ask for a check. By the way, where did you do it?
PilotProf

[1.3VStall]

PP - I did my flight at Bicester.

[Jim59]

I asked the CAA where I can find a TMG Examiner in SE England. The reply I received is below. I think they mean 'do not'! What's the point of having examiners if they are a secret - they don't seem to have a problem listing AMEs?

Thank you for your email received.

Due to the UK Data Protection Act unfortunately we do hold a list of authorised examiners. You will need to contact Training Providers directly to see if they have authorised examiners you can use.

I am sorry that I could not have been of more assistance to you.

Yours sincerely

[1.3VStall]

Jim59,

Try the BGA website.

1.3V

[PaulisHome]

I can report success on this one
Originally Posted by 1.3VStall View Post
OK Chaps,

Can anyone give me a definitive answer to this question?

I have a UK PPL (valid for life) with two current ratings:SEP(L) and SLMG. When I apply for an EASA PPL, will my SLMG rating be transferred across as TMG on the new licence?

I've just had confirmation from the CAA that they are giving me a TMG rating based on a UK PPL with SLMG differences signed off. It took two goes - they didn't do it first time, so I had to go back and point that out.

I can forward the relevant emails to anyone who wants them.

Paul

[znww5]

PH - PM sent!

[1.3VStall]

PH - one from me as well!

1.3V

[much2much]

I was just wondering about my SLMG on my old PPL ,I lost the licence. Well it was stolen,
But to get a new licence I added a SSEA. it came back with SSEA and a night rating, nothing else,and only SEP, in the "previously held page" where has SLMG gone?
Since I wish to fly microlight, and may be a Faulke, will I have to add two more class ratings , SLMG and Microlight??