ATZ indefinitely suspended

[TooL8]

Can Ppruners shed some light on the spate of ATZ indefinite suspensions?

Sibson EGSP just came to my attention via NOTAMs

I presume there's an economic driver in here somewhere.

Will not having an ATZ marked on the charts make an airfield less safe as acft overfly and active field?

[S-Works]

Sibson, is a little more than just cash. A licence needs a named responsible person. If that person sells the business then a new manager must be appointed. I understand they may have overlooked this!

You do need to be aware that despite being without an ATZ it is still an active DZ.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Sibson have recently given up their Aerodrome License. For some strange reason, without FIS or ATC, an ATZ is not possible.

[MetOffice]

The noun is licenCe!

[Sir Richard]

Depends on where you learn English....The verb license or grant license means to give permission. The noun license (American English) or licence (British English, Indian English, Canadian English)

:rolleyes:

[airpolice]

'Chuffer' Dandridge Sibson have recently given up their Aerodrome License. For some strange reason, without FIS or ATC, an ATZ is not possible.


Not true. Lots of places have neither.

[ShyTorque]

For some strange reason, without FIS or ATC, an ATZ is not possible.

No, that's incorrect.

Check out EGNF, EGBT, EGBD, EGSL, EGBM, EGCL off the top of my head, many others in the AIP too ...... ;)

[chevvron]

To have an ATZ, the airfield must be one of the following:
1) A licensed airfield with a means of 2 -way communication with aircraft.
2) An airfield with a licensed FISO unit.
3) An airfield with a licensed ATC unit.
Hence unlicensed with AGCS = no ATZ.

[Pilot.Lyons]

Haha i love the picky over one word issues on pprunne..... Makes me larf ;)

[Talkdownman]

It's 'laugh'... := ... :E

[TooL8]

As the half mil etc will still show the Sibson drop zone, I hope pilots will still see and plan accordingly! Without a drop zone marked, Sibson is reduced to a 'small circle' on the chart!

The one thing I have taken from this is not to make assumptions about the volume of traffic to expect o/h an airfield without a charted ATZ.

[TooL8]

From CAP 724 Airspace Charter..The qualifying criteria and the provisions for the establishment of ATZ are contained in Rule 45 of the Rules of the Air Regulations 2007.
No they're not - I've had a look at this SI and Rule 45 is all about what the pilot will do in an ATZ :ugh:

From CAA 'Establishment and Dimensions of Aerodrome Traffic Zones (ATZ)' July 20103.4 The CAA will consider the establishment of an ATZ at a licensed aerodrome at which an air traffic control service, flight information service or air/ground communication service is provided. Hours of ATZ activation will be limited to the notified hours of watch of the air traffic service unit or of the air/ground communication service.
3.5 The CAA will consider the establishment of an ATZ at an unlicensed aerodrome at which an air traffic control service or flight information service is provided. Hours of ATZ activation will be limited to the notified hours of watch of the air traffic service unit.
3.6 The CAA will consider the temporary establishment of an ATZ at any aerodrome in general accordance with the policy described herein, except that in the interest of expediency, the related process will not routinely involve industry-wide consultation. The operator / licensee of an aerodrome at which an ATZ is established will be required to ensure that the appropriate air traffic control service, flight information service or air/ground communication service is provided throughout the promulgated periods of ATZ activation.

So that's cleared that up then .. :}

[Oldpilot55]

Henstridge, Langar and Chatteris, to name but three, have long established DZs but no ATZ. It is quite common.

[TCAS FAN]

"Chuffer Dandridge" & Chevvron

Not now the case, Lee-on-Solent, who are unlicensed and providing A/G have recently securred an ATZ. The reason for DAP awarding it was the proximity of the Solent CTA/Southampton CTR and aircraft overflying, not speaking to A/G, while trying to avoid CAS. Lee has frequent gliding and some GA.

If Lee can justify an ATZ, if Sibson still has regular para activity, possibly able to secure an ATZ with a suitably robust safety case.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

The noun is licenCe!
Ah, the spelling Police. Soz, I jus plane forgot this woz a klassroom and dares always some clever dicky going to correct my pi$$ poor english. :rolleyes:

Back to the subject. I should have said that without an Aerodrome LICENCE, if you've only got A/G, then you cant have ATZ. North Denes, having A/G, is an exception for some reason but I believe it's historical.



TCAS Fan,

Not now the case, Lee-on-Solent, who are unlicensed and providing A/G have recently securred an ATZ

'Secured' is probably the wrong word. Unless they get their LICENCE, or upgrade to a minimum of FIS, they won't get their ATZ, even though they have been approved for one. The establishment of the ATZ is conditional on an Aerodrome LICENCE being issued. Unless somebody knows better than me on this particular subject?:E

Everything spelt ok MetOffice?:ok:

[wb9999]

TCAS FAN, the Lee-on-Solent decision letter from the CAA in December mentions:
"In terms of timescales, you may recall that the request for an ATZ was co-incidental with an aerodrome licensing application. Indeed, as the aerodrome is served by an air/ground facility, an ATZ could not be introduced prior to the aerodrome achieving licensed status. Therefore the ATZ will be established as and when the Aerodrome becomes licensed."

I'm guessing that, as the ATZ appears to be active from 28 January, Lee-on-Solent is now licensed

'Chuffer' Dandridge, it looks like North Denes is ATC, as it has a tower frequency.

[2 sheds]

North Denes is ATC and the services are combined Aerodrome Control and Approach Services on one frequency. Notified in the AIP.

2 s

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Lee on Solent does not have a CAA Aerodrome Licence. Yet

So no ATZ

[phiggsbroadband]

Hi, One other factor is that if you have a big circle around your airfield Farmer Brown cannot get planning permission to build a 120ft Grain Silo just beyond your perimeter hedge.

[2 sheds]

Why not?

2 s

[chevvron]

What size is the one at Seething then?

[Sir George Cayley]

An aerodrome ATZ is different from the safeguarding circle. If an aerodrome is safeguarded either statutorily or by agreement, local planners consult on proposed developments.

These proposals can include farm buildings, but it's a height thing. A safeguarding map is divided into squares and colour coded. If a proposed development is higher than the code then it's referred to the aerodrome. Other developments such as bird attractants are also consulted on.

It would be possible for a licensed (it's changed to an S now :eek:) aerodrome without an ATZ to be safeguarded, though unlicensed with or without ATZ may be less likely.

The reason for the steady flow of licence (God, it's back to a C :ooh:) hand backs started when the CAA removed the requirement to be licensed solely for the purposes of flying training.

Not only are there cost savings but one doesn't have to run around before each inspection.:ok:

I really hope Lee carries on growing and the ATZ is permanently established. Then they can think about GPS approaches.

SGC

[chevvron]

They might like to think about GPS approaches, but I've just seen a private communication which implies the CAA will require a minimum of FISO if they approve it, hence they could get an ATZ for this reason too.

[Talkdownman]

They might like to think about GPS approaches, but I've just seen a private communication which implies the CAA will require a minimum of FISO if they approve it
AFIS is intended for Public Transport (See: Air Navigation (General) Regulations 2006 Part 4), not GPS approaches.
Would it possible to have a GPS approach with AGCS only, and without an ATZ? ;)

[ShyTorque]

Hi, One other factor is that if you have a big circle around your airfield Farmer Brown cannot get planning permission to build a 120ft Grain Silo just beyond your perimeter hedge.

You'd probably be amazed, if not horrified, to see what's being built around London's only Heliport (with an ATZ).