Local Bimble, Almost (Not) a Near-miss

[mightlookstupid]

Was up for a bimble a few weeks ago, came back to join and on crosswind spotted another a/c on the downwind leg (Looked a bit like a Cub) but it was going the wrong way. I had the telltale 'fixed and growing in the windscreen' so took early avoiding action. My first concern was that it was going the wrong way on our downwind leg, and should I have continued my circuit I would have hit him on the downwind corner. The guys on the ground saw it and asked me if I saw the reg on the a/c. I gave them a negative, used extra vigilance (Although he wasn't on the radio I had visions of him using the circuit for the opposite runway due to it being late in the day, hardly anyone about and zero wind with the sun very awkward on the runway in use), I didn't want to meet him again on the ground and kept an eye on him whilst carrying on with my now defunct circuit.

He disappeared into the sun and I made an uneventful landing. After said landing, one of the club's most experienced pilots (16,000hrs+) confirmed that he was the one who asked if I caught the reg as he was going to report him. I wasn't going to argue, as I have only just celebrated my 100th hour, but my first thought was 'isn't that a bit harsh?' If VFR and flying into the sun it can be difficult to navigate, as we all know. I know it could have been fatal, but it wasn't, and we've all been lost at some point or another. It wasn't a close call, he was a long way off me. A good mile or two, at least.

Am I wrong? What's your thoughts?

[what next]

...he was going to report him.

Report him for what? Flying VFR? See and be seen? Being seen but not seeming to see himself?

Maybe in the UK everything is different again, but in my part of the world, you need to be inside a control zone orn an ATZ in order to be protected from other traffic while doing your traffic patterns. As there are currently no ATZs in my part of the world, every airfield without a control zone must be considered open airspace. Of course it is not the best airmanship to fly through traffic patterns at or below pattern height, but it ain't forbidden.

My most impressive experience like the one you had was an American B52 flying right through the traffic circuit of an aerodrome where I was practising landings with a student. Luckily he was slightly below pattern height so we didn't get into his wake turbulence (almost certainly lethal for a C152 at 1000ft AGL) but got away with an "incipient heart attack" instead... When I asked the radio operator if he had seen that monster, he replied "never mind, they do that all the time, complaints are useless".

[Jim59]

UK rules of the air require pilots to conform to the traffic pattern when near any airfield whether or not it has an ATZ. Flying the wrong way on the downwind leg to an active runway is not legal.

[piperboy84]

If its uncontrolled and no pattern is published , who decides if its left or right traffic?

[soaringhigh650]

Ah! The non-radio guys. :)

They always catch you by surprise at the smaller fields.

[dont overfil]

If its uncontrolled and no pattern is published , who decides if its left or right traffic?

Theoretically the signals square. They seem to be going out of fashion. Maybe AG radio?

Sounds like a typical unplanned bimble.

D.O.

[taxistaxing]

Theoretically the signals square. They seem to be going out of fashion. Maybe AG radio?



What if it's an airfield like (for example) Bembridge where it is not actually "closed" but is unmanned on certain days, so there is no signals square. Circuits only allowed on one side of the aerodrome so circuit direction reverses according to the wind direction which you gauge from the windsock, and make blind calls. If it's nill wind, and you're non radio, you could be caught out by someone who happened to have chosen the opposing runway.

OP, might the cub you saw have been non-radio and simply joined the circuit, happening to choose the opposing runway to you for whatever reason (you mentioned it was nill wind), and then decided to abort the landing? Maybe it wasn't obvious which runway was in use?

[callum91]

If its uncontrolled and no pattern is published , who decides if its left or right traffic?

The Rules of the Air Rule 12 Flight in the vicinity of an aerodrome
(1) Subject to paragraph (2), a flying machine, glider or airship flying in the vicinity of what the commander of the aircraft knows, or ought reasonably to know, to be an aerodrome shall:
(a) conform to the pattern of traffic formed by other aircraft intending to land at that aerodrome or keep clear of the airspace in which the pattern is formed; and
(b) make all turns to the left unless ground signals otherwise indicate.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply if the air traffic control unit at that aerodrome otherwise authorises.

[Thud105]

If there was "hardly anyone about and zero wind with the sun very awkward on the runway in use" maybe the Cub (or whatever it was) pilot had the wit to use a runway that wasn't "very awkward with the sun". Why do so many UK pilot follow each other around like sheep, instead of thinking? Why not use a runway that wasn't tricky because of where the sun was? I'm sure we've all experienced that horrible squinting into a glaring sun that's right at the end of the runway through 30-year old glazed and scratched Perspex. Land on another runway - no bother.
Shame that scenario didn't occur to the 16,000-hour pilot, who was so keen to file a complaint.

[RTN11]

Although your experience pilot friend said he was going to report him, he may in fact have meant as an airprox.

The airprox system is in place so if you feel you have had a close call, you can report it, it's not a system of blame, it's an assessment of whether a near miss actually occurred, and what could be done in either training or legislation to avoid similar events.

I've had two such reports filed, one where we were both flying over a local gathering, I feel we both learned a valuable lesson about extra vigilant when looking at something other pilots may well be wanting to look at, and one with a fast jet low level, which probably happens every day.

You could file a report on this occurrence if you felt that a near miss took place, but it is ideal if both parties file a report.

UK Airprox Board (http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/)

[phiggsbroadband]

Hi, Could it have been that the Cub was not trying for a Landing, but had just
Taken Off from the out of sun runway, and was just setting course for a cross country to another airfield?

[Ballywalter Flyer]

I think that you were Very lucky.
A year ago we lost a good friend to a mid air within the circuit.
BBC News - Martin Hickin fatal air crash report blames sun (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-20244384)
Low sun could be to blame.
As for circuit direction. I was always taught ALL circuits are to the left unless otherwise stated.
RIP Martin:sad:

[mightlookstupid]

Maybe in the UK everything is different again, but in my part of the world, you need to be inside a control zone orn an ATZ in order to be protected from other traffic while doing your traffic patternsOK first off, it's the UK. The airfield had an ATZ a while ago, but is now unlicenced (since not long after training was allowed) and no longer has one. There are strict rules about overflying a certain area very close to the downwind leg, which apparently carry legal consequences but it's only marked on the map as a restriction for helis. Other than that, if you were unfamiliar with the field and hadn't looked in Pooley's, you wouldn't know you shouldn't fly over it.

What if it's an airfield like (for example) Bembridge where it is not actually "closed" but is unmanned on certain days, so there is no signals square. Circuits only allowed on one side of the aerodrome so circuit direction reverses according to the wind direction which you gauge from the windsock, and make blind calls. If it's nill wind, and you're non radio, you could be caught out by someone who happened to have chosen the opposing runway. That's pretty much what it was like, they've never had a signals square and the A/G was manned on this occasion as I was talking to them. I was initially asked if I'd gotten the reg over the radio as I took avoiding action. Circuits are only allowed on one side.

OP, might the cub you saw have been non-radio and simply joined the circuit, happening to choose the opposing runway to you for whatever reason (you mentioned it was nill wind), and then decided to abort the landing? Maybe it wasn't obvious which runway was in use? He could have been non-radio, everyone seems to be assuming cub = non-radio but I'm not sure it was a cub, just that it was high wing and yellow. I don't know if he was having a look at the field but it also looked as though he flew over the area he shouldn't have, so wasn't bang on the downwind. You'd think that if he intended to land, he'd have prepared and telephoned prior to arrival (Regardless of whether PPR or not) for advice and realised not to fly over the said area.

I'm pretty sure the intention wasn't to land, as he never turned base, he just flew on his path.


If there was "hardly anyone about and zero wind with the sun very awkward on the runway in use" maybe the Cub (or whatever it was) pilot had the wit to use a runway that wasn't "very awkward with the sun". Why do so many UK pilot follow each other around like sheep, instead of thinking? I'm 90% sure that he wasn't aware he was in our circuit, though I could be wrong.

As for my own decision, I landed into the sun as the A/G guy told me it was favourable with the (very little) wind. We also discussed using the other and I elected not to as I was confident that I could make the landing without any drama. It's a pretty standard practice at our field. If you can, do it. As I said before, circuits are only allowed on one side so when the circuit's busy you don't want to go landing on whichever runway you please. It was quiet on this occasion but it's a habit we get into. If you want to use the other runway and it's busy it's best to stay out of the circuit either until it quietens down or the A/G operator gets a few comments along the same lines and elects to change his recommendation.

Shame that scenario didn't occur to the 16,000-hour pilot, who was so keen to file a complaint.I got the impression he was pretty certain the pilot's intention wasn't to land, as was I. It was a straight, unaltered track from one horizon to the other.

Although your experience pilot friend said he was going to report him, he may in fact have meant as an airprox.Good point, he could well have, but with his tone on the radio I'm not sure. I personally wouldn't say it's something that's likely to happen any more regularly than at any other unlicenced airfield, so don't see the point in filing an airprox if it won't do any good. I'm not really highlighting a new 'flaw in the system' if you know what I mean.

Hi, Could it have been that the Cub was not trying for a Landing, but had just
Taken Off from the out of sun runway, and was just setting course for a cross country to another airfield?Good question, but he hadn't just taken off as the '16k pilot' had been there all day on the A/G and would have known the reg.

I think that you were Very lucky.
A year ago we lost a good friend to a mid air within the circuit.We were a long way off, but if his visibility was reduced due to haze and I hadn't seen him, it could have been messy.

Anyway, back to the original question. Assuming he meant ringing the CAA or the nearest tower to find him or something, isn't that a bit harsh? What would you do?

[airpolice]

Might this be the same yellow aircraft from a similar incident at Errol a few months ago?

[F4TCT]

During my building up of solo time at wellesbourne, I was doing circuits and the useless controller there (no names mentioned but it certainly wasn't John) cleared a slower aircraft than me to take off when i was mid final. Nearly ran into the back of him as he was climbing out, so broke left to deadside and rejoined accordingly.

Other times the circuit used to get very very busy indeed with sometimes 7 aircraft all buzzing round. Again we got quite close but we were all in the same direction. When it got a bit too busy, "final to land" and try it again later in the day. Just becomes a tad bit uncomfortable when its like that.

Another time me and the instructor were out and about around leicester and out from nowhere came a glider being towed. We were around 400ft above them and nowhere near where a glider could be towed away from..

Alls well in the end, just keep your eyes wide open!

[2 sheds]

F4TCT
During my building up of solo time at wellesbourne, I was doing circuits and the useless controller there (no names mentioned but it certainly wasn't John) cleared a slower aircraft than me to take off when i was mid final.
The AIP says that Wellesbourne has FIS, not ATC, so it would not be a controller and he would not have issued a take-off clearance. So what does that make you for not understanding the service that you were receiving...?

2 s

[India Four Two]

The current Sandown runway status thread reminded me of a near miss I had there.

Downwind right-hand for 23 in a radio-equipped Tiger Moth, we nearly had a head-on with an untalkative C150 which was downwind left-hand for the reciprocal runway 05.

I hadn't previously thought about the implications of different circuit directions for the same runway at uncontrolled airports, but I'm very aware of it now. :eek:


We were around 400ft above them and nowhere near where a glider could be towed away from..

F4TCT,
You should know that gliders are often aero-towed cross-country, particularly large, heavy two-seaters. It's often more convenient that moving them by trailer.

From the tug pilot's point of view, 400' would be lots of clearance and I suspect he had probably seen you well in advance. Towing gliders, particularly near a busy gliding field, is very much a "look out of the cockpit" business.