££Cost of the new EASA PPL££??

[Padge]

Hi can someone help, I'm filling in the application for a Part-FCL PPL; gonna enclose a cheque but for how much?

I'm sure it doesn't say on the form. I could be going word blind, this form is a pain.

Cheers

P

[guyleedsutd]

The licence is £185 if its a new application then you need to add £6 on for the private courier service.hope this helps

[Padge]

cheers,

seems a lot, did it go up after the EASA applications came in?

[robin]

It's only £73 for a change of licence (ie from UK PPL to EASA PPL)

[Padge]

Mines a new one so I get stung for £191 like guyleedsutd said. Suppose it's a drop in the ocean when you stack it up against the cost of all the training etc. Cheaper flying from here on in!

[BEagle]

....did it go up after the EASA applications came in?

The difference is that it the PPL is now valid for life, rather than for 5 years (although you'll still need to revalidate / renew your SEP Class Rating) - so if anything, the price came down significantly.

[Padge]

Thanks for that bit of good news!

[riverrock83]

to get the value from the "horse's mouth" see
FCL Fee Calculator for holders, or applicants of UK Issued Flight Crew Licences | Pilots | Personal Licences and Training (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=175&pagetype=65&appid=52&showworking=true)

[Shoestring Flyer]

'It's only £73 for a change of licence (ie from UK PPL to EASA PPL) '

Don't think so...

£65 for UK-EASA change + £73 for RT Licence (which only lasts 10years!!) + another £35 if you choose to fly an Annex 2 aircraft).

It is the RT licence which according to the scheme of charges only last 10years I find particularly annoying.

[robin]

£65 for UK-EASA change + £73 for RT Licence (which only lasts 10years!!) + another £35 if you choose to fly an Annex 2 aircraft).


Actually, as I understand it, if you have a non-expiring UK-PPL or an EASA PPL then that covers you for Annexe II

I hadn't realised we needed to pay for a radio licence for a UK-PPL - EASA PPL. That one is new to me. The CAA checklist indicates that radio comes under national rules, so I assume as I have a UK-PPL non-expiring licence, my radio licence will remain as it is without a 10year expiry

[Shoestring Flyer]

Robin...I would like to think you were right but I have my doubts...

If you follow the charges calculator down it asks if you are going to fly and Annexe 2 aircraft and then automatically adds £35 to the calculation.

The Radio telephony licence, is confusing because it is a Rating on your licence and you need to therefore add it (£73). Then if you look in the scheme of charges it says that a RT licence only lasts for 10years!

Confusing or what!

[riverrock83]

Thats very strange. I was under the impression that a Part-FCL licence entitles you to fly Annex 2 aircraft.

From http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/g-May2012_v6.pdf 1.5

1.5 The 2012 amendment of the Air navigation Order renders EASA licences with the appropriate class rating to be valid for UK-registered non-EASA aircraft within those classes; thereby avoiding the need for the holder of an EASA PPL(A) with SEP rating to also hold a national licence in order to fly an amateur-built aeroplane or a Tigermoth, for example...


The exception is for type ratings, as you can't add a type rating for a non-EASA aircraft to a Part-FCL licence so you need the piggyback national licence...


Also see http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/h-FAQs%20May%202012.pdf part 39.

How are they justifying the extra charge?

I'm sure there are more up to date references that someone else can find (I've not got into the ANO / Cap...

[Whopity]

I hadn't realised we needed to pay for a radio licence for a UK-PPL - EASA PPL. That one is new to meAnd the rest of us. It has always been the case that the UK FRTOL is issued free to the holder of a UK flight crew licence and the application form said so. The new SRG1106 does not say so however; ORS5-269 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/269PLSAmd.pdf) Table 4 note 2 says2 Except where the applicant is the holder of a licence issued by the UK CAA to act as pilot,
flight navigator or flight engineer. So there is still no charge for a FRTOL when the applicant is either applying for, or the holder of, a UK flight crew licence.

[riverrock83]

This is cheeky:
Ratings check on a re-issued EASA Flight Crew Licence
Upon such application that would require an existing EASA Flight Crew Licence to be reissued, the applicant shall pay to the CAA a charge of £20 for all existing ratings associated with that licence to be checked for currency of validity.

Therefore to add an RT rating to a licence, it would actually cost you the extra £20 as well - so £99 rather than £79.

[Whopity]

FRTOL is not a rating!

[riverrock83]

FRTOL is not a rating!
Correct - which makes this especially cheeky.

Adding a new radio licence to your Part-FCL licence (which, to be honest, isn't a common thing to do as I suspect 99% of people will have it on there when they get their licence initially) involves the CAA re-issuing the licence.

When they re-issue a licence, they do a ratings check, costing you £20 extra...

[wb9999]

As mentioned by Whopity, there is no charge for the issue of an FRTOL where the applicant is the holder of a licence issued by the UK CAA to act as pilot,
flight navigator or flight engineer.

[riverrock83]

Fair enough - I see the note in the PDF (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=4843) version of the scheme of charges.

The online calculator (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=175&pagetype=65&appid=52&showworking=true)says (and thats after telling it you have a licence) that you need to pay if you have a JAR licence, and you have to pay an additional £20 if you have an EASA licence.

Also the flow chart (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/FCL%20-%20Fee%20Calculator%20Flowchart.pdf) only mentions an exemption for initial issue of the licence.

Clear as mud, as always. Always happy to be corrected- thanks wb9999..

[wb9999]

Nothing with the CAA is clear, and the pricing is too complicated. I recently renewed an expired SEP rating (expired more than 5 years), replaced my JAR PPL with an EASA PPL and renewed my expired FRTOL. I had no idea how much I was going to cost me. I was expecting £73. I wasn't expecting to be charged for th SEP renewal, but at least the FRTOL was free.

[Maoraigh1]

I've got £65 for convertion of a CAA lifetime to an EASA, not allowing Annex 2, but £65 + £35 if I need to fly Annex2. Or is this only if the Annex2 required a type rating?

[Whopity]

You can fly Annex II on the EASA licence so no need to pay £35. In any case as you have stated you already have a lifetime UK licence so why would you need another?

[robin]

Scary, isn't it that a simplification of the licencing system has turned out to be so complicated

[Shoestring Flyer]

UKPPL to EASA PPL=£65
The calculator then asks if you need to fly an Annexe 2 aircraft and says you need to tick Yes if you do and it then adds £35 to the total. That is the issue.
So obviously to fly both the total is £100.

I tried calling the CAA yesterday for clarification of the above and also the seemingly extra cost for conversion of the RT licence. Unfortunately all I got was a recorded message saying they are not taking any calls until the end of Novemebr due to their heavy workload and 25day turnround of licences!....

[robin]

The calculator is wrong - :ok:

[PA28181]

It is not rocket science.......................

UKppl lifetime to Easa ppl lifetime =£65 End of.

There is no charge to keep the licence you already have...........................

There is no charge for the F.R.T.O.L

There is no charge for the Night Rating etc, etc,

Stop guessing and go and do it........................

PS: I did it.

[Whopity]

The EASA Principles make it look more ridiculous:
(b) to facilitate the free movement of goods, persons and
services;
(c) to promote cost-efficiency in the regulatory and certification
processes and to avoid duplication at national and
European level;
(d) to assist Member States in fulfilling their obligations under
the Chicago Convention, by providing a basis for a
common interpretation and uniform implementation of
its provisions, and by ensuring that its provisions are duly
taken into account in this Regulation and in the rules drawn
up for its implementation;
(e) to promote Community views regarding civil aviation
safety standards and rules throughout the world by
establishing appropriate cooperation with third countries
and international organisations;
(f) to provide a level playing field for all actors in the internal
aviation market.

3. The means of achieving the objectives set out in paragraphs 1
and 2 shall be:
(a) the preparation, adoption and uniform application of all
necessary acts;
(b) the recognition, without additional requirements, of
certificates, licences, approvals or other documents granted
to products, personnel and organisations in accordance
with this Regulation and its implementing rules;


Where did it all go Wrong?

[robin]

The lawyers and 'crats' got involved....:ugh:

[Shoestring Flyer]

'The calculator is wrong - http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif'

Well assuming the CAA's charge calculator is wrong what chance do we stand of them getting the rest of the changeover process right?

[robin]

The CAA are stating they are proud to be early adopters. Most other NAAs are delaying to the maximum.

Consequently they are bound to screw up legislation as they haven't had time to fully digest the implications

Look, for example, about the new requirement to email the CAA naming the examiner and not being permitted to take a skills test without confirmation from the CAA. This one is dated one month AFTER the 17th Sept changeover.

They are looking to see how to implement this, but shirley, they would have been better waiting to go through the requirements to see how the French dealt with it.

[Maoraigh1]

PS: I did it
Pa28181 - is your new licence number the same as your old one? It would be great for those of us with dependant US licences if it was.

[Whopity]

The licence number is tied to your personal reference number which will remain the same.

[PA28181]

Maoraigh1.

Yes, as already said the licence (CAA Reference Number) is the same, but with "GBR" tagged on the front, shouldn't be a prob with the FAA but you never know....

[robin500]

Hi once i have sent my new ppl licience off how long will it take to come back as my licience please , thanyou