Balloon encounter: to airprox or not to airprox?

[NorthSouth]

Last Friday I was at 5500 feet over Cumbria when a black spot appeared in our 11.45, slightly above our level. I stared at it to work out whether it was a threat and realised fairly quickly that it wasn't an aircraft. As it went down our left hand side I could see it was a funfair helium balloon, with address label dangling from it. I mentioned it to Scottish Info but haven't reported it as an Airprox.

I'd be interested to hear what others think. Should I have reported it? There are quite a few balloon sighting reports in the airproxes. My view is it was just a sighting report, although if it HAD been an aircraft I would definitely have reported it because miss distance (assuming my assumptions about balloon size are correct) was about 50ft vertical and 100m horizontal.

NS

[Bigears]

Airprox definition:
An Airprox is a situation in which, in the opinion of a pilot or a controller, the distance between aircraft as well as their relative positions and speed have been such that the safety of the aircraft involved was or may have been compromised.

Personally, I don't believe that a helium balloon counts as an 'aircraft' and the worst that could have happened is you bursting its bubble (sorry for poor quality joke) :E

[ShyTorque]

As it was a balloon, it was up to you to avoid it. You obviously did that, so no breach of the ANO was involved. If I were you, I'd just put this one down to experience to avoid things getting blown up out of all proportion. ;)

[thing]

I was night flying last winter and flew past one of those Chinese lanterns at about 1,000' in the cct. Now that was confusing...

[hobbit1983]

I would apply the unofficial criteria for an airprox; did you duck?

[peterh337]

I saw a pretty big (maybe 2-3m across) inflatable object a couple of years ago, floating around at a few thousand feet. I think it was a funny shape baloon.

[jxc]

Do a steep 180 turn and see if you can clip it with your wings I never seem able to get it but keeps me amused

[Halfbaked_Boy]

jxc, will never work, it just keeps getting deflected at the last minute by the upwash!

I'm always tempted after a few goes to just fly straight at it and pulverize it with the prop, but you never know where those rubber remnants are going to end up!

[mary meagher]

Now let me see: rules of the air. Power gives way to glider (better not count on it, though), and glider gives way to balloon.....

Actual rule of the air, if it is bigger and heavier than you it has the right of way.

However, several times I have been seriously tempted to fly my glider - in a friendly, non-threatening way, around a hot-air balloon. With a friendly wave to the passengers....

[fisbangwollop]

Just be thankfull it didnt have a metoffice radio sonde attatched to it!:cool:

[NazgulAir]

Years ago, when I was flying a Rollason Condor near Biggin Hill, I heard a panicked voice on the frequency: "I see a pink pig. A PINK PIG!!" He thought he was hallucinating. A very calm controller talked him into flying away from it and concentrating on getting back to the field and landing. The poor chap sounded quite shaken.
Later we heard that a balloon in the shape of a pig, tethered at the Virgin building, had escaped its moorings.

[FullWings]

Try flying into some South American airports on saint's days and festivals. You get ten foot, petrol-powered Virgin Marys and scale models of cathedrals (sometimes on fire) floating past you on the ILS...

I wouldn't be at all worried about a toy balloon - I normally try and hit them! More difficult than it looks... ;)

[yawningdog]

Once when flying over Beaulieu disused airfield circa 1,000ft I spotted a large RC model aircraft off my startboard side level with me. I thought they are restricted to 400ft. Hit one of those and they could cause some damage.

[Rocket2]

"With a friendly wave to the passengers...." Reminds me of many years ago when an (ex) RAF mate was flying his motor-glider round a balloon at a fair distance while waving with 2 fingers. Much merriment on the squadron ensued as he was called into the Staishes office the next day for a no tea & biscuits, hats on interview, seems one of the pax was an RAF gold braider :eek:

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Going towards Old Sarum earlier this year I seemed to be catching up with a ‘Cessna’ quite quickly. This was odd, because you don’t catch up with anything quickly in a Rans…

On fleeting inspection it turned out to be a model aircraft. I’m not sure if it was free flight or an out of range RC model. Being at around 1,400’ it would have been quite difficult to control from the ground anyway.

Perhaps someone with RC Model experience could comment on what happens if a model looses radio contact. Maintains last control / engine settings? Dead man’s hand shut down?

Safe Flying,
Richard W.

[Denti]

Depends on the control system and the settings. And then there are those newfangled immersion flying things which basically RC planes with cameras where the operator on the ground uses some virtual reality goggles to fly the plane out of the perspective of the pilot, more or less so. Quite a large range too if done correctly.

[BackPacker]

Just out of curiosity I looked up the rules regarding helium-filled balloons. This is the page describing the Dutch rules (courtesy of LVNL, the Dutch NATS). I would assume other countries have more or less the same rules.

Special activities - OPS help desk LVNL (http://www.lvnl-ohd.nl/content/framesets/en_frameset_bijz_gebeurtenissen.html) (Click on "toy balloons")

So you only need to report your activity and/or seek permission if you are launching more than a 1000 at the same time, in the vicinity of an aerodrome.

So filing an airprox for a single balloon - I don't think anybody is going to act upon it as there's realistically nothing that anybody can do about it.

[Ballywalter Flyer]

Years ago (early 90's) flying circuits on a calm day, on climbout I passed a helium filled 'Mr Blobby' balloon.:confused:
Each subsequent circuit I passed Mr Blobby in the same position - passing 500' AGL passing the left wingtip.
That was until I put out a radio call, whereby another local aircraft 'propped' it first go. Not bad considring that Mr Blobby was only about 2' tall, so you could only see him from close range.

[thing]

Once when flying over Beaulieu disused airfield circa 1,000ft I spotted a large RC model aircraft off my startboard side level with me. I thought they are restricted to 400ft. Hit one of those and they could cause some damage.

I flew into Elvington a couple of weeks ago where they regularly fly those big jet powered r/c models. When you gett PPR the modellers are supposed to be told when you are coming in and leave a gap. There had obviously been a communication breakdown as one zoom climbed just past my nose at about 150mph, and they are big things. Not impressed.

[cockney steve]

Modern R/C equipment is , under normal circumstances,"line of sight"...that is to say.if there's no obstruction between Tx and Rx, they'll communicate.
As Denti pointed out, with the advance in wireless cameras, the ground operator no longer needs to see the speck in the sky.
plenty of large-scale models about but over a certain size, they're subject to CAA regulation.

For those with time to kill, there are many clips on youtube of magnificent models, some big enough to carry a small human!

Yes they can (and do ) kill.

[piperarcher]

Just be thankfull it didnt have a metoffice radio sonde attatched to it!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif

Are these things a danger? Cambridge NOTAMS (whenever I look at them) always have something saying they are releasing a Radio Sonde balloon. Luckily I have never encountered one on my travels, but I am guessing I wouldnt want to chew one up in my prop I was unlucky enough to encounter one.

[david viewing]

Some of the Chinese lanterns have wires in them that you might not want wrapped around your spinner.

I believe that large model aircraft (over 15 lbs or something) are required to have a fail safe that closes the throttle on loss of contact. In practice many if not all the modern 2.4ghz radios have an inherant loss of signal mode linked to the throttle channel.

[peterh337]

Weather baloons are launched at a number of locations in the UK, and around the world, at 0000Z and 1200Z, usually.

I do wonder how they avoid hitting aircraft with them. They are small but not that small, and the payload is probably ~1kg which would go through the windscreen nicely at 150kt.

[FullWings]

I've wondered that too, especially as I'm doing nearly 500kts most of the time. I think they are about a 250g package, which still packs a significant punch at that speed, probably twice that of a military rifle bullet...

Never heard of anyone hitting one, big sky and all that I suppose?

[C-dog]

Seem to remember at air rallies. along with spot landings and flour bombing, there was also balloon bursting. You told the ground by radio when to release the balloon then went after it, aiming to burst it with your prop. :ok:

[funfly]

Has anyone come across one of these unmanned thingies that the military fly, there seem to be a lot around these days.

[mary meagher]

Going back to the previous posts referring to surprising encounters with models.....(lets not have any misunderstandings here what sort of models)....
they fly a lot of models off the Edgehill ridge at Sunrising hill (which ought to be called Sunsetting IMHO).

We do a lot of gliding by winch and aerotow at Shenington, weather permitting. I was pulling up a K13 glider, my friend Jane was P1 in the glider with a trial lesson in the front; I was flying a 150 Supercub with climb prop; rather good performance. Nevertheless it always pays when towing a glider to use what rising air is available to enhance the climb. So I turned right to fly along the hill, by now at about 400 feet.

Noticed a glider soaring the hill, standard class type (15 meter wingspan) a fair distance down the hill, coming my way. WAIT A MINUTE! THAT IS NOT A GLIDER, ITS A FLIPPIN MODEL! And it was quite near us, heading directly at us, so I took immediate evasive action, turning hard left. Jane wondered why on earth did the tug swerve so abruptly, but she hung on. Meanwhile, the pilot of the model, who was of course standing on the hill watching me heading for his pride and joy with a combination, suffered considerable anguish. As was made manifest because he didn't know WHAT to do, the model was all over the place. Fortunately the rest of our flight was uneventful, and back on the ground later, Jane said she never saw the model at all. Usually they stay down at a sensible height above the terraine, the pilots don't like to lose them. It's the hang gliders soaring the hill that you might encounter at any height on a good day.

[effortless]

I remember the pink pig, wasn't it something to do with Pink Floyd? We went looking for it but couldn't find it. I think it may even have been Notamed.

[Jay Doubleyou]

Not only was the pink pig not notam-ed, it even had a formal airmiss (before the name was changed to airprox) filed on it, and an AAIB report recorded! I remember seeing the report somewhere but I don't remember where or when, it was possibly mid 1970's.