Balloon encounter: to airprox or not to airprox?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 7
From: Sometimes north, sometimes south
Balloon encounter: to airprox or not to airprox?
Last Friday I was at 5500 feet over Cumbria when a black spot appeared in our 11.45, slightly above our level. I stared at it to work out whether it was a threat and realised fairly quickly that it wasn't an aircraft. As it went down our left hand side I could see it was a funfair helium balloon, with address label dangling from it. I mentioned it to Scottish Info but haven't reported it as an Airprox.
I'd be interested to hear what others think. Should I have reported it? There are quite a few balloon sighting reports in the airproxes. My view is it was just a sighting report, although if it HAD been an aircraft I would definitely have reported it because miss distance (assuming my assumptions about balloon size are correct) was about 50ft vertical and 100m horizontal.
NS
I'd be interested to hear what others think. Should I have reported it? There are quite a few balloon sighting reports in the airproxes. My view is it was just a sighting report, although if it HAD been an aircraft I would definitely have reported it because miss distance (assuming my assumptions about balloon size are correct) was about 50ft vertical and 100m horizontal.
NS
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
From: UK
Airprox definition:
An Airprox is a situation in which, in the opinion of a pilot or a controller, the distance between aircraft as well as their relative positions and speed have been such that the safety of the aircraft involved was or may have been compromised.
Personally, I don't believe that a helium balloon counts as an 'aircraft' and the worst that could have happened is you bursting its bubble (sorry for poor quality joke)
An Airprox is a situation in which, in the opinion of a pilot or a controller, the distance between aircraft as well as their relative positions and speed have been such that the safety of the aircraft involved was or may have been compromised.
Personally, I don't believe that a helium balloon counts as an 'aircraft' and the worst that could have happened is you bursting its bubble (sorry for poor quality joke)
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,114
Likes: 1,088
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
As it was a balloon, it was up to you to avoid it. You obviously did that, so no breach of the ANO was involved. If I were you, I'd just put this one down to experience to avoid things getting blown up out of all proportion. 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
From: Northampton
jxc, will never work, it just keeps getting deflected at the last minute by the upwash!
I'm always tempted after a few goes to just fly straight at it and pulverize it with the prop, but you never know where those rubber remnants are going to end up!
I'm always tempted after a few goes to just fly straight at it and pulverize it with the prop, but you never know where those rubber remnants are going to end up!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
Now let me see: rules of the air. Power gives way to glider (better not count on it, though), and glider gives way to balloon.....
Actual rule of the air, if it is bigger and heavier than you it has the right of way.
However, several times I have been seriously tempted to fly my glider - in a friendly, non-threatening way, around a hot-air balloon. With a friendly wave to the passengers....
Actual rule of the air, if it is bigger and heavier than you it has the right of way.
However, several times I have been seriously tempted to fly my glider - in a friendly, non-threatening way, around a hot-air balloon. With a friendly wave to the passengers....
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Years ago, when I was flying a Rollason Condor near Biggin Hill, I heard a panicked voice on the frequency: "I see a pink pig. A PINK PIG!!" He thought he was hallucinating. A very calm controller talked him into flying away from it and concentrating on getting back to the field and landing. The poor chap sounded quite shaken.
Later we heard that a balloon in the shape of a pig, tethered at the Virgin building, had escaped its moorings.
Later we heard that a balloon in the shape of a pig, tethered at the Virgin building, had escaped its moorings.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 839
From: Tring, UK
Try flying into some South American airports on saint's days and festivals. You get ten foot, petrol-powered Virgin Marys and scale models of cathedrals (sometimes on fire) floating past you on the ILS...
I wouldn't be at all worried about a toy balloon - I normally try and hit them! More difficult than it looks...
I wouldn't be at all worried about a toy balloon - I normally try and hit them! More difficult than it looks...
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Lymington
Once when flying over Beaulieu disused airfield circa 1,000ft I spotted a large RC model aircraft off my startboard side level with me. I thought they are restricted to 400ft. Hit one of those and they could cause some damage.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
From: Wessex
"With a friendly wave to the passengers...." Reminds me of many years ago when an (ex) RAF mate was flying his motor-glider round a balloon at a fair distance while waving with 2 fingers. Much merriment on the squadron ensued as he was called into the Staishes office the next day for a no tea & biscuits, hats on interview, seems one of the pax was an RAF gold braider 
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
From: 7nm N of LARCK
Mystery ‘Cessna’
Going towards Old Sarum earlier this year I seemed to be catching up with a ‘Cessna’ quite quickly. This was odd, because you don’t catch up with anything quickly in a Rans…
On fleeting inspection it turned out to be a model aircraft. I’m not sure if it was free flight or an out of range RC model. Being at around 1,400’ it would have been quite difficult to control from the ground anyway.
Perhaps someone with RC Model experience could comment on what happens if a model looses radio contact. Maintains last control / engine settings? Dead man’s hand shut down?
Safe Flying,
Richard W.
On fleeting inspection it turned out to be a model aircraft. I’m not sure if it was free flight or an out of range RC model. Being at around 1,400’ it would have been quite difficult to control from the ground anyway.
Perhaps someone with RC Model experience could comment on what happens if a model looses radio contact. Maintains last control / engine settings? Dead man’s hand shut down?
Safe Flying,
Richard W.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 35
From: I wouldn't know.
Depends on the control system and the settings. And then there are those newfangled immersion flying things which basically RC planes with cameras where the operator on the ground uses some virtual reality goggles to fly the plane out of the perspective of the pilot, more or less so. Quite a large range too if done correctly.
Last edited by Denti; 31st July 2012 at 10:08.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
Just out of curiosity I looked up the rules regarding helium-filled balloons. This is the page describing the Dutch rules (courtesy of LVNL, the Dutch NATS). I would assume other countries have more or less the same rules.
Special activities - OPS help desk LVNL (Click on "toy balloons")
So you only need to report your activity and/or seek permission if you are launching more than a 1000 at the same time, in the vicinity of an aerodrome.
So filing an airprox for a single balloon - I don't think anybody is going to act upon it as there's realistically nothing that anybody can do about it.
Special activities - OPS help desk LVNL (Click on "toy balloons")
So you only need to report your activity and/or seek permission if you are launching more than a 1000 at the same time, in the vicinity of an aerodrome.
So filing an airprox for a single balloon - I don't think anybody is going to act upon it as there's realistically nothing that anybody can do about it.
Last edited by BackPacker; 31st July 2012 at 10:18.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Ballywalter
Years ago (early 90's) flying circuits on a calm day, on climbout I passed a helium filled 'Mr Blobby' balloon.
Each subsequent circuit I passed Mr Blobby in the same position - passing 500' AGL passing the left wingtip.
That was until I put out a radio call, whereby another local aircraft 'propped' it first go. Not bad considring that Mr Blobby was only about 2' tall, so you could only see him from close range.
Each subsequent circuit I passed Mr Blobby in the same position - passing 500' AGL passing the left wingtip.
That was until I put out a radio call, whereby another local aircraft 'propped' it first go. Not bad considring that Mr Blobby was only about 2' tall, so you could only see him from close range.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,113
Likes: 2
From: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Once when flying over Beaulieu disused airfield circa 1,000ft I spotted a large RC model aircraft off my startboard side level with me. I thought they are restricted to 400ft. Hit one of those and they could cause some damage.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 0
From: lancs.UK
Modern R/C equipment is , under normal circumstances,"line of sight"...that is to say.if there's no obstruction between Tx and Rx, they'll communicate.
As Denti pointed out, with the advance in wireless cameras, the ground operator no longer needs to see the speck in the sky.
plenty of large-scale models about but over a certain size, they're subject to CAA regulation.
For those with time to kill, there are many clips on youtube of magnificent models, some big enough to carry a small human!
Yes they can (and do ) kill.
As Denti pointed out, with the advance in wireless cameras, the ground operator no longer needs to see the speck in the sky.
plenty of large-scale models about but over a certain size, they're subject to CAA regulation.
For those with time to kill, there are many clips on youtube of magnificent models, some big enough to carry a small human!
Yes they can (and do ) kill.