Light aircraft @ EGLL

[philltowns]

Would they ever allow light aircraft to land at Heathrow. If so, how muh would it cost :eek:, and what would be the procedure to organise it?

:D

[regor]

You need to own a landing slot, be a V.V.I.P., or declare an emergency to be able to land at Heathrow.

With the constant stream of heavy jets, there is also the issue of wake vortex seperation. This makes it impractical for light A/C to use, especially when Heathrow is reputed to be the world's busiest airport!

Try Blackbushe airport instead!!:D

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Wake vortex is not an issue in this discussion.. otherwise why do we get so many biz jets flying in and out of Heathrow which fall in the same vortex category as small Cessnas, etc. The real issues would be cost and trying to convince the airport authority of a good enough reason to permit your flight. Contact them and seek their view on available slots - and do let us know the response. From an ATC point of view it would be a total doddle - SVFR in good weather.... radar vectoring to a suitable point close in to the airfield then a quick visual dive in.. Around midday-early afternoon or Saturday evenings we're usually sitting around doing very little and the odd light a/c could easily be accommodated..... but the airport bosses may not agree.

[FlyingForFun]

I seem to recall reading in Pooley's that EGLL don't accept any single-engined or light twin-engined aircraft. :( (Don't know how they define "light" though.)

And I'd hate to think of the cost :eek:

But it would great to have it in the log-book!

FFF
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[Gaza]

Couple of issues in landing at EGLL. Class A airspace and landing fees! I once read that BAA would charge around £300 for landing plus around £50 for every 15 minutes on the ground. My (out of date) Pooleys also says " Light single and twin engined aircraft will not be permitted to us ehte airport".

The full text:-

Availability

H24 provided that prior permission and a clearance number is obtained fronm the MD, HAL.

Operators of Gen and Biz aviation aircraft mayu only operate in the peak during any operating season if they obtain permission from the airport operator as well as a slot in advance of each movement also from the airport operator. In practise, permission to operate in the peak will be deemed to have been granted under the terms of the Traffic Distribution Rules, if a slot for each movement in the peak is granted. Operators who operate at any time may operate the movement provided that the aircraft departs or arrives as the case may be within 30 minutes or after the time of the slot.

[englishal]

Of course you could always go to the US and land at LAX for free.......or some other large airport.

[Trinity 09L]

How much for a touch & go, and can I use 09L please:rolleyes:

[FlyingForFun]

Exactly, EnglishAl. If you pick the airport correctly, you can even share the circuit (sorry, pattern) with exciting things like F16s! :D

FFF
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[GoneWest]

The first time I ever went into LHR was in a Piper Arrow,

We had to have a handling agent (we selected British Airways) who arranged all the paperwork and gave us one of their landing slots.

Handling agent fees came to around £50 and the landing fee (outside peak period) was around £98. I believe the peak period fees would have been about £300.

ATC kept us at 6,000 downwind - asked for 180 knots to the outer marker (didn't get it). We advised them that if we could "land long" we could keep the speed up. We stayed "clean" and flew, with power on, to the threshold in a dive that gave us about 140 knots - flared over the numbers, floated along the runway and selected gear down at Vle. Worked a treat.

ATC were brilliant - ground movements controller really helpful...and ground movement was the hardest part (tricky taxiiways for a fairly inexperienced PPL).

I'm told, now, that single engine aircraft are banned from use of LHR due to rule 5. If you had an engine failure on approach to the westerly runways, you could not glide clear of the built up areas.

Been back many times since - in commercial aircraft...but always remember that first visit.

Gatwick, of course, will let you in even now!! Just as much fun - and just as much money!!

[Unwell_Raptor]

I seem to remember someone stealing a Chipmunk a few years ago, and leaving it on the grass at the Western end of 09L/27R .

Don't recall him getting caught either.

[M.Mouse]

GoneWest

I thought an aircraft taking off or landing was specifically absolved from Rule 5.

[ETOPS]

Many years ago I flew a Grumman AA-5 Cheetah into EGLL at the dead of night. It was the 1st of June 1979 and I needed a 300 nm night cross country as part of the CPL qualifying requirements. We just filed a flight plan and went - it took 1hr 35" and we arrived just after midnight. ATC could not have been more helpful. Only glitch was we had forgotten to book refuelling so had to route home via EGBB - eventually home by 0330L and I've got the photo's to prove it.

[paulo]

Gone West - v.funny... "We're pedalling as fast we can!"

[GoneWest]

Mouse...me thinks that aircraft taking off and landing (in accordance with normal aviation procedures [may not count with a deliberate low approach/go around]) are exempt the part about being 500' above highest obstacle and/or 1000' above above a crowd etc etc - but are not absolved from the "glide clear in the event of a power failure" part.

Not that they would want to be...of course.

[spancan]

Light A/C have landed at LHR many times. The BA flying club at White Waltham got some of their planes flown in and out for the BA paint jobs. Non of the pilots were very experienced.

[FL245]

You need to own a landing slot, be a V.V.I.P., or declare an emergency to be able to land at Heathrow.

Rubbish old boy, as HEATHROW DIRECTOR says its not a problem.

I have been there many times in the Cessna 310, single crew, both in the dead of night and during the day.

I have sometimes been stuck trying to get out in busy times of the day, getting a runway slot can be a long process, but HEATHROW DIRECTOR and the boys normally squeeze you in, stick you on a radar heading and pass you on to london.

The landing and handling fees are in line with any other large airports, but not as much as I paid in SOU one night.....£1500!! for 20 mins on the ground


FL245

[InFinRetirement]

Out of pure interest - or not as the case may be.

In March 1972 BAA announced that there would be no further GA aircraft allowed to land at LHR after the end of the month.

So, on 29th March, as the landing fees for GA at LHR were around 40p! Yep, that's right, I grabbed a friend and called LHR and got the OK to go in there from Biggin - in an R.F.5 (G-AYZX). I was held over the Kingston by-pass for a few minutes and then given vectors to approach. I kept my speed up - all of 120kts! - and put gear down about 1'2 mile out - on 28R then - and landed in what appeared to be about 30 feet due to the perspective of 10,000 runway ahead. There were a few anxious moments in the Tower I heard from the FollowMe guy, because they couldn't see the ONE main wheel and two outriggers that the RF5 has. Wondering if I was going to land wheels up!

It was a flight lasting 35 minutes. At 1700 I was airborne again back to Biggin in 30 minutes but not without a small incident when an Air France Caravelle blew my starboard wing hard into the ground, which, fortunately, didn't break the outrigger.

Sorry! Just had to get the memory out of my logbook, and thought I might as well mention it.

[Wycombe]

Spamcan,

I believe you mean the BA Flying Club at Wycombe.

Last time the PA28/38's visited for painting (a couple of years ago when they acquired the tasteful tails), I believe they were sneaked in from Wycombe during the small hours.

Once saw a TB10 land at LHR during the middle of a day, in the middle of a very heavy SN shower (so presumably a WX div).

There used to be a bit of a tradition (don't think this still happens) for the residents of White Waltham to fly approaches at LHR on Xmas Day.

[Fright Level]

I thought there was a Christmas Day package where you could land there for £100 or so. I'm sure the BAFC at Booker will know more.

[Pilot Pete]

Ah FL245 beat me to it again!

Fun days..........................4 pax from Islay to EGLL, total cost of charter £2400 for the priviledge! Landing fees circa £700, funny enough I think they called it a 'take off fee' or 'departure fee', strange. Have to be careful though on the fuel planning as they don't stock Avgas! I remember planning to position out to Luton for gas and had to wait six hours for a slot!

As Heathrow Director says it's not a problem for them, BUT, it does help if you don't assume that they'll know you can't maintain 160kts to 4dme and you'll touchdown at about 90kts! Lesson learnt first time in.

I also recall doing transplant flights in the 310 both daytime and night-time when they would always accept you, I even got a runway change at 8 am to save time on the taxying! They were landing 09L and the corporate handling agent was beside the threshold of 27L, I asked London control 60nm out to request it and then spent several minutes getting closer and closer not knowing which one I was going to get.............hey presto 27L; got a few of the big boys worried wondering what they had just heard on the RT! Can't speak highly enough of the controllers down there, excellent, the way they can just integrate a tiddler into the 'heavy' picture like they were doing it all day!

Oh FL245, remember the dual radio failure just as we locked onto 27L that day? :D

Bloody good fun landing there if you ask for permission to land long.............just float and float and float and then think it's looking a little short so put it on only to find you've still got a couple of thousand feet left!

Departure was funny too. Sitting at the hold in a 310, number three behind two speedbird 747's and with a 777 behind me! Remember being told to 'line up and wait 09L' then the 777 was told 'After the Cessna 310, line up and wait 09L', his reply was 'After the ermmm...........propellor airplane in front (and below!!!) line up and wait 09L'!!!!

Ah, memories.

PP

[southern duel]

Just to clear this forum up once and for all.
The UK AIP amnd MATS part 2 state.

All light twin and single private aircraft (including military) will not be permitted to fly into Heathrow.

Ambulance and transplant flights are exempt.

It also says permission will be refused for Reacreational, charity and record breaking flights.

If you do wish to fly in prior permission must be obtained from the MD of HAL or in his absence the Ops management team. A slot will also be required from Airport Co Ordination Ltd.

So all you gys wanting to fly in just to get LHR in your log book i wouldnt bother asking because it will be NO.

Just think 400 pax on a B747 would spend a darn sight more money in our shops then a single pilot in a 2 stroke cessna.

ive got to look after my shares you know.


Happy flying elsewhere

:)

[Pilot Pete]

Southern Duel

I take it you mean private flights, ie non public transport because I can asure that I have flown in there in a 'two stroke Cessna' with 399 passengers less than your 747 and with the permission of the airport authority........and he never spent a penny in any of your shops!

Keep smiling,

PP

ps come and visit Manchester, the locals are a lot more friendly!

[mrzippo]

Like Fl245 & P Pete, also been there many times in light twin on medevac flights.
Think the cost is about £350-£500 depending on whether peak time or not.
Bit of a buzz first time, EGll in logbook etc etc, now just a pleasure owing to the slickness and professionalism of ATC, they make it easy and are appreciative of the fact that you are usually single crew et al.
Much easier than many less busy airports who think they are busier.
Never had to go around or anyone behind me. (again due ATC)
Funny one Sunday morning, given priority to line up ahead of several 747's.
BA 747 told to line up after the departing Seneca.
'Line up after the WHAT?' was reply.
ATC: 'If you look left and down, theres a light twin prop, give way and line up after, ...you're obviously not a self improver!'
Had to giggle!
Anyways, hope this helps original Q...think you have to prove necessity to be there too...such as medical/organ transfer etc.


Regards
:)

[Pilot Pete]

Not quite Mr zippo,

I think you missed the fact that we have been in there on non-air ambulance flights with fee paying pax, no justification required, just get permission, pay the fees and follow the rules. I think the point that clears it up is that 'private' flights will not be accepted but public transport flights in piston twins will be (if you can get a slot!)

As for ambulance flights I always found them very accommodating, even during peak hours they would somehow find a way to squeeze us in.....fantastic. Used to get the spotters all excited as I recall; at one point an ops landrover came hurtling out '4-up' trying to find out where 'Papa-Zulu' was, poor spotters didn't realize we'd changed aircraft before departure due to a technical problem and thought they'd missed PZ on her inaugural EGLL flight!!:D :D

PP

[FL245]

Pete

Remember the bird in the handling agent at LHR. She pulled up beside the Cessna 310 and looked surprised, she told us that she thought we were in a Citation Jet, not a piston twin !!

Catch up soon old chap, I am working my socks off at the moment ! Hope the new addition is well.

Fl245