Light aircraft @ EGLL
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: London, England
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Light aircraft @ EGLL
Would they ever allow light aircraft to land at Heathrow. If so, how muh would it cost 
, and what would be the procedure to organise it?
, and what would be the procedure to organise it?
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You need to own a landing slot, be a V.V.I.P., or declare an emergency to be able to land at Heathrow.
With the constant stream of heavy jets, there is also the issue of wake vortex seperation. This makes it impractical for light A/C to use, especially when Heathrow is reputed to be the world's busiest airport!
Try Blackbushe airport instead!!
With the constant stream of heavy jets, there is also the issue of wake vortex seperation. This makes it impractical for light A/C to use, especially when Heathrow is reputed to be the world's busiest airport!
Try Blackbushe airport instead!!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wake vortex is not an issue in this discussion.. otherwise why do we get so many biz jets flying in and out of Heathrow which fall in the same vortex category as small Cessnas, etc. The real issues would be cost and trying to convince the airport authority of a good enough reason to permit your flight. Contact them and seek their view on available slots - and do let us know the response. From an ATC point of view it would be a total doddle - SVFR in good weather.... radar vectoring to a suitable point close in to the airfield then a quick visual dive in.. Around midday-early afternoon or Saturday evenings we're usually sitting around doing very little and the odd light a/c could easily be accommodated..... but the airport bosses may not agree.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 4,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I seem to recall reading in Pooley's that EGLL don't accept any single-engined or light twin-engined aircraft. 
(Don't know how they define "light" though.)
And I'd hate to think of the cost
But it would great to have it in the log-book!
FFF
----------
(Don't know how they define "light" though.)And I'd hate to think of the cost
But it would great to have it in the log-book!
FFF
----------
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: At the foot of the Lammermuirs
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Couple of issues in landing at EGLL. Class A airspace and landing fees! I once read that BAA would charge around £300 for landing plus around £50 for every 15 minutes on the ground. My (out of date) Pooleys also says " Light single and twin engined aircraft will not be permitted to us ehte airport".
The full text:-
Availability
H24 provided that prior permission and a clearance number is obtained fronm the MD, HAL.
Operators of Gen and Biz aviation aircraft mayu only operate in the peak during any operating season if they obtain permission from the airport operator as well as a slot in advance of each movement also from the airport operator. In practise, permission to operate in the peak will be deemed to have been granted under the terms of the Traffic Distribution Rules, if a slot for each movement in the peak is granted. Operators who operate at any time may operate the movement provided that the aircraft departs or arrives as the case may be within 30 minutes or after the time of the slot.
The full text:-
Availability
H24 provided that prior permission and a clearance number is obtained fronm the MD, HAL.
Operators of Gen and Biz aviation aircraft mayu only operate in the peak during any operating season if they obtain permission from the airport operator as well as a slot in advance of each movement also from the airport operator. In practise, permission to operate in the peak will be deemed to have been granted under the terms of the Traffic Distribution Rules, if a slot for each movement in the peak is granted. Operators who operate at any time may operate the movement provided that the aircraft departs or arrives as the case may be within 30 minutes or after the time of the slot.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 4,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly, EnglishAl. If you pick the airport correctly, you can even share the circuit (sorry, pattern) with exciting things like F16s!
FFF
-----------
FFF
-----------
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The first time I ever went into LHR was in a Piper Arrow,
We had to have a handling agent (we selected British Airways) who arranged all the paperwork and gave us one of their landing slots.
Handling agent fees came to around £50 and the landing fee (outside peak period) was around £98. I believe the peak period fees would have been about £300.
ATC kept us at 6,000 downwind - asked for 180 knots to the outer marker (didn't get it). We advised them that if we could "land long" we could keep the speed up. We stayed "clean" and flew, with power on, to the threshold in a dive that gave us about 140 knots - flared over the numbers, floated along the runway and selected gear down at Vle. Worked a treat.
ATC were brilliant - ground movements controller really helpful...and ground movement was the hardest part (tricky taxiiways for a fairly inexperienced PPL).
I'm told, now, that single engine aircraft are banned from use of LHR due to rule 5. If you had an engine failure on approach to the westerly runways, you could not glide clear of the built up areas.
Been back many times since - in commercial aircraft...but always remember that first visit.
Gatwick, of course, will let you in even now!! Just as much fun - and just as much money!!
We had to have a handling agent (we selected British Airways) who arranged all the paperwork and gave us one of their landing slots.
Handling agent fees came to around £50 and the landing fee (outside peak period) was around £98. I believe the peak period fees would have been about £300.
ATC kept us at 6,000 downwind - asked for 180 knots to the outer marker (didn't get it). We advised them that if we could "land long" we could keep the speed up. We stayed "clean" and flew, with power on, to the threshold in a dive that gave us about 140 knots - flared over the numbers, floated along the runway and selected gear down at Vle. Worked a treat.
ATC were brilliant - ground movements controller really helpful...and ground movement was the hardest part (tricky taxiiways for a fairly inexperienced PPL).
I'm told, now, that single engine aircraft are banned from use of LHR due to rule 5. If you had an engine failure on approach to the westerly runways, you could not glide clear of the built up areas.
Been back many times since - in commercial aircraft...but always remember that first visit.
Gatwick, of course, will let you in even now!! Just as much fun - and just as much money!!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Valley Where the Thames Runs Softly
Age: 77
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I seem to remember someone stealing a Chipmunk a few years ago, and leaving it on the grass at the Western end of 09L/27R .
Don't recall him getting caught either.
Don't recall him getting caught either.
Many years ago I flew a Grumman AA-5 Cheetah into EGLL at the dead of night. It was the 1st of June 1979 and I needed a 300 nm night cross country as part of the CPL qualifying requirements. We just filed a flight plan and went - it took 1hr 35" and we arrived just after midnight. ATC could not have been more helpful. Only glitch was we had forgotten to book refuelling so had to route home via EGBB - eventually home by 0330L and I've got the photo's to prove it.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mouse...me thinks that aircraft taking off and landing (in accordance with normal aviation procedures [may not count with a deliberate low approach/go around]) are exempt the part about being 500' above highest obstacle and/or 1000' above above a crowd etc etc - but are not absolved from the "glide clear in the event of a power failure" part.
Not that they would want to be...of course.
Not that they would want to be...of course.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: glasgow
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Light A/C have landed at LHR many times. The BA flying club at White Waltham got some of their planes flown in and out for the BA paint jobs. Non of the pilots were very experienced.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Asia
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You need to own a landing slot, be a V.V.I.P., or declare an emergency to be able to land at Heathrow.
I have been there many times in the Cessna 310, single crew, both in the dead of night and during the day.
I have sometimes been stuck trying to get out in busy times of the day, getting a runway slot can be a long process, but HEATHROW DIRECTOR and the boys normally squeeze you in, stick you on a radar heading and pass you on to london.
The landing and handling fees are in line with any other large airports, but not as much as I paid in SOU one night.....£1500!! for 20 mins on the ground
FL245
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: 18m N of LGW
Posts: 945
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Out of pure interest - or not as the case may be.
In March 1972 BAA announced that there would be no further GA aircraft allowed to land at LHR after the end of the month.
So, on 29th March, as the landing fees for GA at LHR were around 40p! Yep, that's right, I grabbed a friend and called LHR and got the OK to go in there from Biggin - in an R.F.5 (G-AYZX). I was held over the Kingston by-pass for a few minutes and then given vectors to approach. I kept my speed up - all of 120kts! - and put gear down about 1'2 mile out - on 28R then - and landed in what appeared to be about 30 feet due to the perspective of 10,000 runway ahead. There were a few anxious moments in the Tower I heard from the FollowMe guy, because they couldn't see the ONE main wheel and two outriggers that the RF5 has. Wondering if I was going to land wheels up!
It was a flight lasting 35 minutes. At 1700 I was airborne again back to Biggin in 30 minutes but not without a small incident when an Air France Caravelle blew my starboard wing hard into the ground, which, fortunately, didn't break the outrigger.
Sorry! Just had to get the memory out of my logbook, and thought I might as well mention it.
In March 1972 BAA announced that there would be no further GA aircraft allowed to land at LHR after the end of the month.
So, on 29th March, as the landing fees for GA at LHR were around 40p! Yep, that's right, I grabbed a friend and called LHR and got the OK to go in there from Biggin - in an R.F.5 (G-AYZX). I was held over the Kingston by-pass for a few minutes and then given vectors to approach. I kept my speed up - all of 120kts! - and put gear down about 1'2 mile out - on 28R then - and landed in what appeared to be about 30 feet due to the perspective of 10,000 runway ahead. There were a few anxious moments in the Tower I heard from the FollowMe guy, because they couldn't see the ONE main wheel and two outriggers that the RF5 has. Wondering if I was going to land wheels up!
It was a flight lasting 35 minutes. At 1700 I was airborne again back to Biggin in 30 minutes but not without a small incident when an Air France Caravelle blew my starboard wing hard into the ground, which, fortunately, didn't break the outrigger.
Sorry! Just had to get the memory out of my logbook, and thought I might as well mention it.
Spamcan,
I believe you mean the BA Flying Club at Wycombe.
Last time the PA28/38's visited for painting (a couple of years ago when they acquired the tasteful tails), I believe they were sneaked in from Wycombe during the small hours.
Once saw a TB10 land at LHR during the middle of a day, in the middle of a very heavy SN shower (so presumably a WX div).
There used to be a bit of a tradition (don't think this still happens) for the residents of White Waltham to fly approaches at LHR on Xmas Day.
I believe you mean the BA Flying Club at Wycombe.
Last time the PA28/38's visited for painting (a couple of years ago when they acquired the tasteful tails), I believe they were sneaked in from Wycombe during the small hours.
Once saw a TB10 land at LHR during the middle of a day, in the middle of a very heavy SN shower (so presumably a WX div).
There used to be a bit of a tradition (don't think this still happens) for the residents of White Waltham to fly approaches at LHR on Xmas Day.
Last edited by Wycombe; 4th Apr 2002 at 20:31.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah FL245 beat me to it again!
Fun days..........................4 pax from Islay to EGLL, total cost of charter £2400 for the priviledge! Landing fees circa £700, funny enough I think they called it a 'take off fee' or 'departure fee', strange. Have to be careful though on the fuel planning as they don't stock Avgas! I remember planning to position out to Luton for gas and had to wait six hours for a slot!
As Heathrow Director says it's not a problem for them, BUT, it does help if you don't assume that they'll know you can't maintain 160kts to 4dme and you'll touchdown at about 90kts! Lesson learnt first time in.
I also recall doing transplant flights in the 310 both daytime and night-time when they would always accept you, I even got a runway change at 8 am to save time on the taxying! They were landing 09L and the corporate handling agent was beside the threshold of 27L, I asked London control 60nm out to request it and then spent several minutes getting closer and closer not knowing which one I was going to get.............hey presto 27L; got a few of the big boys worried wondering what they had just heard on the RT! Can't speak highly enough of the controllers down there, excellent, the way they can just integrate a tiddler into the 'heavy' picture like they were doing it all day!
Oh FL245, remember the dual radio failure just as we locked onto 27L that day?
Bloody good fun landing there if you ask for permission to land long.............just float and float and float and then think it's looking a little short so put it on only to find you've still got a couple of thousand feet left!
Departure was funny too. Sitting at the hold in a 310, number three behind two speedbird 747's and with a 777 behind me! Remember being told to 'line up and wait 09L' then the 777 was told 'After the Cessna 310, line up and wait 09L', his reply was 'After the ermmm...........propellor airplane in front (and below!!!) line up and wait 09L'!!!!
Ah, memories.
PP
Fun days..........................4 pax from Islay to EGLL, total cost of charter £2400 for the priviledge! Landing fees circa £700, funny enough I think they called it a 'take off fee' or 'departure fee', strange. Have to be careful though on the fuel planning as they don't stock Avgas! I remember planning to position out to Luton for gas and had to wait six hours for a slot!
As Heathrow Director says it's not a problem for them, BUT, it does help if you don't assume that they'll know you can't maintain 160kts to 4dme and you'll touchdown at about 90kts! Lesson learnt first time in.
I also recall doing transplant flights in the 310 both daytime and night-time when they would always accept you, I even got a runway change at 8 am to save time on the taxying! They were landing 09L and the corporate handling agent was beside the threshold of 27L, I asked London control 60nm out to request it and then spent several minutes getting closer and closer not knowing which one I was going to get.............hey presto 27L; got a few of the big boys worried wondering what they had just heard on the RT! Can't speak highly enough of the controllers down there, excellent, the way they can just integrate a tiddler into the 'heavy' picture like they were doing it all day!
Oh FL245, remember the dual radio failure just as we locked onto 27L that day?
Bloody good fun landing there if you ask for permission to land long.............just float and float and float and then think it's looking a little short so put it on only to find you've still got a couple of thousand feet left!
Departure was funny too. Sitting at the hold in a 310, number three behind two speedbird 747's and with a 777 behind me! Remember being told to 'line up and wait 09L' then the 777 was told 'After the Cessna 310, line up and wait 09L', his reply was 'After the ermmm...........propellor airplane in front (and below!!!) line up and wait 09L'!!!!
Ah, memories.
PP
Last edited by Pilot Pete; 5th Apr 2002 at 20:30.