Cockpit cameras?

[Odai]

Hello,

I am making a return to flying next week after a (hugely) long break. I made the decision to film every last second I spend in the air from now, and am therefore looking for a decent video camera to use in the cockpit.

I have been unable to find any useful reviews of these things, I'm guessing this is because the market for them is so small to begin with. As a result, I thought I'd ask here for any feedback other members may have.

I'm looking for something designed to deal with the motion of propellers (ie, something with a lens/filter that makes propeller spin look naturally blurred). Also with the capability to record at least 720p video and can be hooked up to the aircraft's intercom.

I'd greatly appreciate any advice you may have!

Thanks

Odai.

[Bushfiva]

You need to avoid devices with rolling shutters. In practice, that means using something with a CMOS sensor rather than a CCD (and then testing before purchase). For the actual device, if small size is important you could check out sites that review helmet/handlebar cams and similar devices. Otherwise, there's a huge range of very small videocameras on the market now.

Edit for clarification: almost all, or maybe all, CCD devices use a rolling shutter. The majority of consumer-level CMOS devices also use a rolling shutter, but a large minority don't. You need to pick something from the "large minority" category.

Edit for correctness: as pointed out by Mark1234 further down, I'm generally correct apart from being exactly wrong :}. Swap all references to CCD and CMOS. Put it down to brainfarts.

[LowNSlow]

I've just bought a Dogcam (yes really) which is an 80mm long, 22mm diameter tube with a 135 degree wide angle lens. It'll record at 30 fps and 720i for 1.5 to 2 hours. It has an array of different brackets and mountings available. I just got it out of the box today and will be trying it out in my mate's boat and on the car until I can get flying the weekend after next. I'll let you know how it goes.

[airpolice]

For the last five years I have been using a Sony Digital Camcorder, sometimes on a tripod held down in the rear seats with seat belts and bungee cords, sometimes sitting on the dash/held by pax. This is a 6 year old, "legacy tape" type of unit rather than recording to a memory stick. That means it takes longer to convert the films on the PC when I get home, and battery & tape life is only 90 mins, max.

The picture quality is superb. The propeller is almost invisible, sometimes showing up as a grey disk rather than the series of bent lines you get with solid state devices.

I have the camera connected to the intercom via a splitter lead and this is one of the deciding factors that you need to bear in mind as well as the lens type.

You MUST get a camera with an external microphone input. Throttling your intercom output is essential and provides hours of "fun" trying to get it right.


If I was was starting again, I'd probably buy the nflitecam.

[BackPacker]

Got a GoPro Hero 2 a few weeks ago. Very impressive bit of kit. Made a really nice aeros video with it. The motorsports edition comes with decent suction cup that stays on at +4 to -1 G. So far I have only used it inside the cockpit, but one day I might just go for the outside view...

There are ways to minimize the effect from rolling shutter but frankly it's just as easy to simply ignore it.

If you want to record intercom sound you need to buy an alternative case from GoPro that gives you access to the Mic In port. Or cut a hole in the default (waterproof) case.

Anyway, there's an article about this very subject in this months Flyer magazine.

Edited to add: This may be the solution to both problems: PILOTS! Stop GoPro Hero Propeller Artifacting | The Pilot Report (http://www.thepilotreport.com/stop-gopro-hero-propeller-artifacting/)

[FullWings]

Just got a Replay XD 1080 (http://replayxd.com/cameras/replay-xd1080-camera/) and have had tried it mounted in various positions and the results are very promising. The field of view is close to that of the eye, so it gives a "first person" sort of feel to the footage. Great for capturing skyscapes.

[L'aviateur]

I really struggled to find a cheap camera with 3.5mm microphone input, but eventually got the Kodak Zi8 with a PA80 adapter to record the audio.

Pilot Avionics PA 80 Video/Audio Adapter Cable (GA Twin Plug) (http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Aviation-Headset-Adaptors-Cables-Pilot-Avionics-PA-80-Video-Audio-Adapter-Cable-GA-Twin-Plug+2185)

The Kodak Zi8 has been replaced with the Zi12 which also has the 3.5mm mic input.

All in all, if you wanted a cheaper option, I think this is the way to do it. The Zi8 and Zi12 both have the standard mounting threads so you can buy a mounting kit for it if you wanted.
I've taken some good videos, and with the audio input, it means ínstead of endless noise you can at least you can record the conversations onboard.

All in all, I think this setup cost me about 160 pounds.

[madgav]

As a cheap and (fairly) cheerful solution I use a Creative Vado HD mini-camcorder on a suction cup mount. It's a 720p camera with external audio input. On the advice of others here and elsewhere I use a Maplin telephone pickup coil (http://www.maplin.co.uk/telephone-pick-up-coil-3519) to record audio. It can be stuck on the inside or outside of a headset (works better inside) and there's no messing about with levels as the auto record level in the camera takes care of it. Also there's no intrusion into the radio/headset connections. One thing I would say is that the audio is very clean and if you want to hear some background noise (engine etc) you won't get much of that. The solution is to have a second camera with a built in mic and do a bit of editing later.
This camera is however subject to a bit of vibration when mounted on the side window of the C172, I might see if I can get some sort of anti-vibration mount for it.

Other cameras that I use are a Canon SX1 which is capable of 1080p video and has a built in stereo mic, and a couple of these (http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2011/2/18/finally-a-real-hd-mini-keyring-spy-camera-11-808.html?currentPage=2) which for £25 delivered from an ebay seller in Hong Kong are very good.

I normally do a little basic editing on the raw video as lengthy flying videos can be really boring ;)

[Unusual Attitude]

I started off with an ATC5K a few ago which worked well but the resloution wasnt brilliant and the FOV was pretty limited:-

ATC5K Helmet Action Camera by Oregon Scientific (http://atc5k.com/)

I then moved to a VIO POV 1.5 with an 8gb SD card which I have mounted to my headset:-

VIO POV 1.5 Camera System - PointofViewCameras.co.uk (http://pointofviewcameras.co.uk/vio-pov-1-5-video-camera.html)

For me the main advantage of these cams is that they have an LCD screen so you can see exactly where they are pointing, its very frustrating to do a flight then come back and review the footage to find the camera wasnt quite set up right and its at a funny angle or pointing mostly at the instrument panel.

There are now better options on the market and POV have a new HD cam which would be my choice if I was going to change:-

POV HD Digital Helmet Cameras :: V.I.O. (http://www.vio-pov.com/)

A pal of mine uses the latest GO-PRO strapped to his head when flying at work and that also produces some excellent footage however unfortunately I dont have enough room in the cockpit for something that bulky and am limited to bullet cams...

Regards

UA

[dobbin1]

I have recently acquired an NFlightcam Plus. This does the job nicely, recording audio from the intercom and tracking your position via an internal GPS. The propeller problem is virtually eliminated with the use of the filter supplied. The camera works in either 1080p or 720p. The only downside is the price.

This video was shot using the Nflightcam. The small picture in picture was recorded on a Jumbo 808 keyfob camera stuck on the coming with velcro. I used Adobe premier to edit it and splice in the PIP.
2OlPvd3mGXI

[Mark1234]

What bushfiva said, only the other way round!

CMOS devices generally suffer the 'rolling shutter'. The image is scanned line at a time off the chip, so motion between line scans gives you the strange prop effects and vibration skew etc. This can be mitigated with a dark filter over the lens / other means of slowing the shutter speed so these objects don't register. Not a perfect solution.

CCD sensors generally operate a global shutter. The chip construction allows provision of a set or secondary registers on chip - at the end of the exposure the imaging sensors are transferred to their secondaries en masse, then the secondaries are read. As such you don't get the skew etc.

That said, it seems nobody uses CCDs in their devices anymore..

[peterh337]

This topic has been done to death here many times :)

My little input this time is that IMHO one will soon get fed up with the distorted image produced by most cheap cameras. So try to get something that produces a proper rectangular frame. I used the Dogcam and it was basically crap. There is a video in this (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/tempelhof/index.html) trip writeup.

The shutter/prop effects are also naff. All the little cameras suffer from them - LCD or CMOS are mostly marketing names for similar technology. It is caused by a very fast shutter speed; the cheap cams don't have an iris so use shutter speed as the only means of controlling the aperture. Consequently, sometimes, putting a neutral density filter on the front can alleviate the issue, by reducing the light coming in and forcing the camera to use a slower shutter speed. But a manual-shutter speed camera is the only decent solution.

Now I use a Canon Legria G10 which has a manual shutter and at 1/120 or slower (which is ~ 1/10 to 1/50 of the shutter speed of the cheapo cams) one can shoot straight through the prop and one just sees a slightly visible arc which is as it should be. But it wasn't exactly cheap. I also have a proper anti-vib mount for it with massive suction pads for mounting it on the windscreen.

[maehhh]

I recently bought a VIO POV HD and am quite happy with it! Has a couple of useful mounts, a wide angle, up to 1080p and is quite handy! Battery life is 3-4hrs which is probably not bad for a flight cam but still a bit annoying for me..,

Rolling shutter effect:

The solution to this is a neutral density filter! It forces the shutter to slow down which blurs the prop and makes it look like it should!
I'm using a 1.8 ND filter fixed to the lens which almost completely eliminates the shutter effect. I guess if I find a 2.0 one day it will be perfect...

see here:

C182RG landing at Rottnest Island YRTI - YouTube

Cheers
maehhh

[peterh337]

If you are content with the massive spherical abberation in the one above, then almost any "HD" USB webcam will do just fine.

Ages ago, I actually did get a pretty fair result from a Micro$oft £50 webcam. No real distortion, too, and better than the £140 Dogcam whose main claim to fame is that you can mount it outside the cockpit (it is weatherproof) which is OK if you do a decent job of it, and nobody sees it ;)

[funfly]

And fix the focus on infinity...please.

[maehhh]

If you are content with the massive spherical abberation in the one above, then almost any "HD" USB webcam will do just fine.

I actually quite like this fish-eye kind of look.... it is on purpose. If u turn it to 720p the angle decreases to 90degree and there is no more than ordinary aberration.

[madgav]

Rolling shutter effect:

The solution to this is a neutral density filter!

Interesting, must try that.
Every day's a school day ;)

[magpienja]

I rather like the look of the Drift range of cameras... and the wide angle lens rotatable....and it come with a remote control.

[Odai]

Many thanks everyone for the great responses.

I did originally look at getting the Nflightcam, simply because it met my requirements while being designed for flying (making it easier to hook up to the intercom, built in GPS etc). However, I can't help but think it is hugely overpriced (~£480 I think).

I'm looking now at the GoPro HD2 range, and how to adapt that to flying. Just a few questions before I go any further:

- Is it possible to set this model up so as to avoid the 'fish-eye' effect? I understand the benefits of such lenses but I'd still really like to avoid it

- How can you determine the appropriate volume level on the aircraft intercom for recording? Is it simply trial and error?

- I'm guessing all I need to connect the camera to the intercom is a cable that allows the mic input to be connected in parallel to the headset/intercom audio output, there's no need for any kind of additional amplification or impedance right?

- Are there any ND filters for this camera? Is it possible to rig one up yourself?

Thanks again!

Odai.

[BackPacker]

- Is it possible to set this model up so as to avoid the 'fish-eye' effect? I understand the benefits of such lenses but I'd still really like to avoid it

Yes. Set it to 1080 instead of 1080w and you use a relatively medium-angle setting which avoids the fish-eye effect (by essentially only using the center portion of the picture). Field of view is then 127 degrees vs. 170 for wide-angle.

- How can you determine the appropriate volume level on the aircraft intercom for recording? Is it simply trial and error?

- I'm guessing all I need to connect the camera to the intercom is a cable that allows the mic input to be connected in parallel to the headset/intercom audio output, there's no need for any kind of additional amplification or impedance right?

I have not tried this yet, but if anything you will need a resistor or something in the circuit, instead of an amplifier. I would expect a lot of trial and error to be needed though.

EDITED: This looks like it will do just fine:
Video Recorder Audio Adapter - Fixed Wing - MyPilotStore.com (http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/1978)

Just remember to get an enclosure that allows access to the mic port. You can get those from GoPro direct, but I suggest you look at the other link for the enclosure that includes the ND filter. One of those has an opening for the various connectors on the left hand side. See also below.

- Are there any ND filters for this camera? Is it possible to rig one up yourself?


See the link I posted for a guy who sells GoPro housings with ND filters built-in.

[DavidWoodward]

I use a Contour Nflightcam HD as it also records sound through the headset picking up ATC and intercom. Great bit of kit ad has a 135 degree lens. I'd post one of my vids but I'm on my iPhone. If you want to see any of them then search "woodymmbbrr" in YouTube.

[Odai]

Thanks again guys.

I think I'm gonna settle for the GoPro due to its versatility, and will take a look at that skeleton case with the filter.

However, I am still concerned about connection to the aircraft intercom. I appreciate how it may take some experimentation to get the volume level right, however, I am more worried about the possibility of damage to the camera's mic input circuitry due to too strong a signal from the aircraft intercom output. I'm guessing the impedance will be a lot lower than that which is typical for aircraft speakers/headsets?

[magpienja]

I just bought an Olympus digital voice recorder...with a separate mic...that fits inside the earcup of my head set...works a treat...add it to the video at the editing stage.

Nick.

[maehhh]

I'm sure you can't do much wrong with the GoPro, it is the most common choice around... there must be a reason for it.

Cannot really comment on the mic input since I use a small separate audio recorder and combine both tracks later. I never had a problem with that. The camera mic delivers the background sound and the recorder adds ATC.


By the way:
A recent NVFR flight filmed with my VIO. The sky was indeed looking unusually nice that day but admittedly not that greenish... I'm not exactly sure yet why it turned out to be rather greenish than blue but I guess it was the white balance... beside that i'm really happy with the (very) low light performance. The pictures is crisp (until it got into youtube's hands...) and surprisingly low on noise!

C172 NVFR over Perth into amazing sky - YouTube

[peterh337]

Again, much has been posted on this, including a detailed list of stuff from me a few years ago, but the easy way to get a decent soundtrack is to get a miniature mike for the camera and tuck it under the headset earcup :)

It helps to have a cam which has a manual recording level control.

Headset / intercom connections are the best, and tidiest especially if you want to mount the cam somwhere and not interact with it during flight (the safest way; do the editing after landing) but you get a really good result using the above, with an ANR headset.

I am into electronics but have always found aircraft mike arrangements a bit of a black art and fiddly, so I stick to the miniature mike solution.

Maehh - you want a 3rd Gen image intensifier on that cam :)

[maehhh]

Peter that sounds interesting but very expensive :E

However I filmed the same flight with a Sony Nex 5n which has a large APS-C sensor and does surprisingly good even hat higher ISOs. Sadly I messed up the focus settings (don't ask me how...) which left the whole thing blurred. Beside that the picture was pretty amazing. I'll have to give it another try next time :ok:

[Odai]

That does sound easier/safer than hooking the intercom straight up to the camera.

I may go for the mic/recorder option, as it may well work out at roughly the same price as getting the GoPro skeleton case required to access the mic port, whilst allowing me to record both the ambient noise (GoPro mic) and the coms (mic/recorder combo).

I'll be using a PNR headset, and not one of great quality (loaned from the club, need to save the money for flying now :p). I'll see how it goes, but I may end up having to hook the intercom up to the recorder.

[Odai]

Sorry to bump this, but does anyone have any links to the kind of mic I should be buying for use under the headset earcup?

All the ones I can find are either the hands-free type used for phones (slightly too large) or for something completely different. :p

[Odai]

Just another quick question!

Does this cable look like it has the appropriate electrical resistors for use in between cameras and aircraft intercoms?

Pilot Avionics PA 80 Video/Audio Adapter Cable (GA Twin Plug) (http://www.transair.co.uk/showPart.asp?part=2185)

[magpienja]

ODAI...the one I use is a few years old but works well...its an Olympus VN-480PC c/w lapel mic...I got it off ebay...unfortunately not of this model all come with the separate mic but they are available,

Olympus ME15 Tie-clip Dictaphone Microphone ME-15 BRAND NEW FREE UK POST | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Olympus-ME15-Tie-clip-Dictaphone-Microphone-ME-15-BRAND-NEW-FREE-UK-POST-/380444369649?pt=UK_BOI_Office_Equipment_Supplies_Office_Equi pment_ET&hash=item58944062f1)

The metal part is removable.

[BackPacker]

To add. I just found and ordered this little gem.

Neutral Density ND / Polarizer Filter (http://www.eyeofmineactioncameras.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ENDP)

It's essentially an ND lens that sits between the GoPro and the housing. I did not know there was any space there, but there you go. The advantage of course is that your system stays modular. You can mix and match stock skeleton or waterproof GoPro housings with or without this lens as required.

Should arrive in a week or so. I'll let you know the results.

[BackPacker]

Well, the ND filter that I ordered has just arrived. I have not tested it yet, but so far I'm not impressed.

All they did was take a bit of ND/polarizing foil and cut it into a circle so that it just fits the GoPro housing. No shaping of any kind has been done.

The space between the lens and the housing is hollow, so if you squeeze a flat sheet inbetween, it will wrinkle slightly. And it does. It seems to be localized and not very severe, so it might just work without causing distortion. (Edited: The manufacturer claims that the filter will adopt the proper shape eventually. Whether that's true remains to be seen.)

Furthermore, I found out the hard way that the ND filter scratches very easily. Let's hope that doesn't cause any issues.

So it might work, but I'm not sure yet whether it's worth the 15 euros (including P&P). It might be easier and cheaper to go to your local photo professional, buy a sheet of ND filter and cut it to size yourself. Heck, you might even be able to cut several of these from a single sheet, so you have spares, and can choose to use multiple filters if necessary.

I'll be at the airfield tonight and will see if I can do some testing. Weather is not looking too good though.

Oh, and all you get is the filter itself and the packaging. No storage container of any type. As you will not want to use this filter all the time, that's not too bright. Especially for something small and vulnerable like this. But I found out that an SD card holder will work just fine.

(Edited: If you do buy, buy direct from the manufacturer. Cheaper. GoPro Polarizer Filter | GoPro Accessories, GoPro Filters and Lenses, GoPro Microphone (http://polarprofilters.com/products-page/gopro-filters-standard/goprofilter/))

[BackPacker]

Okay, first report on that PolarPro ND/polarizing filter is that it doesn't work all that well. The prop is still a strange artifact and not a blur. (I flew aerobatics at 3000-5000', with a high, thin overcast at 10.000' or so, about three hours before end of daylight.)

As of yet I don't have any video shots that show the with/without situation, though. So I don't know to what extent it helps, only that it doesn't help enough, in this particular situation, to completely remove the prop artifacting.

The good news is that after a few hours in the GoPro housing, the filter does take on a distinct convex shape. Maybe with a bit more time (and maybe some warmth) the filter will be sufficiently convex to sit in the housing without wrinkling.

[BackPacker]

As some of you may have seen, the GoPro Hero 3 is now out. Especially the most expensive model (black edition) is a major upgrade from the Hero 2. And all are wifi enabled, which is of course very convenient if you mount the camera on the outside of your aircraft. (But is possibly illegal, so you did not hear this from me...)

But there is one other thing I noticed. In the promo video at the GoPro site and YouTube there are a few shots of aircraft and helicopters, and that annoying prop artifacting that is always present with the Hero & Hero 2 is no longer there.

I'm not sure whether this is because they are now using new sensor technology, or whether they are using ND filters or maybe a super slo-mo frame rate for those shots.

Anyone with more technical knowledge about sensor technology than me, cares to take a look at the specs, to see if they are indeed using better sensor technology to prevent prop artifacting?

[Tupperware Pilot]

Backpacker

Been working on the whole prop-blur issue with the gopro..
this one in standard HD settings. This one also in narrow view..(i don't think its as good in narrow..sort of waving??)
Great clouds.. - YouTube
this one at 120fps...made some differance. This one in wide..(at 120fps you can only get wide)
Test Flight.... - YouTube

still got loads of playing to do.......but more fum formation flying then, ;)

[gileraguy]

After some period spent experimenting I use a wide angle lens and a ear cup mounted remote mic.

Plugging the cam into the intercom gave me distortion from the transponder.

The standard lens is pretty limited for internal shots in a four place light aircraft.

My Panasonic camcorder is tape based (last of the steam engines) and has 3 CCDs with a stability software system and works how I want.

The fisheye actually shows external views as good as the standard lens. If you zoom the standard lens too much it gets crappy and shaky anyway.

The best way to shoot good video is to shoot LOTS of video...