Amusing Ebay Advert

[mad_jock]

piper pa-28-180 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/piper-pa-28-180-/300603341635)

I really do feel for the poor chap.

[airpolice]

Here is the advert:

piper pa-28-180

Item condition:UsedTime left:2d 22h (05 Oct, 201111:44:47 BST)Current bid:£10,099.00 41 Bds

Reserve pricenot met

piper pa-28-180


Here we have a great opertunatity if you want to do some flying or form a group.This is our Piper PA-28-180 Challenger 1973 with 4500 hrs weve own the aircraft for nearly 20 years The engine witch was fitted new by ourselves has 1800 hrs approx but is over 12 years old running perectly with no issues. Prop was new a few years ago because it was below limits on overhaul. arc till 27/10/2011 has been stripped and painted several years ago. Avionics basic Narco mk12D with glide slope, king kx175B, Garmin GPS 100, KR 87 ADF (not working,) Auto pilot, electric trim, No toe brakes. No internal corrosion, a few spots externally. Upholstry is tatty. The wing walk panel has cracks and will need to be replaced for next arc renewal this is not uncommon and will be reflected in final price .Reason for sale, our local airfield has been taken over by Peel Holdings (bastards) who are pricing everybody out our local maint org has been priced off the airfield making it inpracticable to operate any more so sadly this is the end So come and get a bargain Low start and a unreasonably low reserve test flights welcome if you put fuel in, although I suggest you bring your own fuel because Peel Holdings avgas is delivered in gold plated tankers driven by 200 grand a week foot ballers on there days off


http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/GImages/G-BBPY001.jpg


Registration Details

Mark:G-BBPY Current Reg. Date:08/01/1992
Previous ID:NEW USA De-Reg. Date:
Status:Registered To:

Select this link to view the Full Registration History (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=reg&fullregmark=BBPY) of this aircraft

Aircraft Details

Manufacturer:PIPER AIRCRAFT CORPORATION
Type:PIPER PA-28-180
Serial No.:28-7305590
ICAO 24 bit aircraft address:Binary: 0100_00_000_001_10_1100001001
Hex: 401B09
Octal: 20015411

Popular Name:CHEROKEE
Generic Name:PA28
Aircraft Class:FIXED-WING LANDPLANE
EASA Category:CS-23E: Normal and Utility Category Aeroplane
Engines (Propellers):1: 1 x LYCOMING O-360-A4A ( SENSENICH 76EM8S5-0-60 )


MTOW:1111kg Total Hours:4354 at 31/12/2009
Year Built:1973
CofA / Permit:EASA Certificate of Airworthiness Validity Expiry:27/10/2011

[funfly]

What does the spelling tell you?

[Echo Romeo]

Tells me that when he wrote it he was probably angry, and I can't say I blame him, he may not be the best at spelling on Ebay, so what!

[Spit161]

The seller obviously has a grudge with Peel Holdings...

cheers,
Jake.

[airpolice]

Leaving aside the grudge with the airfield owners, I am wondering how someone with such a limited grasp of written English can afford a plane?

This is not a list of "typo" mistakes, it's a primary school level phonetic cock up on the spelling front.


Perhaps he's a Pikey and is now screwed because Peel Holdings don't take cash.

Just a thought.

[Capetonian]

I suspect that the writer is dyslexic rather than illiterate, I have a dyslexic friend whose uncorrected English is like that, despite being intelligent and quite well educated.

Also, sadly perhaps, there is often no link between an ability to write English properly and the accumulation of wealth.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I know the seller and he is indeed an intelligent and delightful chap. I can only agree with his feelings for Peel, and admire his wit, if not his English, in expressing them so amusingly.

[ak7274]

Very amyoozing and well putt.

[Capetonian]

I defy anyone to find a word in the following which is wrongly spelt!

Eye have a plain witch is fore sail. All though it is a bit the worse four where, it flies grate and wood bee a good bye for sum one who kneads a cheep plain to go flying inn at weak ends.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Ahhh nobody worried about all the 'self' maintenance??? are any of that syndicate LAME's???

[mad_jock]

Not really, some of the PFA lot over here can give the pro engineers a run for there money on quality and knowledge.

Reading the advert again I can spot the spelling mistakes, didn't the first time. Maybe the seller is also a degree qualified dyslexic Mechanical Engineer who has been taking stuff to pieces and putting it back together since he was a nipper like myself.

Doing a 50 hour isn't mensa material and neither is doing an engine change to someone that has an engineers head on them. Crap spelling and grammar in my experence doesn't effect the quality of the job at all. None of the machinery I have worked on be it earth mover, tank, lorry, aircraft, car, pumps, compressors or for that matter washing machines have suffered due to my crap spelling and grammar. Although to be fair some of it has suffered getting beaten into submission with a sodding great hammer or a 6ft lever bar.

[stickandrudderman]

What does the spelling tell you?


What does your post say about you?

[fattony]

What does the spelling tell you?
What does your post say about you?

I'm not sure what funfly was implying but my initial thought was that it may be a scam. Certainly spelling and grammar, while not necessarily an indicator of someone's intelligence, are often one of the signs of some kind of scam.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the ad is a scam. I'm merely saying that was my initial thought. I'm quite sure my initial thought was wrong though.

[Jan Olieslagers]

I've always wondered about this dyslexia thing. Can't help remembering the heyday of usenet, when 60% of one country's contributors attributed their poor spelling to the same inconveniency.

I can imagine certain people cannot detect certain (types of) spelling errors. The degree of improvement they can achieve by relatively simple means such as spelling checkers has never been clear to me.

[abgd]

The scams, in my view, tend to have slightly different types of mistakes such as missing articles (a common mistake for speakers of Slavic or some East Asian languages, where they don't have any).

The question here being if you're selling such an expensive item, why you wouldn't get someone to proof read it for you?

[IO540]

The question here being if you're selling such an expensive item, why you wouldn't get someone to proof read it for you?

I have to agree with that.

Also I find it hard to understand how adult literacy can be so poor. The people presumably never read books, newspapers, or any other form of printed material. Even a totally trash novel will be 99.99% grammatically correct. Even the Sunday Sport is.

The scams, in my view, tend to have slightly different types of mistakes such as missing articles (a common mistake for speakers of Slavic or some East Asian languages, where they don't have any).

You might be suprised. I have seen some pretty clever scams. There was one going around for a TB20 G-HOOD, where the seller was asking for a ~ £10k deposit to view the aircraft. It so happens that lots of people ask me for views on various TB20s and I know of several people who nearly fell for this one, but fortunately all walked away after some intractable correspondence with the "seller".

However I don't think this Ebay advert is a scam.

BTW, what airport are they referring to? How could an engineering company be priced off it? Normally, they have a lease of some sort.

[Dave Gittins]

The mentions of Peel Holdings and the location of the aeroplane as Manchester would seem to imply Barton.

[Juno78]

Doing a 50 hour isn't mensa material and neither is doing an engine change to someone that has an engineers head on them. Crap spelling and grammar in my experence doesn't effect the quality of the job at all. None of the machinery I have worked on be it earth mover, tank, lorry, aircraft, car, pumps, compressors or for that matter washing machines have suffered due to my crap spelling and grammar. Although to be fair some of it has suffered getting beaten into submission with a sodding great hammer or a 6ft lever bar.
And conversely I have a Mensa-level IQ and an Oxford degree, and I can barely change my own tyres and certainly shouldn't be let loose trying to do anything technical to an aircraft...

[IO540]

When they say the engine was fitted new by themselves, I doubt they mean they actually did it as private individuals.

[mad_jock]

Why not? fitting an engine isn't hard be it in a car or aircraft. In fact a aircraft engine is easier than a car because you have good access.

[Crash one]

Could someone please advise why spelling or grammatical errors in an advertisement should automatically point to the fact that it must be a scam?
Why should an engineer have to be able to spell correctly before being considered competent enough to be let loose with a spanner?
Why should self maintenance automatically be sub standard?
This whole thread is questioning someones integrity based on his spelling ability.

When they say the engine was fitted new by themselves, I doubt they mean they actually did it as private individuals.

Apart from the legalities of CofA, why not? what kind of supermen are required to fit an engine? I'm not an aircraft engineer, I have no cerstifficit to say I'm anything, but I can (could) certainly remove, strip, re-build & refit an engine from a PA28. Not sure about the Space Shuttle, I'd have to have a look first.

PS. Bad spelling Jock, It's not a aircraft it's an aircraft.:ugh:

[IO540]

Well, avoiding any of the usual righteous comments, let's just say it is illegal to DIY-change an engine on a certified aircraft.

If you did that, you better not be trying to flog the thing openly. Anybody who is not a complete mug will look at the maintenance record and will spot a lack of a maintenance company signoff on the job.

The result is an aircraft which is worthless until somebody spends some money straightening out the paperwork.

I know changing an engine is not hard. I've seen mine done twice. But somebody who is less than clued up might bend around the oil hoses a bit too much, for example, so they split a few hundred hours later. Anyway, hoses are usually mandatory-replacement at engine replacement/overhaul. Were they changed also?

[Crash one]

But somebody who is less than clued up might bend around the oil hoses a bit too much, for example, so they split a few hundred hours later. Anyway, hoses are usually mandatory-replacement at engine replacement/overhaul. Were they changed also?


Sheesus H Christ.

[mad_jock]

Its not illegal to change an engine DIY and get it signed off afterwards by a suitably qualified person.

The home builts do it all the time.

Its on a permit there are no issues if they did change it themselves and then got a sign off afterwards.

And to be honest if they had done it themselves it would be a big tick in my book because its obviously had someone that is that way inclined giving it TLC. More so than if it was getting put into a shop only when required.

[Crash one]

And to be honest if they had done it themselves it would be a big tick in my book because its obviously had someone that is that way inclined giving it TLC. More so than if it was getting put into a shop only when required.
:D

Next??

[bingofuel]

Its on a permit
I don't think Cherokees are flown on permits.It is an EASA aeroplane so not a permit type, but I take your point about how competent owner maintenance can be very good, but it all depends on the competence of the person doing the work, and the person doing the double check.

[IO540]

The PA28-180 is not on a permit, MJ.

Like it or not, you do have to use a MO to do stuff like changing engines :)

Regards actual quality of work, yes this varies greatly, which is partly why I do my own 50hr services (it also saves me a huge amount of money). Usually I do them with an A&P/IA friend of mine, not least because some of it is a 2-person job, but I could do them on my own and have done so if I can get help with the cowlings.

Changing an engine is a fair size job. It needs a crane, and practically speaking needs a hangar, and this makes it out of reach of the vast majority of aircraft owners because they are not allowed to do work in their hangar.

Also, engines are often delivered without the accessories attached (or with them packed loose). This is more stuff you have to do correctly.

Anyway, we are picking over a silly advert written by a person with poor grammar, and I very much doubt he or his fellow pilots actually changed the engine themselves :)

[mad_jock]

It doesn't matter it only really matters on what qualification the engineer has that signs it off.

I have changed brake packs and tyres on my commercial type because the ginger had hurt his hand. I did all the grunt work and he gave helpful tips and drank tea and signed the tech log after abusing my handy work with locking wire.

And alot of engines changed in maint organisations will be changed by a none licensed fitter then it will be inspected by a licensed engineer then a dupe inspection done by another.

But I do take your point bingo about it can't be a permit type. On G-INFO its down as a EASA CofA expiring the end of this month.

[ANW]

And conversely I have a Mensa-level IQ and an Oxford degree, and I can barely change my own tyres and certainly shouldn't be let loose trying to do anything technical to an aircraft...

Juno78 you have hit the nail on the head !!!

You see the person involved is just the opposite. He is a current EASA 145 licensed engineer, he also works on and flies PFA metal/plastic/wood aircraft and is a PFA (okay LAA if you must) inspector of same and has been for many decades. Very nice guy.

IO540, the location for that aeroplane is indeed City Airport Manchester Barton. Where fuel went up by 9 ppl last week to pay the footballers' wages, now £2.27 inc. VAT for one litre Avgas. Barton is still maintenance free since July 31st when the last lease holder pulled out, as it was not commercially viable. The latest rumour indicates that the organisation interested in taking it on, has now had a major re-think.

And to be honest if they had done it themselves it would be a big tick in my book because its obviously had someone that is that way inclined giving it TLC.

Another nail hit by mad jock !

Anyway, we are picking over a silly advert written by a person with poor grammar, and I very much doubt he or his fellow pilots actually changed the engine themselves

IO540 - wrong yet again. I know. You don't. And they did use licensed premises, before you ask. :)

[IO540]

I didn't know one needed licensed premises :)

That avgas price is really high, but why does a 9p/litre increase kill off the syndicate?

[mad_jock]

If you are setting up a new MO you need a climate controlled insulated hanger or some such. A new 145 hanger is a sight to be seen.

I actually feel a bit guilty, I highlighted an ad, and the poor bloke who is obviously very skilled in his field has got a right slating for something that I think we both have a common issue with.

:uhoh:

I wish that a I could afford it, bet she is a lovely aircraft even with a few cosmetic details outstanding.

[A and C]

No internal corrosion? ......................... best be looking inside the flaps then!

Walkway a bit soft = wing has to come off.

[PompeyPaul]

I'd look at the spelling and presume that English wasn't his first language, that's all.

[mad_jock]

ehh up our kid Ah think pompy may av eur point wi' t' english as eur secon' language.

[funfly]

Same man has now increased his bid to £18,500 and this seems to be above the reserve. When he/her gets it he might like to put a posting on here - unless he already has done so!
We shall know in a day's time.

[Jan Olieslagers]

I'd look at the spelling and presume that English wasn't his first language, that's all. And, from previous experience here, I would presume the exact opposite.

On these pages at least, several non-native English speakers have shown great effort and diligence in writing English properly - even if it was perhaps only to earn their level 6 LPE :oh:

[Capetonian]

The previous post is spot on. One of my Polish ex-employees, whose written and spoken English was almost faultless, used to show me memos from her 'superior' (a spotty ignorant yoof) which were so badly written as to be as incomprehensible to me as they were to her.

Like many foreigners, she took pride in her English, her appearance, her work, and everything she did, whereas he just messed and lied his way through his working day. He has been on the dole and housing benefit, a burden on the public exchequer, for the last 3 years, whereas she is now running a succesful small business.

[gasax]

I have to say that the 'engineering knowledge' displayed in many of the postings here rarely fails to amuse me. With the complete and utter nonsense which some people trot out they thoroughly deserve to be financially raped by the less scruptulous Part M companies that thrive in the UK.

Having completed a double engine swap in a day ( two aircraft, swapping from one to the other) and flying both the next day after sorting a couple of non standard mods and the paperwork, I can only say that sometimes less is a lot more................. and some basi spanner skills are all that is required - oh and actually reading the manuals, rather than doing what you did on the last one.....

[UV]

With the complete and utter nonsense which some people trot out

Mmmm...just like post accident speculation...where pprune is at its best!

[mad_jock]

realization even I know thats ****e spelling :p

[Unusual Attitude]

Its so they can get better scores at Scrabble than us..... :E

[gasax]

Just means there are 300 million who get it wrong......

[Nine Eleven]

From somebody who knows the aircraft and the seller from many moons ago, it is an eye-opener to really see how much bull can be posted on a forum.

For £18,500 I'd say it was a bargain and as for the seller, top bloke and an engineer who I have trusted for the last 20 years.

The real topic of conversation should be the demise of Barton and the circumstances that have led to the aircraft being sold.

Some people just need to get a grip of what really matters, especially concerning the hobby / profession we all read these forums for.

(was going to check for spelling and grammar mistakes, but that would have been hypocritical :))

[avidflyer]

Agreed, it's infuriating to see a well-respected guy with this much experience berated in such a manner. It's bad enough him being forced to sell a much-loved aircraft...
We're also trying to decide whether it's worth hanging on at Barton in case things change for the better.

[Capetonian]

but that would have been hypocritical

Talking of which, two similar words but with different meanings are hypocritical as correctly used above, and hypercritical which means something rather different.

My housemaster at school accused me, on my school report, of being hypocritical, which I am not, and I resented the comment and told him so. He meant hypercritical, which I am and readily admit to.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Well said Nine Elevan.

[A and C]

I trust that was not aimed at me?

[toptobottom]

Silvaire1: ...the EU Government switched from Z to S in midstream a few years ago and as a result has both in the voluminous written record of their bureaucracy

Shouldn't that be "its bureaucracy"? :p

[toptobottom]

"The CAA have..."; "The team are great..."; "There's two of us..."; "There's too much people..", etc.

The problem is kids aren't taught grammar at school anymore and the teachers speak as badly as the worst of them!

It drives me mad - must be getting old... :*

[funfly]

Overall it doesn't matter how words are spelt because it's all about communication.
However, rightly or wrongly, we do tend to judge our peers on the spelling and grammar of their written communications.
And I, for one, will continue to do so.

[airpolice]

I think this thread has thrown up two distinct, and entertaining aspects.

1 Peel Holdings are trying to run a business, and some people think that's being done unfairly. In terms of wheels within wheels, perhaps "driving the maintenance operation out of town" is part of a master plan. Remember that Peel Holdings is not about providing affordable GA, it is about making money for the shareholders.

2 Someone, (and we don't know who it is) has displayed appalling written English skills on Ebay and some of us are "aving a right larf" at that being the best that some people can do. Being unable to do better is one thing, but not knowing of that limitation and getting help is another.

The crossover point is that someone with such a limited grasp of writing feels qualified to deride the efforts of a business which is clearly winning this particular battle.

[funfly]

I believe spelt is a type of wheat. There are deep implications in how you spelled spelled

:\

[Capetonian]

someone with such a limited grasp of writing feels qualified to deride the efforts of a business which is clearly winning this particular battle.

Perhaps, as I said earlier, this person is dyslexic, a condition which is often associated with high intelligence and drive, leading to success in many areas. The fact that his written English is poor does not preclude him from the right to criticise a business.

I'm not saying this is the case here, I'm just making a suggestion.

[BabyBear]

Surely someone intelligent, whether dyslexic or not, will understand the negative implications of such poor English and for self interest take appropriate steps, whether asking for help or/and spell checking, to maximise achieving the highest price?

How many people have seen the advert and as a consequence of the written English not taken it seriously?

For me allowing such poor English to be used in an internet advert says more about the individual than being poor at English, irrespective of how great an engineer he may be.

BB

[Capetonian]

I am inclined to agree with you, but you are not dyslexic and nor am I (*), so our perspective is different. My dyslexic friend is extremely proud and for years went through life refusing to accept any help or criticism of his poor spelling, in fact he was in denial of it.

He started his working life as an engineer, and did well, but when he branched into consultancy he realised that he would not be taken seriously unless his documentation was of a higher standard, so he employed a lady to take care of that side of things for him and has done extremely well. And the lady became his wife!

(*) ta last i dn'ot tihnk i are

[IO540]

I agree with BB. I would get an advert right.

One reason is that, in most walks of business/life, the most desirable buyers are educated people who definitely do spot bad grammar and judge it accordingly. That's why when you are starting a business, setting up a very clean corporate image helps dramatically in selecting a high quality customer base. If your promotional material is badly written, you have cut off both of your legs before you even started, and the only customers you will pick up will be people who are similarly illiterate, and most of them will be poor businessmen, with all the problems which follow from that (credit control, for starters ;) ).

Incidentally, how can you tell dyslexia rather than just somebody who cannot write (a serious Q)?

[LH2]

He meant hypercritical, which I am and readily admit to.

...in an hypocritical sort of way? :E (sorry!)

[Paris Dakar]

So, it's not bad enough that the GA society is about lose some more brethren who are having to sell their aircraft but a raft of folk think it's funny to take the p1ss out of the way the advert is written? FFS!! :mad: :ugh:

[GGR]

Ahhh nobody worried about all the 'self' maintenance??? are any of that syndicate LAME's???

No but they may be ELAMS

[LH2]

:):)

Last week I asked my instructor whether an organization (with a Z, mind you) takes the plural or singular in German... she replied "singular, like English". I explained this feature of UK English and she'd never heard of it.

The use of 'they' as a singular pronoun of usually but not always indeterminate gender is well established since the earliest days of Modern English. I haste to add that this usage is not limited to Britain, as evidenced by its inclusion in Merriam-Webster dictionaries.

[BackPacker]

I agree with BB. I would get an advert right.

A while ago there was a guy on here that wanted to sell his aircraft and asked for advice on where and how to advertise. My advice (and I think you came up with the same, IO) was to create a special webpage, possibly even under its own unique domain, with pictures of the plane (including detailed pictures of, for instance, the tatty interior) and all the tech data that any buyer could possibly want on the airframe, engine, prop, whatever. Only when that webpage is active (and looking good) would you place adverts, and have all adverts point to that webpage.

Sure, it requires some effort and maybe a few UKP in fees for hosting, domain registration, some help from somebody knocking up such a page and so forth, but it saves hours in answering the same questions via e-mail, gives a very good impression to potential buyers (for starters, it shows you don't have anything to hide) and may even lead to a higher price.

At the very least, it will help you weed out the customers that are not interested in your aircraft, but cannot tell that from a small advert alone.

One reason is that, in most walks of business/life, the most desirable buyers are educated people who definitely do spot bad grammar and judge it accordingly.

Yep. In fact, I judge a company today by its website primarily. If that's shoddily done, outdated, with dead links, no Search function, no obvious place where I can download tech specs, drivers and such, they're not getting my business. Because it not only reflects on the product itself, but also on the quality of pre- and after-sales care.

And you certainly don't use the website or any other forms of communication to say bad things about customers, suppliers or other business partners. After all, you might need them in the future again. But also, potential customers might not be willing to trade with you if you've already shown that you are willing to take a business conflict public.

And I just realized, I probably spent more time composing this post than the author did composing the advert. And I don't even have a plane to sell.

[LH2]

Agreed, it's infuriating to see a well-respected guy with this much experience berated in such a manner.

As regards the spelling aspect, I don't think most comments are personally aimed at him, considering that most of us do not know him.

As for the comments relating to the maintenance side of it, yes I would have to agree that many of them seem to be full of unwarranted assumptions, speculation, and inaccurate knowledge.

Then again, there is always the Ryanair approach that any publicity is good publicity, especially if it comes free. :) I am sure that any sufficiently interested buyer would not form an impression based on the sort of rubbish we all write here. That said, he probably could do with revising the spelling of his E-bay ad unless it was an intended artefact for dramatic effect.

[LH2]

Incidentally, how can you tell dyslexia rather than just somebody who cannot write (a serious Q)?

I do not know, but in practice there are often plenty of other signs to tell whether a person is intelligent and educated.

For example, Mad Jock's posts, despite their atrocious spelling and often highly colloquial register, still make him appear as a cultivated man on account of the reasoning ability and non-trivial knowledge shown in them.

Interestingly, from an armchair linguist's point of view I have noticed that, even across languages, it seems to me that the incidence of poor spelling amongst educated users seems to be higher for those who speak "non-standard" varieties of the language.

To take the previous example, Scottish people seem to have more difficulty than English users of a similar cultural level, and I have noticed the same trend in Spanish, e.g., while proofreading theses from both Spaniards (including those for whom Spanish is not their primary language) and Latin Americans. Mind you, I'm not a native speaker of either tongue.

I always wanted to be a humanities sort of person but was rubbish at it so ended up doing science. :uhoh:

[abgd]

Incidentally, how can you tell dyslexia rather than just somebody who cannot write (a serious Q)?


I don't claim to any great authority, but the few people with dyslexia I've known seemed to have a particular flair for misspelling. I secretly enjoyed one dyslexic friend's emails for their preposterously logical misspellings. Her grammar, punctuation and content all seemed pretty good: if you ignored the spelling they read like emails from an intelligent person.

Perhaps trying to spot that a person has dyslexia isn't actually the right way round of thinking about things. If I get an Email from someone who otherwise seems reasonably bright, I'm always willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until proved otherwise.

Personaly, and like Mark Twain, I wud liyk to see zpelling abolished. I shudder when I think of the amount of time wasted by two billion people learning the difference between wright, write, right, rite and so on...

[BackPacker]

Her grammar, punctuation and content all seemed pretty good: if you ignored the spelling they read like emails from an intelligent person.

That's what I understand from dyslexia as well. AFAIK it's mainly a reduced ability of the brain to form words from individual letters and vice versa. So what I would expect to see is normal paragraph/sentence structures (with proper punctuation and capitalization), normal reasoning and logic, plus the occasional misspelled word. Particularly letters that look more or less the same, but are switched around.

I shudder when I think of the amount of time wasted by two billion people learning the difference between wright, write, right, rite and so on...

They're, their, there.

But the people that confuse these most often seem to be native English speakers that just approach the language phonetically, and get it wrong. I don't think it's a dyslectic trait.

English is a horrible language in that respect since there are multiple letter combinations that lead to the same phonetic pronounciation. As an example, a word like "ghoti" can easily be pronounced as "fish".

Ghoti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti)

[abgd]

Well, if the guy has a genuinely nice aeroplane for sale, and he doesn't get the price he's asking for it because business people look down on him, two parties lose out. One is the seller, but the other is the businesspeople who missed out on a bargain. You can sometimes pick up good adverts on Ebay by looking specifically for things that are misspelled. Just because it's owner can't spell 'computer moniter' correctly doesn't mean the one they're selling won't work.

Yep. In fact, I judge a company today by its website primarily. If that's shoddily done, outdated, with dead links, no Search function, no obvious place where I can download tech specs, drivers and such, they're not getting my business. Because it not only reflects on the product itself, but also on the quality of pre- and after-sales care.


I can see where you're coming from, particularly when a website is integral to a business (e.g. lets you order directly etc), but I also tend to get jumpy when I see websites or brochures that are too slick, particularly if it's for charities or smaller organisations. It's often a sign that people's priorities are in the wrong place.

I'm currently looking for flying schools, and there seems to be a roughly inverse correlation between the quality of the website and the school's reputation. Does a good flying instructor necessarily know how to write good HTML? Is a small local flying school with a simple web-page necessarily worse than a large one where the cost of the swish website is borne by a much larger organisation? Will a school with an automatic course price calculator be able to do me as good a deal as one that doesn't have to update their databases to offer me a discount? Personally, I've been calling people or Emailing them, and I judge the companies more on the quality of their responses than their websites.

On the same grounds, if you already know how to do an internet page and buy a domain name in a few hours work, then it sounds a good idea. If you have to learn everything from scratch or pay someone to do it, it sounds a thorough waste of time, unless perhaps you're selling something really expensive. Would it really be so much worse to put up a few photos on Flickr? I would actually be slightly reassured to buy from someone with a 3 year old flickr account and an obvious interest in hillwalking and collecting vintage guitars, over buying from an advert on a recently created website.

[Spitoon]

Her grammar, punctuation and content all seemed pretty good: if you ignored the spelling they read like emails from an intelligent person.So are you saying someone who cannot spell - as a result of dyslexia or for any other reason - is not intelligent???


More generally it is interesting to see how the advert unearths such polarised (polarized, if you prefer) views. For myself, when I read the advert I noticed the spelling errors and so on (although, of course, I don't know if I noticed all of the 'errors') but it didn't bother me greatly, I was more interested in the aircraft. I made some initial assumptions that the current owner(s) must be/include a maintenance engineer which from my experience means that the aircraft, however tatty it may be cosmetically, will have been lavished with TLC from a mechanical perspective. I don't know much about aircraft values but I suspect the successful bidder has got a good deal!

But back to grammar and stuff. The simple fact that many of the posts are dismissive or critical of the author of the advert should serve as a warning to anyone who seeks to communicate in writing, particularly on the web. The actual words used - irrespective of the accuracy of their spelling - is a very small part of the message that is actually conveyed.

And I do hope that any errors in spelling or grammar that I may not have spotted do not detract from the points that I am trying to make.

[S-Works]

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone........

[BackPacker]

but I also tend to get jumpy when I see websites or brochures that are too slick, particularly if it's for charities

That's indeed another side of the coin. I am associated with a fairly large charity that flies with sick/disabled children all throughout the Netherlands. Our charity manages to attract professional cameramen, photographers, graphic designers, web designers and so on. The result of this is that our marketing in general (brochures, web site, event reports etc.) is very, very good. Possibly even too good for a charity our size: We come across as far more professional and wealthy than we are. Which reduces the "sympathy" factor and thus donations.

[abgd]

Quote:
Her grammar, punctuation and content all seemed pretty good: if you ignored the spelling they read like emails from an intelligent person.
So are you saying someone who cannot spell - as a result of dyslexia or for any other reason - is not intelligent???


No, quite the opposite.

[funfly]

bose-x
I think someone else said that:=

Hi mate, haven't heard from you in quite a while, good thread this yeh?

[S-Works]

bose-x
I think someone else said that

Hi mate, haven't heard from you in quite a while, good thread this yeh?

Doh! I thought it was an original line....... :}:}

I am somewhat bemused by it. Brings PPRune down to a whole new level. Made even more amusing by some whose first language is not English to be casting stones!!

Personally I found the eBay ad quite amusing. But then I just read it as it was intended I suspect rather than reading conspiracy or fraud into it or deciding to attack the grammar and spelling......

***** I apologise in advance to the grammar and spelling police for any inadaquacies in my use of the English language. I am but a poor Yorkshireman.

[patowalker]

... while proofreading theses from both Spaniards (including those for whom Spanish is not their primary language) and Latin Americans. Mind you, I'm not a native speaker of either tongue.

Spanish, as in language, is a politically inspired misnomer. I am a native speaker of Castillian.

BTW, a native English speaker would say "I hasten to add" :)

[funfly]

Efallai fy mod hyd yn oed fod yn y Gymraeg - yn awr a fyddai'n anodd iawn

[patowalker]

Ironically, if you wanted to hear Welsh that has not been influenced by English over the last 150 years, you would have to visit the Castillian speaking country where I grew up.

[Capetonian]

you would have to visit the Castillian speaking country where I grew up.

Well, one little part of it! Trelew, fascinating little town.

[patowalker]

Glaniad (http://www.glaniad.com/)

Have we now drifted too far?

[Jan Olieslagers]

Back to the opener, then.
To me it is quite obvious:
The ad's spelling IS horrible.
Perhaps the advertiser did this willingly, or at least consciously, to vent frustration.
Perhaps it was done unconsciously, through some kind of linguistical handicap.
Now I would be VERY careful, to say the least, buying from anyone unable or unwilling to control their emotions, especially towards outsiders, or to be aware of and compensate for their own limitations.
If even the ad is substandard, what would the actual state of the plane be? It might be OK, but it seems unlikely.

[patowalker]

Jan,

Could you explain how the OP's spelling and grammar correlates to his engineering skills and the airworthiness of the subject aircraft?

[BabyBear]

I can't speak for Jan, however my concern would be that someone who takes such little care when it is in their own interest to do so may take the same care in looking after his 'pride and joy'. I think there has been enough discussion here to demonstrate a number of potential buyers would be sufficiently put off? Whether they would be right to be cautious, or not is not the issue.

BB

[Jan Olieslagers]

Patowalker: the ad's deficiencies are obvious - the other points, though confirmed by many, have yet to be shown to me.

Not that I want to disbelieve anyone, and to be frank I am not really interested in that kind of aeroplane at whatever price in whatever condition.

But to the uninformed, the ad is smelly. The informed perhaps didn't need an ad anyway.

Or could it be the advertiser believes in Ryanair's policy that any publicity is positive publicity?

[patowalker]

So the ad is deficient and might have put off potential buyers. That might say something about the OP's ability to sell his aircraft, it says nothing about his ability to maintain it.

Anyway, I don't think it was his 'pride and joy', it was a workhorse, and it sold.

[Jan Olieslagers]

That might say something about the OP's ability to sell his aircraft, it says nothing about his ability to maintain it.

To me, it did say something about his willingness to do the sale, the maintenance, actually anything in life, to the best possible standards.

But if the plane did sell, this argument becomes mooter than ever. Can't help wondering if the ad did any help, or if the buyer found it by another way. Very secondary, though.