Which plane do u dislike the most and why?

[Tiger_ Moth]

well?
which plane do u hate the most?
and why?

I for example would have to say something along the large 4 engined civil aviation jet line of things, eg: 747...

BECAUSE: It is not FUN to fly, u get in u take off, 37,000 feet, u cant see anything, stay at the exact same height and heading sort of thing for 5 hours until its time to follow the radio beacon/signal/computer/gwhoigsjhd9j9p down to land.
You could have flown it with the windows covered up!
Real; fun flying is not about twiddling with little knobs and adjusting little instruments its about wind in ur face, zoom, buzzing engines dancing about the skies...
like with Tiger Moths....

How about YOU?

[Frederic]

Piper Tomahawk, aaaaargh! Run for cover! What a weird,ugly weird unpleasant tin box that thing is!Single engined Piper and Cessna stuff, for sure. Who ever, dear lord, came up with the idea to make flying versions of 1970's American saloon cars??? Piper Seneca, bweeerk, horrible piece of machinery. Gyroplanes: don't get me wrong, I L-O-V-E helicopters, so gyro's must be pretty much fun as well, but they're so damn UGLY (same goes for cessna's). And last but not least my very own BAe146/AVRORJ. I fly it every day and I do feel affection for it, but I don't know why. Actually I feel a bit kinky for it... ;-)
And Tiger, airliners ARE fun to fly and are not all about cruising at 37000 feet and twiddling with buttons.

[autobrakemedium]

Seneca I

Worst aeroplane ever built.

[big pistons forever]

You got that right autobrakemediun

[Tiger_ Moth]

Of course theyre not ALL about 37,000 fett, adjusting little knobs etc but they are QUITe a lot about that. Sure landing it n stuff would be fun but a lot of it is the above. And in a Tiger Moth then its fun ALL the time. And in airliners you do fly really high for ages so you cant see anything.
I just dont see what the attraction is.
However i used to only like really fast military fighters and i disliked any old plane, even spitfires, i dont know why.
After a while i realised that i really liked all the old planes and now i cant see why i ever disliked them. its odd.
However i have always disliked airliners, regarding them largely as flying buses, A320 Airbus it even admits to it! But as i could dislike great vintage planes once then i understand how you can actually like airliners but cant imagine myself liking them

[nohat]

T M, Yes we DO fly the big stuff at FL370 for 10 hours or so. Then get off and go and sit by the pool and have a beer or two. We do this for Money http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif Then we buy a share in something fast,small and aerobatic and go and fly in a manner that would spill every G&T in first class.This we do for fun :)

Later Dudes


[This message has been edited by nohat (edited 15 April 2001).]

[DB6]

Hispano Buchon (Me 109 with a Merlin engine), because it's neither one thing or the other. What a waste of an engine. Clipping Spitfire wings should be a capital offence as well.

[EGAC]

The Beech 1900D must be the ugliest aircraft of all time (apart from the Transavia Airtruk that is). http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif

[VH_KAM]

The Fairey Gannet...

"If it looks right, it'll fly right."

It doesnt look like it would fly right !!!

[This message has been edited by VH_KAM (edited 14 April 2001).]

[Frederic]

nohat, thanks for making my piont.You hit the nail on the head. But even then I STILL like flying airliners. (but maybe not for 10 hours on end, I don't know, haven't done it yet????)

[This message has been edited by Frederic (edited 15 April 2001).]

[nohat]

Frederic
Your not strange. Anybody who has flown a large jet transport knows that they ARE fun to fly. :) Not only that, but they require skill to do it with style. Try hacking a B767-300 round a low level circuit into a place like CFU, or doing a ferry flight. The performance would give a few older jet fighters a run for their money. I have made it to FL410 in just under 9 mins with 133 pax, out of LGW. It was in a B767-200 with the large C2 engines. Loadsafun :) PS That was using D2 takeoff and CLM 2.

[This message has been edited by nohat (edited 15 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by nohat (edited 15 April 2001).]

[Speedbird252]

Hey DB6, are you having a go at the Mk 5 Spit? !!!

Surely not.......clipped for a reason you know....

[G.Khan]

Twin Comanche - a pure bitch on one.

[fly4fud]

Just had a go at one of those MS880 Morane 100HP I thought buying for some afterwork sessions. Well, featherlite but non-responsive ailerons, very hard pitch control and more than underpowered http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Didn't buy the lemon...

------------------
... cut my wings and I'll die ...

[Frederic]

Nohat, that's 4500fpm average! Wow, how heavy where you?(actual vs. max TOW) I got 4500fpm on the 146 a couple of times, but these where initial climb rates with just me, tha captain and 3000kg of fuel on board.

[nohat]

Frederic, in answer to your query.
The B767-200 has a MTOM of 159,210kg. The APS works out to around 84,500kg. The pax plus fuel came to around 20,000kg, we were only going to Alc or somewhere similar.I think we were 54,700 under MTOM.
The Company reconfigure the cabin for 290,274 or 263 seats depending on demand.
The GE CF6-80C2B4F engine is rated @ 58,000lbs of thrust and is a FADEC engine. You're never performance limited, a real sports model. Unfortunately we only have two. All the other 767-200's have 80A's or 80A2's. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif On the day, ATC helped and gave us a continuous climb with an intruction to "expedite" :) I have no idea what the initial ROC was, because the VSI's only show up to 6000FPM. The needle spends a significant amount of time pegged to the stops. All derates are washed out by 12000FT. All this equals two grinning pilots. :) Speed control is fairly difficult, as is trying to level off at a low altitude like 4000FT. If you are not careful you can blow the flaps off as you go whistling through the flap schedule. This is compounded by the fact that we have a max pitch restriction of 20 Degs. In an engine out case with higher pitches and lots of power on the live engine, it rolls inverted fast and spoil's a nice day. I chatted to a ferry crew a few years back who had had an electrical problem and failed to notice that the derates had been cancelled. They gave themselves a shock as the A/C shot through the flap schedule as they rotated. Still it can make flying jet transports fun.
My pet hate aircraft is the B757. It's noisy in the Flt deck and it spills my coffee in turbulence. Not forgetting that above FL290, it climbs like a broken box and it's not a B767. ;)

[PaulDeGearup]

For an aeroplane that's a complete bag of spanners you have to have tried to fly a BAe ATP.

How the beast was given a certficate Lord knows !
Isn't known as the Skoda for nothing !

[This message has been edited by PaulDeGearup (edited 17 April 2001).]

[Chocks Wahay]

Tipsy Nipper - looks like something made by Little Tikes that you'd get for the kids in Toys 'r' Us.

Tiger Moths come close - slow & ugly, don't understand the appeal really. Much preferred the Sopwith ones, but you don't see many about. I suppose it's a Hurricane / Spitfire thing.

[This message has been edited by Chocks Wahay (edited 17 April 2001).]

[Mr moto]

Grumman AA-1. Two standard weight adults, no baggage and the IFR range is less than half an hour.
I have little respect (as designed products) for Spam cans by Cessna, Piper, Grumman etc.
The Cardinal is OK but still uses 200 horses and CS prop and retractable undercarriage to do what a Jodel or Robin does on 160-180, fixed pith , fixed gear.

[Ivchenko]

The Tiger Moth is a truly dreadful aeroplane. And yes I have flown one.

Takes off at 70, flies at 70, lands at 70 - and even the T21 Sedbergh glider loops better.

What an embarrassment from the era of the Jungmann.

[Speedbird252]

I agree with Chocs, the Tiger Moth is lovely to look at, but its a sack of $hite in the air, it handles worse than a Cessna 152. It may be cool to do a PPL in one, but it wont make you a good Pilot. Learn in a PA28 and then learn to fly a Tiger Moth. Youll live longer - not to mention do your cross countries the same day.

I know you are keen Tigermoth, and I love Tornado`s, but I dont want to do a PPL in one.......! Learn the right way, in the right aircraft - then go and enjoy the Moth -youll be glad you did. If you try to run before you can walk you will just get frustrated. You have the rest of your life to play - enjoy your learning!!

[The_Cowboy]

Haven’t any of you flown an N model Mitsubishi MU-2? I guess not.

It’s a graveyard pony.

[Golden Monkey]

Just thought I'd leap in in defence of the Piper Tomahawk. That type accounts for about 70% of my admittedly modest 110 hours but it's the plane I learnt on. When you've spent a happy half hour or so trying - at the behest of your sadistic flight instructor - to "hold the plane level in a stall with the rudder pedals" whilst going rapidly from wing drop to wing drop and into some delightful spins, every other type seems positively pedestrian! Since, I've flown Katanas, C152/C172 and Warriors all of which are considerably less "hands on". What is that you fly for, after all, if not entertainment?

[Teroc]

The Stealth Bomber...God what a dog.
Not as bad as the Aurora though, ...dont get me started on that piece of junk.

Teroc

[Tiger_ Moth]

Speedbird,
why should i WASTE £5000 or whatever on some miserable piper or cessna when i can fly what i want to right now? If i did that then with my poor financial situation Tiger Moths would be maybe 4/5 years away
Dont try to run before i can walk? thats a nice saying but it doesnt really mean much here does it? And learning on a Moth as its handling characteristics are harder than a cessna/piper would give me better handling skills.
And the Moth was designed as a trainer and so is not a bad thing to train on, its what most RAF would have trained on from 1933-45 or something so cant have been a hopeless trainer can it?
How can u compare trying to learn to fly on a Moth to the same on a Tornado? ones a purpose built trainer, ones a supersonic interceptor/bomber. Thats just stupid.

What u ve said about learning on pipers simply because i "should learn to run before i can walk" is the most frustratingly annoying piece of advice anyone has ever given me. Its not like the Moth is that hard to learn on!

[Sheep Guts]

The Cessna 207 was a big mistake. Basically a stretched C206 with no difference in the powerplant, same wings.Certified for 7 pax they are a performance trap, if you have been running around in C206s, youll honestly think youve hopped back in a Warrior on a hot day. :)
I used to watch the Kakadu Air guys, at Jabiru in the N.T. take off and take off and takeoff....Need I say any more. :)



------------------
Props are for boats!Unless its a Kingair.

[boxjockey99]

tiger_moth, I think Speedbird252 was simply saying that the piper/cessna etc trainers are a sort of generic thing that are really GOOD at demonstating a whole range of flying environments from basic VFR as in the moth up to full on sphincter clenching IFR in crap weather. You don't hear of many IFR equipped Moth's these days and lets face it there is a sizeable chunk of the PPL that must be completed with ref to instruments

I haven't flown a moth but would love to experience something like that or the Stearman. many of us learn on the old faithful 152/172/warrior and TERROR-HAWK, I know I did my PPL on all 4 types at one time or another and I think they are a really good place to start cos they gove you the all round skills. but when it comes down to it it's your hobby / career and your choice. just remember that if it is a career you are training for then perhaps the cessna/pipers are the best way to go purely because of the similarities across the range of singles and twins.

-----------------------------------------
I think that lot makes sense if it doesn't... well ignore it

[Frederic]

Golden Monkey, don't be offended. I did my PPL on a Traumahawk as well. And your first hours in an aircraft are fun anyway, no mather what aircraft it is. Arguing about what is the best or the worst aircraft in the world is like arguing over what the best food in the world is. You should always first taste it, than say your opinion about it.

[Tiger_ Moth]

And a good thing too that Moths arent equipped with IFR crap! Thats a reason why i like `em! There isnt any twiddling with knobs and pushing buttons and ......just pure fun flying. And u can still do a ppl on a Moth despite its simplicity which is also good

[Genghis the Engineer]

Jaguar.

Too complicated, too unreliable, never brought one back fully serviceable, never stopped fighting it long enough to enjoy myself, no thrust, no wing.

G

[Golden Monkey]

Frederic - Hey, I'm not offended! Just thought I'd stick my oar in and say I was quite entertained by the Traumahawk and will always look back on the plane (C-GSQR) with fondness, despite it's "eccentricities"! I'd say the "worst" I've flown is probably a 152, which seems to be the aviation equivalent of an Austin Metro. But then I have one of those too. I'll get my coat.

[Ivchenko]

Hey Tiger Moth

You're getting some good advice on this thread. If you're going to learn to fly you have to listen to people who know more about it than you do. Ignoring them or criticising them for disagreeing won't get you far...

The Tiger Moth was used as a trainer in the '30's because there was nothing better around. Would you learn to drive now in an Austin 7? Why do you think the RAF stopped using them as soon as the Chipmunk came along?

Also remember that RAF trainee pilots were flying them all day every day, which makes it much easier than you will find it.

If you want wind in the hair, low cost, "no buttons" flying, think about a three axis microlight. More hours for your pound and you can always upgrade to a full PPL later. And they fly better than a Tiger Moth!

Good luck

[nohat]

Hey TM, What have you got against buttons and knobs? Do you hate them because you find it all a bit too complicated? ;) Just remember Select, hold, trim, check, adjust.
Flying gets a whole lot simpler then. :)
Good luck.

[foxmoth]

As an instructor who flies Airbus, Pipers/cessnas, Tiger Moth and many other types I think I may be qualified to comment on this one.
Whilst the Tiger might not be the BEST handling aircraft in the world, it WILL teach you to fly well and you CAN have fun with it, it also has its own charm. As far as the American rubbish goes, these were NOT designed as teaching machines, but to get you safely from A-B with the minimum of interference from the pilot. If you want a good trainer go for the Chippie,Beagle Pup or one of the Robin trainers.
Airliners CAN be fun, its not the Aeroplane its the flying you are using it for.
As far as worst aircraft goes early Piper tricycles (Colt, Tripacer) with the connected aileron & rudder have got to be STRONG contenders.
Keep with the aircraft you enjoy and good luck.

[Speedbird252]

Thankyou BoxJockey - Im not having a go at Tigermoth, far from it - ambition is brilliant. All Im trying to say is, that if Tiger learnt to fly in a Piper or a Cessna, he`d be able to fly just about any single piston a/c with very little conversion. If he does a PPL in a Moth, thats all he will ever be able to fly, and bearing in mind we are in England, that means he will seriously be restricted to what and where he can fly.. He could do a PPL for the same money, I know he has said that he doesnt want to twiddle with knobs? Thats real nice, but his piloting skills will always remain at a bare minimum - Tiger - Please, im not having a go, I just dont want you to limit your Piloting skills.........you have loads of ambition, Yes a Moth was a trainer in the war but that was over 60 years ago. Your call. Its like wanting to be a rally driver and doing your test in an Automatic.

Please, again im just trying to get the best out of you and Im sure that im right. Learn on the Moth after, you will appreciate it more.

I think you are great with what you want to do, i really do - but i want you to think long term.

Kind Regards.

[Ivchenko]

FoxM I think your comments are spot on.

The Pup and the Chippie are excellent suggestions. If young Tiger Moth comes to his senses and does some digging around he (he's obviously male!) can find some true enthusiast instructors who will teach him to fly one of these proper aeroplanes at less per hour than school Cessna charges.

[low n' slow]

Fokker 50/ F27
It's bloody ugly! that's why! It's so noisy, you can't even sleep while sitting as pax. Of what i've heard, the crew doesn't like em either (could be wrong there...). The chairs must be the worst design ever. Ok, they'll fit more pax, but what about seating quality? apparantly not! I accidentally fell asleep one trip and leaned my head backwards. When I woke up, I thought somebody'd given me a bash with a blunt object right in the neck. Seriously, I was in pain! Damn seats. And the windows! Bloody awful them aswell. They're so low that in the effort of trying to see sommet outside of interest, you get a stiff neck/back instantly! It's absolutely hopeless, I tell you! The trick is to stay absolutelty still all way. Once you start to try and find a comfortable position, that's where you stopped enjoying the trip! The only good thing about it is that very happy feeling you get when you (while wrecking your back) see the wheels touch down!
-to all the crews of this ac who enjoy it,
I'm sorry if I've said things of which you could have taken offence
regards/lns

[foxmoth]

Speedbird252
If you learn in a Tiger moth your piloting skills will be FAR better than in a Cessna or a Piper, also it will be easy to convert to flying almost any tin can. If you have learnt on a tricycle though I would challenge you to convert to the Tiger in less than 5 hours!

[below_the_line_please]

Biggest piece of junk?

BAC One Eleven. Easiest way to turn jet fuel into noise and do little else....

Best? Tristar. Beautiful machine, real pilots aeroplane, if a little over-engineered..

Although my current 767 will do nicely thank you...

[Whirlybird]

Tiger_Moth,

How can you hate any aircraft? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif They are all different, but they are all fun - and the differences make them more fun. I learned on Traumahawks, and I don't care what anyone says; their idiosyncracies make them more fun than the totally reliable Cessnas - but total predictability is OK sometimes too. I had some great fun throwing a couple of twitchy microlights round the sky, doing a bit of gliding, trying out gyroplanes. A flight in a Pitts would have sold me on aerobatics except my stomach didn't like it. Then I discovered helicopters and got really really hooked - but still have no intention of giving up f/w flying. I too thought airliners would be boring; then a few jump seat rides with interesting takeoffs and landings, plus a lot more theoretical knowledge than I had at the beginning, convinced me otherwise. You can learn from all types of flying. And ALL flying is fun :) :) :) :) :)

Tiger_Moth, all that you're saying at the moment is theoretical; you really don't know till you fly for yourself. Be open to everything; try everything, and learn. It doesn't have to take you that long - I've only got 300 hours altogether. I have much more to learn, and will have when I've got 3,000 hours, and even 30,000. Learning is what this is all about. So get your PPL on a Tiger Moth by all means if that's what grabs you. But don't shut yourself off from everything else that you can learn, both from flying different aircraft and from people here. Because that's what you seem to be doing at the moment.

------------------
Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

[This message has been edited by Whirlybird (edited 22 April 2001).]

[Tiger_ Moth]

Thanks for the replys everyone. The thing is that I enjoy flying Moths most so that is what I should learn on. I like chipmunks (but I`ve never been in one) and would like to learn to fly in something like that, although not quite as much as in a Tiger Moth. But chipmunks are actually more expensive than the Moth I`ve found and anyway I like the Moth. Thats what PPL flyings all about: fun. Also it is not hard to convert from a Moth to a Cessna, not hard at all and as someone pointed out it would be more expensive to convert from a Cessna to a Moth than the other way round. But I would probably not want to do that as I would have more fun in a Moth. Of course, if I changed my mind it would still be easy to convert. Thanks for all the advice all the same and Speedbird I have thought very long and hard about this. What kind of a person would I be if someone on the internet could talk me into not doing my PPL on the plane I like best?
Whirlybird, I don't hate airliners as they are planes, I like them but I'd be very surprised if I had as much fun flying one of them as I did in a Moth. It's just that compared to other planes they arent as appealing to me. I'm sure I'd like gliding a lot(but not as much as the Moth) and I'm sure I'd like helicopters ( not quite as much as the Moth but a lot). However I dont have much money and couldnt afford to try all these types of aviation and I'm sure that although some of them might be very fun I would prefer a Moth. A spitfire would be GREAT but thats not being realistic. If I won the lottery then I would try every form of aviation there is: micro lights, gyro planes, helicopters, paramotors ....
But with my current budget I cant do that...

[LBM]

Cessna 152, as an instructor I have to spend 4 hrs a day in one and now i've got a square arse as the seats are so uncomfortable.

[expedite_climb]

plane ?

what plane ?

How dare you .......


It's an aeroplane - you'll do well to remember that !!!!!!!!!

[Speedbird252]

Nice one Tiger, this has been a good thread of yours. Its been good to hear various opinions, and its proved that even Im wrong sometimes :)

Whatever you do, I wish you luck and I hope you enjoy it. If your ability is anything like your enthusiasm youll be a qualified moth jockey in no time.

Let us know how it goes!!

Kind Regards, and safe flying to you.

[chicken6]

AA 1-anything (A, B or C) (2seat Grumman thing )

Not enough wing. or power. or speed. or climb angle.

and no stick. (didn't realise how much I liked sticks until I saw the other one of these threads!)

Takeoff last time I had the misfortune took 800m. C152 would have been half that. Moth - quarter it; Cub - divide by five and subtract a number.

And Tiger_Moth, don't knock anything (aeroplane type or IFR rating) until you've got it (hence I can knock AA-1s and Tomahawks). My IFR rating has helped out more times than I thought I was going to need! and it's all good insurance. The best flight I've done so far was my IFR flight test, challenging but my training carried me through. It's like your desire for a Moth PPL so you can get the hands-on flying, but it is brain-on which you have to try to understand (or believe!).

------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

[RRAAMJET]

Most pathetic airliner: the ATP ( Advanced Tech Problem ). Horrible to fly, maintain and load. Critisizing it is like tripping a dwarf....

Lightie: the Traumahawk; no guts or strength.

And then there's the F-3, but I'll let others take it from here...

[Call the tower]

Tiger_Moth

You have got to be Joking.

I would say the tiger Moth was good in it's day but not now.

Who wants to fly around in a bit of wood wrapped in cloth doing a GS of 40kts!

Sure in the 1940's they were fun but not no come on!

[Flight Safety]

I'm with The_Cowboy on this one. One of the worst airplanes has to be the MU-2.

I saw one several weeks ago that just blew me away. It was the most clean and immaculate passenger version of an MU-2 that I've ever seen. The detailing, polished metal, paint, new interior, light blue window glass, etc. was just gorgeous. I couldn't believe that someone had put that kind of money into an MU-2. All the others I have ever seen were banged up mail and freight haulers.

The accident rates are way too high for this aircraft, and they're just too demanding on the pilots, and that's why I hate them.

------------------
Safe flying to you...

[tiger burn]

controversial as I might like to be.......Having read some of the derogatory remarks made against the Tiger Moth, I wonder how many of those contributors have flown one? Do I detect a wee glimpse of the green eyed monster?

Conceptually, my pet hate must be the A380.

[Ivchenko]

Tiger Burn

This contributor has flown one.

Also > 10hrs on each of Chipmunk, Beagle Pup, Auster, most SE Cessnas, Rollason Condor, Mooney M20J, Yak 52 and 50, Bulldog and (microlight) Thruster.

The Tiger Moth was the worst, closely followed by the Condor. The Thruster was a better performer that both of those types.

Also every post re the Tiger Moth seemed informed to me.

[Deep Float]

Is it an idea to start a thread on the BEST we've flown so far? I was gonna mention as the worst as being anything with one engine, until I remembered the excellent Zlin I flew at OATS. It was only 3 hours or so, but what an aeroplane! Buckets of power, you can swing it in any attitude, built like armoured concrete and yet smooth as an airliner in level flight! And the military-style switches are so fantastically retro! Just hoping for something with turbine engines to cross my path....

[Tiger_ Moth]

Thanks for the encouragement speedbird!
I`ll let you know how it goes but due to severe financial problems I wont be starting before June at the earliest.
Deep Float, it would be a good idea to make a thread about the plane you like the best and I already have! I actually made it before this one.
Call the tower: ok the Moth is slow, you might think its ugly and you might not like the open cockpit but I like it. Its just a matter of opinion

[kennedy]

Definitely the Traumahawk is the worst I've flown (and even worse, had to instruct in)

Have flown the tigermoth (in Oz where the OAT is sensible) But the Stampe SV-4B (metric moth) was much nicer.

[TEMP0+TSRAGR]

low n' slow - The Fokker 50 is a splendid a/c - I have flown them and spent plenty of time down the back as a pax. Its 6 bladed prop makes it quiter than most jets, no vibration, superb glass flightdeck, a real challenge in a X-wind, great fun flying.

The F27 - well, I have to agree with you on that one !

[Basil]

Auster (or was it a Terrier - Auster with different donk)
Dreadful - heavy - funny flap lever - Zebedee undercarriage (OK, maybe I let the nose bounce!); but then, I only flew it once and as someone said earlier: If you fly it all the time it seems normal; used to hover-taxi the Chippy - lovely wide undercarriage - not like the Jungmann's naughty narrow track gear BUT the Bucker IS fun in the air if not on the ground.
Aren't I yacking? - "Time for bed!" said Zebedee.

[tiger burn]

Tiger Moth, have just had a thought. If you're interested, the de Havilland Moth Club is holding a Moth forum at Sywell Aerodrome May 9 - 11 & its open to anyone with an interest in them. The itin. for the 1st day is relevant to budding Moth pilots. Email me for further info.

[Dan Winterland]

The Tiger, it may not be much of a trainer by todays standards, but it is esoteric and I like them for the sheer fun. An hour in a Tiger or an hour in a C150? I know which is for me!

My worst aeroplane, probably the Jetstream 200 with Astazou engines. Over-complicated with a high wing loading and mediocre handling. The Seneca for sheer awfulness in handling, especially power is right up there at the top of the list as well.

And as for gliders, there are some real lemons out there. There was a period when anyone could design a glider and sell it with no certification. The Scheibe SF26 was awful, but the worst was the tail-less Fauvel AV36. I had to fly it 'just for the experience' on my instructor's course. You could fly along S&L, heave back on the stick and flick loop it - rolling smartly around the lateral axis in about a second and a half! A bantam-weight mate of mine managed to inadvertantly flick loop it at about 250' after a cable break on a winch launch. He was still shaking after eight pints! Last I heard of it, the club CFI had 'accidently' run over the wingtip with a tractor.



[This message has been edited by Dan Winterland (edited 01 May 2001).]

[Tiger_ Moth]

Thats very kind of you to tell me tiger burn but unfortunately I`ll be having too much fun sitting tests in school to attend!
Sywell? I thought they were at Headcorn?

[737-NG First Officer]

Airbus's He He!

[Frederic]

737-NG, and how many hours did you say you had on the Airbus again?

[Max Angle]

Has to be the Piper Tripacer. Horrid to look at, horrid to fly. All those bungies in the control runs, yuk. Best (light a/c) so far is the Chipmunk, lovely to look at and fly. A real poor mans Spitfire. As an A/C to earn a living on the A321 is very nice. Large, comfy flightdeck, very easy to operate and very stress free. Climbs like a dog when it's heavy though.

Cheers.