First Officer Limitations

[Dr Esteban]

Dear All,

I have been looking for this info on Pprune and managed to scrape a few
facts together, although I have not found a hell of a lot. However, I would
be interested in some more extensive information on F/O operating limitations
in various airlines.

As a First Officer in your airline (feel free to state the airline) what are the
limitations on;

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?

- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?

- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?

- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?

- taxiing the aircraft?

- signing the Tech log?

This thread is purely meant out of interest to hear about different policies at
different airlines. I not trying to provoke a discussion about what is right and
what is wrong and which policy is the best.

Thanks people.

The Doc.

[Intruder]

As a First Officer in your airline (feel free to state the airline) what are the
limitations on;

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?

OK Cat I; Capt all Cat II/III.


- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?

Call light/irregularity only; Captain decides/executes.


- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?

No additional limitations.


- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?

No circling.


- taxiing the aircraft?

Yes


- signing the Tech log?

No

[411A]

Lets see....

Low vis...allowed, even CATII/III.

Rejected takeoff...Captain ONLY.

Landing on contaminated runways/windshear...Captain normally allows, no company restrictions.

Circling (we are category D), yes, the First Officers do it all the time where we fly. Standard ops.

Taxiing?
No, no tiller on their side.

Signing the tech log?
Nope, not allowed. Captain ONLY.

[oceancrosser]

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?
CAPT is PF in Low vis.

- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?
CAPT decision and execution

- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?
CAPT decision

- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?
C-Airport landings CAPT only, otherwise CAPT decision

- taxiing the aircraft?
CAPT (no tiller r/h side anyway)

- signing the Tech log?
CAPT.

[Denti]

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?

CPT for landing, take off down to 400m RVR permissible for both, below that CPT only.

- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?

CPT, FO calls conditions

- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?

No limits, however the PIC allway can decide to take it for himself.

- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?

Depends, quite a lot more airfields are CPT only than in my previous airline (which was a subsidiary but had more experienced FOs). However no global ban on Cat C airfields, circlings are normal procedure and both can do it.

- taxiing the aircraft?

CPT, no tiller on the right side.

- signing the Tech log?

CPT only.

[oz in dxb]

EK Ops:

F/O take off:
20kts X/W,
RVR 500M
No operations on contaminated R/W
Reject, Capt only

F/O landing:
CAT I minimas
20kts X/W
No operations on contaminated R/W

F/O can taxi the A/C and park provided no paralex (LHS) alignment
Windshear conditions: YES

Tech Log: Capt
Circling: YES

Capt only at B* airports.

Regards,

Oz

[Mac74]

At my company (B747) the following rules for f/o's:

-Rejecting the t/o due to specific failures/warnings is allowed
-No Cat II/III approaches
-After first type conversion 15kts max x-wind during the first year.

(Other types have different rules, B777 f/o's are not allowed to reject the t/o, but are allowed cat II/III approaches, IIRC).

[Love_joy]

As a First Officer in your airline (feel free to state the airline) what are the
limitations on;

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?
As an FO I can fly down to CAT I minima, and take-off with 400m RVR. Capt only landing for CAT II/III, and take-off down to 125m RVR.

- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?
As handling pilot, I can call AND action the stop for anything up to 80kts, after 80kts, only major malfunctions or 'red' warnings - anything else and I have to query the capt for a decision. The stopping action is still mine. Once <60kts, control goes to the capt to turn us into wind.

landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?
As a new FO on type (first six months) we operate with 'half limits', head, tail and x-wind. After this restriction is lifted we operate to aircraft limits, as do the capt's. Contaminated runways are capt only (and best avoided!). Windshear is a compulsory go around, for either pilot.

- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?
Circling approaches are not terribly demanding. We tend to select PF for the leg based on which side of the flight deck you need to fly the 'visual' finals from.
CAT C, or especially demanding approaches are captain only landings - however, we have provisions for a monitored approach in the SOP's and this tends to be the norm for these so; FO flies the approach, Capt takes control for landing OR decides on a go-around which is then flown by FO.

- taxiing the aircraft?
Capt only with my airline, we only have a single tiller on the capt side.

- signing the Tech log?
Capt only, although can be completed by FO.

[Dr Esteban]

Thanks for all the replies!

Interesting to see the differences in policy with the various airlines.

@ Love_joy: When referring to windshear I meant take-off/landing at an
airport where windshear is reported not an actual windshear warning in
the flightdeck, that must be a compulsory go-around at most airlines.

Looking at the above examples do you guys and gals think a flightdeck
should be operated man-boy or should it be more equal nowadays?

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Which company has policy of FO handling from left seat, and if so under what conditions.

In regard to Man / Boy / Dog... this is a totally different can of worms...

glf

[safetypee]

I am amazed by the restrictive development opportunities for First Officers as indicated above.
From my experience with one operator, First Officer participation was permitted in all operations at the Captain’s discretion. This recognised both the range of differing abilities of the First Officers and those of the Captains in performing ‘instructional’ duties short of formal training. I add that it was a small operation where knowledge of crew’s ability was known and tracked.

Our industry allows and depends on in-service training. The formal or more extreme situations are usually trained with an instructor (no pax) or in a simulator, but the extensive range of ‘normal’ operations that all pilots should be exposed to in order to develop their expertise and skills (to become a Captain) must come from everyday operations, e.g. crosswinds, low visibility, circling, difficult airports.
If we don’t allow First Officers to experience this wide range of situations and the multitude of decision options and skills required within them, then how can the industry expect improve expertise and professionalism.
Perhaps we are already seeing the effects of this policy where crews depend on automation or have difficulty in managing the unusual or in some cases not so unusual situations.

There is an interesting view of operations (which I support) in ‘Eliminating "cockpit-caused" accidents’. (http://s92270093.onlinehome.us/CRM-Devel/resources/paper/last/last.htm)
Perhaps the industry should consider these aspects so that we don’t run out of suitably experienced Captains.
If not, then either we have to understand how experience may the gained / taught without being exposed to situations, or perhaps the industry needs to change the premises of a two crew operation, interaction with automation, and a First Officer’s capability for intervention / recovery in extreme situations.

[Carnage Matey!]

As a First Officer in your airline (feel free to state the airline) what are the
limitations on;

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?
FO to Cat 1 limits only.

- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?

FO may call and and execute for specified conditions/failures.

- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?

FO's limited to two third of aircraft x-wind limits, but no further restrictions.


- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?

Captains landings only at Cat C airfields, no restrictions on circling.

FOs can taxi the aircraft but only captains may sign the Tech Log.

[Love_joy]

@ Love_joy: When referring to windshear I meant take-off/landing at an
airport where windshear is reported not an actual windshear warning in
the flightdeck, that must be a compulsory go-around at most airlines.

Why depart at all if Wind Shear is being reported??

Interestingly, my current type does not have an automated windshear alerting system. The previous did.

FO permitted to fly the approach, even if WS being reported.

[mrwebs]

As a First Officer in your airline (feel free to state the airline) what are the
limitations on;

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?
Capt Only for cat II/III

- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?

Either can call, f/o can initiate (cancel power, select reverse) but Capt MUST take control.

- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?

FO's limited to 10 knots xwind component, capt only for windshear and contaminated runways and for any destinations nominated capt only in ops manual)


- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?

F/os can circle, and do so quite well!

no tiller on P2 side, but Capt only as policy
Capt signs techlog and all other legal docs.

[Takeoff53]

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?
Cat I and Nonprecision: F/O flying and landing, could be also a monitored approach where F/O flies and Capt lands
Cat II: F/O flying, Capt lands if conditiones are met at minimum, otherwise if Capt is NOT calling my controls, the F/O executes the Goaround
Cat III: Capt only (Aircraft is equipped with HUGS on left side only, Cat III APPR are handflown with HUGS, no autoland)

- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?
Takeoff is always performed by PF but thrust-levers handled only by the Capt. F/O shall call out any abnormal situation, Capt decision. If the takeoff has to be aborted, this is an automated handoff to the Capt

- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?
F/O may fly the whole envelope of the A/C limitation, no restrictions, however Capt decision as always.
(As lowtime and young F/O I flew sometimes with great Captains who liked to hand over the A/C to me and let me fly something a bit more challenging approaches, helping out if needed or giving positive verbal inputs. Thats the way to become Capt later on and it's the same what I liked to do with younger F/O's to get them the most out of every flight. The best boost of convidence for any young F/O was the day I left the cockpit for a short trip to the restroom. Always big grin when I came back....)

- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?
Some airports restricted to be flown by Capt. Otherwise many F/O's fly circlings just perfect and anybody else will get better by doing it.

- taxiing the aircraft?
Tiller only on Capt side only, however as the A/C can be steered to a certain angle by the pedals, the F/O CAN technically taxi on a somehow straight taxiway (not an official procedure but as well not forbidden....)

- signing the Tech log?
PF for the next leg does the walk around, checks the logs, makes entries but must be signed by Capt.

[groundfloor]

Below 500 feet ceiling and 2000m vis as well as all non procedural approaches a monitored approach is carried out ie: co-pilot fly`s the a/c heads down whilst the boss is looking for the runway - once runway in sight boss takes over and lands.

Low visibilty take-offs Capts only.

No crosswind limits, taxi leg for leg.

Challenging Airports..Leg for leg.

1st Officers and 2nd Officers sign for gas, Boss signs loadsheet flight reports and for beer....sometimes:}.

[varigflier]

At my airline it's a joke. Talking on the radio is about all F/Os can do. And this is a large South American airline.

[Panama Jack]

As a First Officer at Gulf Air the limitations on;

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?
Unless the Captain is incapacitated or is a TRI or TRE, any takeoff or landing with a cloud base below 500' AGL and/or Vis less than 1500m is Captain only takeoff/landing.

- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?
Captain only.

- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?
Unless the Captain is incapacitated or is a TRI or TRE, surface Cross-wind component shall not exceed 15 knots. Runway shall not be contaminated. There is no published restriction on FO's conducting approaches where windshear has been reported.

- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?
Our previous edition of the Operations Manual had a restriction on FO's conducting takeoffs and landings at Cat C airfields. This verbage is now absent, with the exception of one airfield briefing (Kathmandu) where the Captain must conduct the takeoff or landing (unless, incapacitated, of course). Having said that I expect that most Captains still apply the previous interpretation.

- taxiing the aircraft?
No, unless Captain is incapacitated.

- signing the Tech log?
Not the Tech Log, but the First Officer signs the Aircraft Cabin Log.

[Takeoff53]

@Varigflier

Your post
At my airline it's a joke. Talking on the radio is about all F/Os can do. And this is a large South American airline
is not showing great confidence into the F/O's. But this is mostly not a problem produced by the F/O's, it's just poor training and a airline philosophy from the ice age. However, I assume you have been checked for the whole program in the sim?
How shall the F/O take care of the ship if the old guy gets incapacitated? This is one of the tasks an F/O has positively to perfom during line intro, otherwise no line check (company standart, not only my opinion)
(I remember a F/O during line intro, who immediately took the mike to declare an emergency after I explained him, that we will now simulate my incapacitation and he has to bring the a/c back home alone. A split second after my first little shock I realised, that he had just before silently switched the radio to a blind freq. LOL together and he did a brilliant job during the rest of the game)

[Tail-take-off]

UK A320 operator

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?

Take-off:
only captains have been sim trained to carry out take-offs in 125m RVR so SFO minima = applicable minima or 150m whichever greater, FOs = double that

Landing:
Only Captains complete Autoland training as PF. SFO = applicable minima. FOs should not fly the approach when close to minima but how close not specified.


- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?

Captain holds Thrust Levers on all take-offs & makes all decisions to stop.


- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?

SFO AFM limits
FO 2/3 X AFM limit


- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?

Where weather is a factor Captains & SFOs only.


- taxiing the aircraft?

FOs & SFOs can taxi but Captain must park the aircraft.


- signing the Tech log?

FO/SFOs can sign for fuel, oil & hydraulic levels as well aspre-flight inspection.
Not surprisingly the captain must sign the captains acceptance & post flight certification.

[varigflier]

Takeoff 53 I totally agree with you and if something happens to the captain, the F/O is expected to do everything and save the day. The mentality here will not change anytime soon. Sim training and checkrides are a joke. Very low standards.

[slast]

As the author of "Eliminating Crew-Caused Accidents" I'm pleased to know it is still being read years after my retirement! I am thinking of updating and reissuing it as the industry does not seem to have changed much in the last 10 years or so. It's depressing that on re-reading it I realise it is mostly only the accident references that need updating, and in some areas the situation may be getting worse.

This is somewhat off-topic (although the subject of "First Officers sectors" gets a whole appendix to itself in the paper) , but it still seems crazy that we have the situation where the industry spends scarce resources on CRM training to encourage pilots to delegate the flying tasks when managing high workload and non-normal situations, and widely recognises the benefits of delegated flying procedures ("monitored approach") when really poor weather is predicted, but then ignores the fact that these go hand in hand: we should be doing this ALL THE TIME. Then we won't see the situations where pilots are "caught out" in adverse situations developing bit by bit (the most common cuasae or "crew error" accidents) or weather that's worse than expected, by inadequate company SOPs - and then blamed for mis-judgements or other mistakes. There is a cost-free alternative which produces overall far more reliable crew performance, leading to fewer money-losing (and in the worst case life-destroying) errors.
Steve Last

[bfisk]

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?
No, the skipper will be PF.


- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?
Call for, yes, executing, only in the event of incapacitation.


- landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?
Limited crosswind for first 6months.


- challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?
Yes


- taxiing the aircraft?
Yes


- signing the Tech log?
No

[Adrian Cronauer]

Talking on the radio is about all F/Os can do. And this is a large South American airline

Matey. My airlines got some of those South American Pilots. Captains in fact. Some even had real type-ratings. Some didn't. Most of them can just barely talk on a radio. But, they do a grand job of running off runways into the muck and weeds!!!

[9.G]

Slast,
read the booklet, great peace of research performed indeed. Very useful and should find a broad recognition along with the implementation, IMHO. Methinks some of the Asian carriers did implement this concept for adverse weather as well as for LVO. Does perfectly make sense to me. As you said requires a reboot of the folks in charge. Thanks. :ok:

[iflytb20]

- operating as Pilot Flying in Low Vis conditions (take-off/approach/landing)?
We don't have clearance for Low Vis ops yet and are restricted to CAT I Ops only. So no restriction for the FO.

- calling for and executing a Rejected Take-off?
BOTH can callout but reject decision is with the Capt. The only obvious exception being P1 Incapacitation ;)

landing/take-off in adverse weather conditions, eg. x-wind/contaminated
runways/wind shear/etc?
No Assisted Take-off & Landing in Adverse weather. In other words, Capt is PF.

challenging/demanding approaches like circling approaches/Cat C airfields?
No restriction on circling approaches but Critical airfields [as per company policy] are Capt only.

taxiing the aircraft?
Depends on the acft. Half have tillers and half dont. If the tiller is installed, no restriction.

signing the Tech log?
Capt only, but is usually completed by FO.

[slast]

9.G - you said <should find a broad recognition along with the implementation>

One interesting aspect is that I had good connections in the industry when I wrote it. The board of IFALPA endorsed it and supported me in making presentations all over the place (I had held 2 IFALPA board member positions and was a rep for 30 years).

For example I was asked by Boeing's top guy (VP in charge of all commercial aircraft airline relations and certification) to do a presentation to their senior engineers and test pilots. It was very well received to the extent that they asked me to stay and repeat it the next day for another group. General reaction was that something along these lines urgently needed to be done, apart from anything else Boeing's reputation gets damaged when there's an accident involving one of their aircraft. (I was actually at a tech meeting and having breakfast with Boeing's chief human factors engineer when the news came in of the KAL Guam accident and I remember his face turning grey).

Anyway, the only ones who did not react well were some of the test pilots who also do initial training for customer airlines (i.e. they train the airline's instructors and managers) who were of the view that
(1) we should train every pilot to be able to do everything necessary to fly the airplane
(2) we only provide procedures telling you "how to make it work"
(3) it's not our responsibility to recommend to customer airlines how to go about their business on a day to day basis.

(1) and (2) lead to the basic manufacturer's ops manual being laid out with columns labelled with a mixture of Captain OR Pilot Flying on the left and First Officer OR PNF on the right. Most airlines then just reproduce this and will often say "It is the manufacturer's RECOMMENDED procedure that normally the Captain should be the PF for the whole flight". Obviously the manufacturers aren't going to tell them that they shouldn't do that, despite their view at (3)!

Similarly elsewhere - ICAO and others who have studied the subject agree but no-one has authority to direct a general change.

[Bullethead]

With the mob I fly for Captains and First Oficers are required fly to the same standards in the simulator, i.e. the environmental limits of the aeroplane, the only difference being that the Captains are always PF for the lo-vis stuff and RTOs.

There are however limits for First Officers for line operations which are more restrictive and which I believe are due to liability and insurance considerations.

In a case of a Captain suffering incapacitation then the First Officer is fully capable of operating the aeroplane to it's limits.

Been there done that when a Captain I was flying with suffered a kidney stone attack en-route and I had to complete the approach and landing in conditions which were right on charted minima but well below normal First Officer approach minima.

Regards,
BH.