NAV & LOGO lights operation during DAY light

[kuwait340]

Hello

i have seen many pilots having the aircraft nav and logo lights switched ON during the day light.

i made my research but found nothing on this subject.

in my opinion, switching them ON during day light will only use the light it self without showing anything to anybody.

i recall one of my instructors telling me if it is a day flight, i should switch them ON at the begining of the sun set.

or if it is night flight, i should switch them OFF 1/2 after the sun rise.

the reason for my question is many times we found that the one of the nav lights being u/s when we need to use it for the night flight !

appreciate all inputs.

Regards

[EMIT]

Logo lights are useless during daytime, nobody sees them.

NAV lights ON during daytime on the ground can serve the purpose of indicating to people around the aircraft that its electrical system is powered up, indicating that people are at work in the aircraft. This may help in estimating the risk of working on and around the aircraft.

[Cyclone733]

Nav/logo lights can be useful in low visibility conditions eg mist/fog

On the other hand it can be a case of turning them on and forgetting to turn them off, or turning them on immediately to avoid forgetting to turn them on.

[PT6A]

Our SOP's say that NAV light are on anytime the aircraft is powered.

Wing lights are on before engine start and below FL100 daytime at night they stay on.

Logo light night time ops only.

[kuwait340]

thank you very much guys,

it makes more sense to me now.

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

Was told a long time ago by a senior engeneer that he would probably never have to replace a bulb if us pilots would stop switching the bloody things on and off.
Whadya think? Saving electricity or something ?

[FLX/MCT]

On the A320 you have a combined switch for the NAV and LOGO lights. Are the logo-lights always on, when this switch is engaged or is there a seperate logic for the illumination ot the tail?


regards,

Luke

[TopSwiss 737]

If I remember correctly, on the A320 family the logo lights are illuminated with the NAV lights switched on and the aircraft is on ground (weight on wheels) or when the flaps are out of up.

[Techman]

....................

[FLX/MCT]

If I remember correctly, on the A320 family the logo lights are illuminated with the NAV lights switched on and the aircraft is on ground (weight on wheels) or when the flaps are out of up.


That makes sense!

Thanks for your answer TopSwiss 737 :ok:

[FlightDetent]

If I remember correctly, on the A320 family the logo lights are illuminated with the NAV lights switched on and the aircraft is on ground (weight on wheels) or when the flaps are out of up. I gladly admit not having an idea that such logic even existed. Never too late to learn I checked FCOM (1.33.20 p4) for more. Technically speaking it says "flaps are extended to at least 15°".

Further reading (1.27.50 p5) revealed that F=1 is 10° (319/20/21), and F=2 is 15° (319/20), or 14° (321).

Interestingly, this would mean that for 1+F departures logo will go out upon liftoff for 319/20 and the same applies for CF 2 departure on a 321.

Pictures I could find :

Swiss A319 (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Swiss-International-Air/Airbus-A319-112/0603781/L/)
TAP 320 (http://www.airliners.net/photo/TAP-Portugal/Airbus-A319-111/0873899/L/)

But can anybody tell if the Swiss is really 1+F as opposed to TAP being CF 2 ?

[goeasy]

The filament heat cycles, is also why I hate seeing people turn taxi light off when stopped, then on again, off again etc if moving in a queue. Just wastes good money for no benefit. Who cares if the taxi light stays on while you are stationary?

[cessna24]

Inop NAV lights according to the A320 MEL states that you can only fly daylight hours. So no night time flying. Logo Lights are not mandatory as I understand it. An ADD can be raised which I think gets the 120 days limit if they are inop.

Some Air traffic controllers comment to pilots about not having logo lights on but i believe that is for only helping them see the a/c on the ground.

c24

[h3dxb]

Here the one and only true word , don't nail me on the A330 AMM

When you set the toggle switch 3LA to the ON-1 (ON-2) position the logo lights come on automatically with the
NAV1 (NAV2) lights during the subsequent flight phases:
- taxiing,
- take off,
- landing
When you set the toggle switch 'NAV/LOGO' 3LA to the ON-1 (ON-2) position, the relay 4LA (5LA) energizes
and supplies 28VDC to relay 3LY. The ground signal is supplied from two sources
Landing Gear Control and Interface Unit (LGCIU) 5GA2, when the landing gear struts are compressed (e.g.
taxiing),
and/or
Slat Flap Control Computer (SFCC) 21CV (22CV), when the flaps are lowered to 15 degrees or more (e.g.
take-off, landing).

The use of NAV/LOGO lights is advised by the authority.

rgds

[ACMS]

What ever happened to a switch with "on" and "off"

Why are things so complicated?

[Admiral346]

The filament heat cycles, is also why I hate seeing people turn taxi light off when stopped, then on again, off again etc if moving in a queue. Just wastes good money for no benefit. Who cares if the taxi light stays on while you are stationary?

It is in my OM-B that the taxi light has a max of 10 minutes when stopped due to overheating. So it should be switched off when stopping, latest after 10 minutes. I have wondered about this making sense, but then I really don't care. They want me to do it, I'll do it!

Nic

[FlightDetent]

Nic: That's on the CRJ, right? Although the thread starter did not specify I thought he was referring to Toulouse family where in the book it is not. I'm genuinely curious if you had that in your long haul days. Not that it may had not been substantial; although I struggle to find any cooling effect in 40° taxi or v.v. overheat in -5˜° holding. OTOH, once engineers require then it is settled.

FD (the un-real)

[h3dxb]

Hi ACMS.

This >>old<< on/off is over now :8
today the plane is designed to reduce workload of pilots.......

even the coffemaker is not a simple onn/off.

Next generation is Startrek and I get the tricorder (hopefully):ok:

[muduckace]

It is international procedure to turn the taxi light on to indicate the aircraft is going to move or is in movement and off when stationary. It is a safety procedure. Many just neglect it.

[Pilot Pete]

It is international procedure Are you sure? I thought it was just an ICAO recommendation, which had not become procedure yet......

Do you have a reference? Cheers.

PP

[Dani]

Then Asia definetly doesn't belong to ICAO :}

They even switch on all the lights (incl landing lights) when they enter the RWY, even if they don't move and haven't received any clearance to move.

Re the Airbus thing: I think that there are different versions: Older Airbusses had the NAV or logo switch while newer MSNs react on the input of gear and/or flaps extension. Check your local FCOM...

Dani

[NO LAND 3]

Correct procedure depends on operators and manufacturers policy.
There is no international policy regarding taxi light operation. I find stationary aircraft easier to spot if they leave them on. However I do know of one Euro airport where service vehicles are not allowed to cross the apron when an a/cs taxi light is on .
In my opinion nav lights are best left on. Saves having to remember them, particularly on those high latitude flights.

[compressor stall]

Back to Nav lights

In Australia, according to CASA reg CAR196 (I think), nav lights must be on at all times in flight.

I am not sure how that works with say PA44 operators when the nav lights are on the 3 greens are dimmed so much that you cannot see them by day.... :}

[NO LAND 3]

"In Australia..."
Ha ha; oh, if I had a dollar for every time...!
Kind of like an aviation Galapagos Islands, it has a evolved differently to the rest of the world due to its isolation. I am joking of course, but you have to admit there is a grain of truth to it with regards the beaurocracy!
I recall an occasion during a stint in G/A after leaving the military (where policy was nav lights stay on) a colleague was off on his first job in a Seneca (I think). He came up on the company frequency saying "Help! I can't get a gear down indication". Spent 20 minutes cycling the gear and generally troubleshooting before the Chief Pilot came in, yawned, then picked up the mic and said " you wouldn't have your nav lights on by any chance would you?".

"Er, yeah....Oh!"

[compressor stall]

Yep, I thoroughly agree there. Been there done that (except I worked it out myself!)

No need to liken oz to the Galapagos - look at our own fauna that's evolved in isolation. Mammals that lay eggs for god's sake! Maybe Oz aviation suffers from the Australia Effect!:p

As for our rules, there are many many ones where the rest of the world sees it practically. Mind you there are a couple of rules here (like no mandatory Alternates) that allow aviation to continue unabated...!