Taking children in your own plane - divorced parents

[vanHorck]

I am divorced and my children are now 12 and 10

In Holland both parents remain full parents with parental rights and obligations after a divorce. There is no such thing as a higher authority between the two.

In theory it means both parents after their divorce should make efforts to agree on the key issues in education such as school choices, home moves etc.
Apart from these key joint decisions each parents has the rights and obligations when the kids are under his/her control for the day to day affairs.

In my case my ex is afraid of flying and we have not managed to find a reasonable way of agreeing things regarding the kids.

So I was told "I was not allowed" to take them flying, although of course it is not her decision to make.

Nevertheless, I did not take them up, simply because I would have to walk on eggs and at the same time, I felt they were too young to enjoy it anyway and I still wanted to get better at what I do in the air.

Do more (divorced) parents have issues between them about taking the kids flying and how have they dealt with this?

[effortless]

In the UK, though there may be joint custody, one parent retains "care and control". I am aware of one parent who has not been able to take his sons gliding. This despite the fact that both sons ad been gliding with him for some time before the divorce. He had to capitulate because he was reluctant to put any more stress on his realtionship with the mother of his children.

My ex was only too happy for me to involve my sprogs in dangerous sports including gliding and rock climbing. All I had to do was keep on paying the mortgage for her and her new husband.:rolleyes:

[Will Hung]

You're lucky !!! Here in good ole England, a father is treated as a wart on the Ar$£^*le of society if that's how the so called "mother" wants it to be !!!

[TheGorrilla]

Get the kids to badger the mother into letting them join the air cadets! Then she'll have no choice!

[IO540]

I had exactly the same problem, vanHorck.

I got legal advice on it. The answer (UK law) was that when the child is with one parent or the other, the other parent has NO say in what the other parent does.

If a divorced woman (with, as usual, child custody) objects to her ex husband taking the kids for a flight, she has two options:

1) p*ss in the wind

2) get a court injunction to prevent the father from taking the kids for a flight

The injunction would almost certainly be refused because it is unreasonable. Taking a kid to a strip club, or watching dogging... (sorry, a popular English past-time) that would be tricky.

Of course she has a 3rd option, frequently exercised by divorced women with sole child custody, which is to get revenge by messing with contact. This is a tough one, because if she is determined there isn't much one can do about it without going for a court order fast. You turn up at the house at the agreed time, ring the bell, and there is nobody there. After a few months of this, it will be hard to get an order because she can claim that since the kids have not seen the father for X months, they would be emotionally disturbed if they saw him. And, hey ho, hey ho, the court always acts in the interests of the children ;) One has to nip this kind of thing in the bud FAST, before it is too late.

My ex threatened that unless I did as she said, she would move away and I would not see the kids again. I doubted she actually would have done so but she was pretty aggressive and I decided that it was not a battle worth fighting, so I would always have a co-pilot (her demand). This was a huge hassle, of course, because co-pilots are hard to find unless one is going somewhere "nice" and (in some cases) I pay for his food and hotel room as well.

However, very recently, she was evidently desperately keen to go out on a date and asked me if I would have my son (12) for the day, but I was going for a flight, and guess what? The date was more important to her, so she let it go. After that, she could not go back so that battle has been won :ok: So, wait for an opportunity :)

This seems to be a very common problem for divorced men who fly.

[vanHorck]

Yap IO, the option nr 3, basically not allowing the kids to visit their dad is the bad one also here in NL.

U males have got it bad. In Holland at least Alimony is well enforced (and rightly so) but a mother refusing to let her kids go see their father is an option.

Until the courts immediately put a large fine on their refusal to let the kids visit, there will be many mums refusing to let their kids fly without a right to do so...

The example you gave on her wanting you to have the kids cos of her date sounds like my wife!

You re sure we re not both x-es of the same!? Jeezz we had bad taste!

;)

[Fuji Abound]

You re sure we re not both x-es of the same!? Jeezz we had bad taste!

You mean you two were once married .. .. .. :)

you seem to me to get on pretty well on this forum.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

So I was told "I was not allowed" to take them flying, although of course it is not her decision to make.
Not sure that being divorced is the major factor here - the same occurs between married parents.

[vanHorck]

Gertrude

True, but the divorced father is more likely to suffer dire consequences if he persists in his intentions (i.e. not seeing his kids anymore)

[kevinsky18]

I'm from Canada and yes men here too get kicked in the nuts when it comes to child custody issues.

I had the same round of disputes with my X. She said I was absolutely not to take my son, then 4 or 5, flying.

I took him flying anyways and he really enjoyed it. I snapped a few pictures of him having a good time.

She threatened to take it to court, I just smiled and said see you there. It was one of the few times she couldn't get a lawyer to take up her case. It was just plain and simple not winnable.

As my lawyer said, "If you're licenced and legal to go flying she can't tell you can't take him flying any more than she can say you can't take him for a car ride."

In other words there is no discernable difference between a personal car and a personal airplane in the eyes of the court.

She tried to inject ideas like, oh he’s scared of flying, he doesn’t like the noise etc. All of these were her fears not his and even if he was a bit timid the argument still doesn’t hold. If a child is scared of riding in a car for no good reason you can’t force the parents to walk everywhere. It’s the boogie man in the closet thing. Sooner or later the child needs to face those fears, either by sleeping in their bed alone or going for a car/plane ride.

15 years later my son enjoys going up for rides and often takes the controls under my supervision as he hasn’t gotten his licence yet. His two half siblings from his mothers second marriage won’t get into the plane even on the ground as they think it’s going to spontaneously explode (guess where they got those ideas from.)

There is distinction between being amicable for the sake of the children and giving up on your ideals and values. I would say that if flying is your true passion and what defines your character and person then to agree not to involve your children is the later.

[IO540]

You re sure we re not both x-es of the same!? Jeezz we had bad taste!

No, the problem is that we were both men, probably in their 30s :) Men don't get clued up on obscure things like relationships (what's that???) until they reach 40.

[Chilli Monster]

Living over 200 miles (by road) from the ex and kids, she's only too happy for me to pick them up by air - saves her driving half way :)

[Jackboot]

The embittered partner can apply for a Prohibitive Steps Order to stop the children flying.

It is a blanket restriction if granted ie not directed at any one person.

I have first hand experience of this. My partners kids cannot fly in light aircraft.

All the applicant needs to do is convince the court that they are genuinely in fear of flying and will suffer extreme anxiety if the children flew in a small plane.

Hey, I didint fly in anything until I was 23 so the kids have a lot to look forward to.

More if you PM me.

JB

[IO540]

This is a significant thread drift :) but the tactic for men here is to make oneself somehow "useful" to the ex, so she has an incentive to co-operate on contact matters.

Being a single mother is damned hard work - even when the ex is paying loads of maintenance. Not too bad if you are an "earth mother" type who never wanted to go out to work anyway (those types make the hardest divorces) but much harder for a woman with intelligence and initiative who wants to get out and about and do something constructive.

Most divorced women with kids are bitter and spiteful, not least because they perceive themselves as having got a raw deal, while their ex husband can fly around in planes, and hit the internet dating sites. The fact that he also has to go to work is irrelevant... "men live for their job after all".

If you can have the kids over quite a lot, then she has time to go out and have a life, it won't cost her anything, and she doesn't have to trust some dim 18 year old babysitter who doesn't care about the kids and just wants to go clubbing and get her ankles behind her ears. In return, she won't be anywhere near such a bitch. Well, she might still be a bitch :) but self interest will always win in the end.

How to structure all this.... tricky! One needs to live in reasonable proximity, for a start.

Maybe somebody will write it all up on some website... a step by step guide to getting divorced without driving oneself around the bend.

All the applicant needs to do is convince the court that they are genuinely in fear of flying and will suffer extreme anxiety if the children flew in a small plane.Would that not be difficult if the child actually wants to fly, and has flown previously?

I am assuming the father has actually got a lawyer, a real male lawyer, not some modern left wing liberal wimp from a company which is a member of that trade association called the SFLA :)

Example: my ex mandated a co-pilot. Then, what does she do? She takes them to the USA, and they go up for a heli trip around the Grand Canyon. A 2-pilot helicopter? Yeah, right, and I am the Pope. An aircraft with about 5,235 single points of failure, any of which is a certain death. Then, to top it all, she instructs the boys to not tell me :) :) And I still didn't push it after that - because the 12 year old was too scared of her; she is his mum after all, feeds him and clothes him. It was not for another year that that she relented.

[BabyBear]

Hey IO540, sounds like you could be doing with having a word with a friend of mine. He would sort your problem, for a small fee.:)

[Pace]

I felt they were too young to enjoy it anyway and I still wanted to get better at what I do in the air.

VanHorck

I too am divorced, married and had kids young. My son started flying with me at the young age of four. My wife left for a better life and left me with my Son and daughter (she is still searching for that better life having ruined me financially and I still get a call every week about how unhappy she is).
My son was 14 at the time.

Fact is that my son against all my advice went straight from school with a PPL into flying. He went straight through CTC and still at the age of 21 was contracted with Easy Jet. He flies as a first officer on 737s still only 22 and on a fantastic salary for a guy of his age.

So NO they are not too young :)

Pace

nb was the best thing she did as I have had a great time with flying and more women than I dare mention so look on the positive side.

[vanHorck]

Good post Pace!

A positive story.

I guess for all of us we walk a tight rope with our exes and the decision can go both ways depending on how the tightrope balances.

Right now I ve finally convinced her to accept mediation so that we can go to a normal contact, which I think is essential for the kids happiness. When that works, I will raise the issue of flying with me. The kids are keen enough so no issue there, but the overriding drive is to maximize normality for the kids first.

And it could well be that I start off with flying them including a P2 initially

[Pace]

And it could well be that I start off with flying them including a P2 initially

Van

That is my one reservation as your kids are the most precious of cargo.

In an aircraft they are totally reliant on you should you get it wrong or become unwell.

Taking them up with a safety pilot with more experience could be a way for you to convince your ex that all is well.

When you feel more experienced and comfortable by then I am sure she will too and you can start flying them on your own.

Pace

[IO540]

A safety pilot may be a good idea, but if you have an airplane-mad kid, why not let him do some flying. It won't take a huge amount of informal instruction to enable somebody to fly somewhere (on the GPS moving map) and get the plane down. Obviously a 5 year old can't, but plenty of schools have been doing the informal "co-pilot" courses whose objective is just that. I am certain my 12 year old could do it, and walk away, and he's had only a few flight in the RH front seat.

[Pace]

10540

I only suggested the safety pilot as Van indicated his lack of experience and a possible P2.

This maybe behind the exes concerns! Wives current or exes tend to know their husbands their weaknesses too :) Hence they tend to be less confident being flown by their own than by a total stranger who may be a far worse pilot.

To get the ball rolling it could be diplomatic to add the P2 as a stepping stone to solo flights.

Pace

[vanHorck]

Obviously thats the plan.

I don't worry about my flying skills. I ve flown all over Europe and safely, including my share of emergencies.

In due course I will first take them up with a P2 on short trips, then a longer one (perhaps to their granddad in France), then just with me when I know they re happy flying and when I know their mother has relaxed.

On a good day I see no objections whatsoever to let them handle the controls in level flight for a bit if they want to try.

[IO540]

Different pilots will be able to use different "levers".

I banged about various stuff, like having both CAA and FAA Class 1 medicals and having had more ECGs than hot dinners. She thought that only people dying with a heart attack have an ECG...

The difficulty with a P2 pilot is that the "child" may never get a chance to learn to fly, because very few pilots are willing to sit in the back! Even enroute. And in many planes one cannot transfer front-back. Also many pilots are much too large to be able to transfer. I found a couple, over several years. Bizzarely, the ex was OK with the P2 sitting in the back.

[RatherBeFlying]

I had my older boy up several times from the age of two and a bit. He was an enthusiastic participant, but once got worried on an overwater approach -- also could lose breakfast on crosswind landings during the flare. Child seats are good for protecting the a/c interior if not the sprog exterior;)

Ex was quite objectionable for many years -- as they tend to be:=

But never made fuss about taking kids flying -- major obstacle was lack of funds:{

[Pace]

The difficulty with a P2 pilot is that the "child" may never get a chance to learn to fly, because very few pilots are willing to sit in the back! Even enroute. And in many planes one cannot transfer front-back. Also many pilots are much too large to be able to transfer. I found a couple, over several years. Bizzarely, the ex was OK with the P2 sitting in the back.

Depends who is paying for the flight.

Many younger penniless pilots are happy to go along in the back with the promise of a leg.

Older more experienced pilots dont need to be up front. I have often gone along as P2 with an inexperienced pilot and have been quite happy to sit in the back and let them show off their skills to Kids/Girlfriends/friends up front.

Pay the pilot and you can tell him to sit on the tail :)

10540 yes in many light aircraft a pilot in the back would not be able to get to the front and could only give verbal advice.

Pace

[IO540]

Many younger penniless pilots are happy to go along in the back with the promise of a leg

Care to re-phrase that one, Pace? ;)

[Pace]

Suppose it depends who you put in the back with them and what sort of leg.

The leg with two hold ups en route springs to mind. But heck forget the flying they can go up front especially cruising at 5280 feet :) is that supposed to be statute or nautical?

Pace

[Jackboot]

The Exosaurus wants revenge.

Relating the story of somebody I know pretty well.....

How better than to spend time, effort and money convincing a Judge that the partner who jilted him shouldn't share something exciting with the kids that her new partner does and the exosaurus didn't?

Hypocricy rules big time because it is of course OK for the Exosaurus to put the kids on the back of a powerful motorbike or in the back of an old open topped banger with no seat belts, tear around on motorbikes themselves without safety kit, drive cars around the field, share trampolines with others ( big risk there!), 2 in the front passenger seat of Exosaurus' sports car with one belt around them...thats all OK. Flying is dangerous though...............

As I've said - its no bad thing for a kid to wait. A pity though when the opportunity is there now.

Jack

[Deeday]

After reading this thread, I can't help wondering: is it that, somehow, divorce rates among pilots are higher than for other groups of professionals - or amateurs? Or maybe it's just my impression?

Deeday

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I've noticed lots of talking about divorce on other sites relating to other professions ...

Here's a theory: There's lots of talk about divorce on web sites because divorced people have more time to sit in front of a computer.

(FTAOD: the above is a theory. I have absolutely nothing that could be described as scientific evidence for it.)

[fernytickles]

I wonder if there are many (any?) divorced female pilots who suffer the same problem? It sounds more like a control issue than a genuine fear of aviating?

Alternatlively, are there things that the mother would like to have the children do, but the father vetos?

I wonder how the mother would feel if it was suggested the children are flown by a female pilot, not necessarily someone emotionally involved in any way with the father. Wimmen sometimes trust other wimmen more than men....?

[Radar]

Alternatlively, are there things that the mother would like to have the children do, but the father vetos?


Yup !!

Hitting the high street with Daddy's credit card !

[BeechNut]

I am still currently married and have had this issue. My kids are all teens now and only one is interested in flying. But when younger all invariably came for rides from time to time.

The only stipulation was that I was not allowed to take all 3 up at the same time. "I want to have something to live for if you crash" was the reason.

I thought and said, "fair enough, the accident rate on the road to the airport is indeed pretty bad..."

In any event I preferred taking them up one at a time, I could give them my undivided attention. By 12 years old my kids could all hold an altitude and heading to within +/- 50 ft and 5 deg.

I remember two flights in particular, took my two oldest up in the Cherokee I had at the time, independently. I was testing routes for an upcoming Young Eagles event. This was back in 2001. Oldest was 11, second oldest 9. I climbed out to 2000 ft, gave them the controls (sitting on cushions), gave them a heading and told them to keep 2000 ft. Each heading I gave them, they rolled out to within 5 deg. Maintained altitude flawlessly. Flew me home right onto downwind.

To them it was just another big flight sim game :)

We had great fun! Too bad so many ex's are control freak b!tches!

Beech

[vanHorck]

Fernytickles

I think it s a control issue.

It's far easier for the "controlling parent" to prevent children from seeing the other parent than it is for the Alimony paying parent to have this decision enforceably corrected.

Assuming the flying parent is the one who pays alimony, he therefore tends to be the looser.

[shortstripper]

Sounds to me that it's just a case of spite in most cases, which is sad, but very human. It's so sad when the kids become a stick with which to beat each other; it can't be good for them either :(

Real and percieved risk is there whether married or divorced. I remember when we had the first of our five kids; we said we'd not go for any long trips together even in a car, for fear of being killed and leaving her an orphan! That didn't last very long, and as time has gone on, and more kids came along, our perception of risk has changed with it. I've taken all my kids flying and my wife did say she felt uneasy at first ... now she'd be quite happy (though sadly I have nothing to take them up in anyway :ugh:).

It always makes me laugh on the odd occasion that I have to take my youngest two to school in the morning. You can tell the new parents by their reaction to the odd knock in the play ground. Little Johnny bangs his knee and cries ... the experienced parents shrug and carry on chatting, the new ones are mortified and run over as if somebody has taken a knife to their precious! :E

SS

[IO540]

Yeah, observing other parents is always fun :)

As to the Q, I think it is a spite / control issue than a genuine fear of an accident. It doesn't work the other way round ie. the father does not need to be consulted on anything, short of (IIRC) the mother taking the kids out of the UK for a holiday. But the father's activities are nearly always strictly monitored and controlled.

As I said earlier, the legal reality is different. He has as much freedom as the mother when it comes to activities. The practical difference is that a divorced woman with custody holds nearly all the cards, so he has to "watch it" or else...

But she doesn't hold ALL the cards. While legally there is no connection between paying child maintenance and getting contact, in practice there is: child maintenance is a de facto purchase of contact in that if you simply stopped paying (without having lost your job, etc) she would soon do something about it... and this is why she doesn't quite hold all the cards. If you have the balls, and it does take a lot of balls, more than most fathers have, you can just call her bluff and take the kids for a flight; the chances are that you will win. But this is a nuclear game, which sometimes results in a total loss of contact, and is not worth trying just for something like taking the kids for a flight.

There's lots of talk about divorce on web sites because divorced people have more time to sit in front of a computer.I wouldn't have thought so with men because men tend to spend most of their life at work and they get plenty of internet access there. A man's life, in terms of his actual duties, doesn't change that much as a result of divorce - except that he gets more time and freedom in return for having less money :) The extra time/freedom can be productively spent. Of course you can hit the dating sites :)

Myself, I started learning to fly only after my divorce; had I tried it during the marriage it would have been blocked unless similar money was spent on my then wife. She was heavily into horses... but you have to be pretty heavily into horses to spend as much as flying 100+ hours/year :)

[englishal]

I'd like to offer my services as a safety pilot to all you divorced parents out there ;)

I'm not divoirced and don't have any intention of being, but don't think I'll bother having any kids after reading this post. Mind you I haven't told the wife this bombshell yet so I could well be divorced after I do !

[Tipperary]

I haven't visited PPRUNE for a while but have to say that this is a very frightening and depressing thread.

Why is there so much hate between ex-wives and ex-husbands? Where did it all go wrong?

Ok, maybe this is a really stupid question but I really don't understand...

In Holland, I was married for the greater part of my adult life... and very happy. I cannot contemplate the problems you are discussing, how can someone whom you have known and loved so well become someone who despises you so much?

Three years ago my 35 year old husband died in a tragic accident. Now, even though I try to live a very full life; I am still alone. Reading threads like this put me off contemplating a new relationship... so, I ask again, what was your mistake?!

[Pace]

Do not be put off finding someone new just be thankful that your husband brought so much into your life while he was with you.

Every partner you have hopefully brings something positive to you even if they are only with you for a few months.

You were lucky in having a good long relationship so be greatful for that. Expect nothing and you may be surprised :)

I was with my ex since she was 19 and for over 20 years. I had 2 great kids with her but things went wrong. Things change what people want changes and I went into a divorce which cost me dearly all directed and lead by the so called lawyers.
Result massive debts which after six years have now gone.
She never found what she wanted and not a week goes by without a call.
I am her friend now but thats all.

On the upside plenty of things and experiences I would not have done if married and plenty of people who have come into my life and enriched it in between.

A lot of the blame goes to the legal system which doesnt protect the people it should do yet punishes the ones it shouldnt do hence the bitterness

Pace

[Tipperary]

... sounds like we should kill all the lawyers :uhoh:

[Red 69]

There's a lesson here to all you single guys.....

[Tipperary]

JetSet747... may I suggest that the lesson is the same for single girls? :=

Or did you forget that there are female pilots too, who might be reading this foum? :rolleyes:

I think the message is to choose carefully... not that women are the only ones who make bad spouses?!?! :ugh: There are plenty of battered and broken women in society who receive no alimony and who could disprove that theory... just as there are many men broken men coping with irresponsible ex-wives who spend too much money on silly items to fill a void in their lives...

So let's keep it gender neutral, that way you won't invoke the wrath of the female pilot population! Remember, it's not a question of male and female on this forum... we all share one passion and that's the only reason we are here... :ok:

[IO540]

The lawyers are indeed a huge problem, but it isn't really their doing to start with.

The problem is that no Court will approve a settlement (a Consent Order) unless both parties have been separately advised. OK, one can "just divorce" for £150 or whatever it is nowadays, and many people do this in ignorance, but this is hugely unwise because if one of the two does well in business, inherits, or gets rich in any other way, anytime including many years later, his/her former spouse can go after a slice of this new wealth - you have been separated with a Decree Absolute which means you can remarry but only a Consent Order draws a line under the assets. I know of several spectacular cases of this.

And the problem is that the lawyer is duty bound to advise you of the maximum you can extract from the other person. A decent lawyer will also advise what is reasonable, but not all lawyers are decent, and not all people are reasonable/sensible and some will take the legal advice at its face value and go for broke.

The occassionally amusing side effect of the need to get the CO approved is that if you divorce without it, and your former spouse goes personally bankrupt, his/her trustee in bankrupcy can go after your assets too.

[Tipperary]

Christ! I'll never get married again! :eek:

[vanHorck]

Why should it put you off getting married?

Being the original poster, I married a girl who was afraid of flying.

To help her, i explained theory of flight, I took her in a PA28 on power runs on the runway with a few feet take off and in the end she happily flew with me all the way to Avignon and many more trips.

Now that I have a twin and I am divorced it seems her fear of flying (death of the kids!!!) has returned....

Well so be it.

However, I am getting remarried on February 9th (few days from now!). Divorce or loosing your loved one should never put you off finding happiness again.

And yes, many divorces have negative sides, for one as soon as you divorce the interests become individual, no longer mutual and this leads to complications, but the reality is:

The glass is not half empty, it is half full (and filling up!)

[Tipperary]

Thanks for the words of encouragement :O and...

Congratulations! :ok:

[IO540]

Congratulations vanHorck!!!! :ok: :ok:

[Squeegee Longtail]

With regard to taking children flying - I think a lot about taking mine when they are old enough. I am undecided on the subject. When I fly myself I accept that there is a risk, and accept that risk. Is it fair of me to accept it for my young children? Dunno, but I would understand an ex's concern in that regard.

[SimJock]

To add to the stories..

I started my PPL just after I got divorced (suddenly found I had more money available at the end of each month!), I told my kids and they were excited about it as I was and looked forward to going flying with me one day. Months passed and after I gained the PPL they sudenly had a 'fear of flying' which had been instilled into them by their mother, she had convinced them that light aircraft flying was 'dangerous' and they refused to go flying with me. Feeling brave one day I took them to the airfield just to have a look and sit inside a PA28, my lad liked it but was very young, but my girls wouldn't even get inside it ! I tried a couple more times to interest them but eventaully gave up. So great was their fear of a) flying and b) going against what mother had said, they just wouldn't do it.

It didn't stop their mother taking them on commercial flights to Mexico of course, twice, in the Hurricane season on both occasions, and getting airlifted out to a safer place.. but Daddy's hobby is 'dangerous'.. yeh right !

[IO540]

Children will always be loyal to the person who feeds them and dresses them.

There isn't anything one can do about that - even if one wanted to.

The best the man can do, I think, is to find a decent kind woman and make a happy home for himself, where the kids will feel at ease when they visit, and then things will start to work out OK. If the ex behaves in a spiteful manner, she will never be happy and laid-back and the kids will pick up on that. Eventually they will start to give her a hard time and she will realise she has to back off a bit, and let them do these "dangerous things" with their old man, otherwise they will make her life a misery. Eventually one reaches a reasonable situation, but it is likely to take years....

Sorting out a frequent contact, right at the outset, is the most important single thing.

[Tipperary]

SimJock, it may sound unfair... but I think IO540 is right... although you might want to watch out for one thing... make sure that the nice lady will not complain about your expenditure on your little hobby...

I was brave enough to go on a date a few months ago when the chap concerned casually let drop in the conversation that he found my hobby very expensive and self-indulgent; he couldn't really see how I could continue to justify the expense in view of the financial crisis.... yeah, I thought :eek: ?

... not to mention the fortune I spend on university fees! :\

.... a terrifying experience, put me right off! So, beware of potential nagging etc. etc.; make sure this issue is cleared up from day one! :ok:

[Radar]

vanHorck,

Congratulations mate! I wish you all the happiness ......

As a case in point, I'm also on marriage number 2. Just past the 'seven year itch', two wonderful kids (six and three years old) ..... and never been happier! Live and learn :ok:

My daughter keeps pestering me to take her flying again and again and .....:D:D:D

[IO540]

make sure that the nice lady will not complain about your expenditure on your little hobby...

I was brave enough to go on a date a few months ago when the chap concerned casually let drop in the conversation that he found my hobby very expensive and self-indulgent; he couldn't really see how I could continue to justify the expense in view of the financial crisis.... yeah, I thought

You did well to avoid that one, Tipperary :ok:

There is an old saying which goes... a man hopes the woman will not change (but she does), and the woman hopes the man will change (but he doesn't) :)

but if a keen pilot shacks up with someone who doesn't tolerate flying, they have only themselves to blame.

[vanHorck]

Tipperary,Radar and IO540

Thank you for your best wishes! I will be off the PPRUNE air for a good week after the wedding if you don't mind..... :-)))))

I'm glad I've started this thread. Divorced parents have similar issues and reading how others solve the issue is always helpful even if circumstances differ.

Wise words have been spoken here, thank you and well done!

[Tipperary]

Have a wonderful day and enjoy the honeymoon! :O

Best wishes from us all!

[jaycee58]

Getting the sack from my ex-wife was the best thing that ever happened to me! Ok, it cost me a lot initially but in the last 10 years I've:-

(1) Gained the highest possible qualifications in my profession (merchant navy).
(2) Spent 6 years successfully studying for a Open University BSc(Hons) in Maths & Economics.
(3) Got my PPL :-)
(4) Finally got to drive a car that I don't feel embarrassed to be seen in!
(5) Had a great relationship with my children.
(6) Been able to do what I want, when I want, with whoever I want.

None of this would have been possible while I was married. I've now become far too selfish to share my life with anyone. I have a girlfriend who thinks the same way. We both love our independent lives...if we meet up once a fortnight, we're happy! we have a theory that married couples would probably be better off living in separate houses and it seems it's actually not all that unusual.

I will admit that I've been luckier than most when it comes to divorce.

The "kids" are now 24 and 17...They can make up their own minds about flying.

[vanHorck]

I know of a couple who have both bought half of a two under one roof house (semi detached).

The made a door between the living rooms and a door between the bedrooms with locks on both sides.

If the doors are unlocked they can enter if they wish, if locked obviously they can't...