View Full Version : Making Grass strips?
A friend of mine is doing up a barn in the country and has an option to purchase a strip of land with it off a large field
The land will give him about 25 x 450 to 500 metres appears to be level with good approaches both ends. It has a slight slope away to the side so should drain quite well.
He is a PPL and asked me about a suitable aircraft to keep there. Apart from the usual choice of various 3 axis microlights I suggested something like a Husky any other suggestions for an aircraft which could also be flown in IMC is reasonably modern and can operate in 450 to 500 metres grass ?
I know nothing about the law on using a private field attached to your home. Can you just cut the strip, stick an aircraft there and away you go?
Many thanks
Pace
jonkil
2nd Jan 2009, 08:35
I have done it. 440 metre strip.See HERE (http://www.cairns.flyer.co.uk/ruskey09.html)
You will be bound by the 28 day rule in the UK, does not affect me as I am in Southern Ireland.
Setting up the strip is reasonably straightforward, your choice of aircraft will be limited by the length. I am operating a C42 microlight with the 100hp engine and have no problems at all. Good luck with it.
Jonkil
What is the 28 day rule in the UK? did you do anything special in preparing the strip ie sow special grass or anything else?
Pace
Duchess_Driver
2nd Jan 2009, 08:43
Link 404'd (doesn't work) on my machine...
At present, planning law in England permits the temporary use of any land for any purpose for not more than 28 days in any one year. I believe it's under review though. You'd need to keep logs to prove usage.
Any more than 28 days and you'd need planning permission for change of use.
Leigh Caudwell
2nd Jan 2009, 08:49
The link needed the www. adding, try this www.IrishFlyin.Com (http://www.cairns.flyer.co.uk/ruskey09.html)
airborne_artist
2nd Jan 2009, 08:52
NEWS: 28 day planning rule retained (http://www.airfields.org.uk/news/28_day_rule_020821.htm)
Stik's the farmer - he should be able to suggest the best seed choice.
stiknruda
2nd Jan 2009, 09:24
After serious consideration, I chose a slow growing amenity mix, with high red fescue and low clover content.
Been down for 10 years now and am still happy with my choice, gets cut with a finisher ( an 8' fine topper) every two weeks in summer and gets rolled (7tonne, 8' flat roll) when it needs it - invariably at the start of the season then once or twice mid season. I've "invented" a clever little hitch, so I can piggy-back the roll off the 3 point linkage whilst cutting.
I don't do IMC. I've operated various Pitts' off mine, a Tiger Moth, Cherokee 6, C182RG all without excitement. My strip is 535m. The key thing for me is clear approaches at both ends.
Hope that helps.
Stik
Does that mean you can only fly out of the strip on 28 days a year or can you fly a morning as a half day :)
Realistically does anyone keep a check on those days?
Pace
airborne_artist
2nd Jan 2009, 09:51
Does that mean you can only fly out of the strip on 28 days a year or can you fly a morning as a half day
Nice one! Say 20 mins for a t/o and 10 for a landing, 24 hours in a day, so that's 48 cycles in a day, multiplied by 28 days...
Or perhaps not :uhoh:
Blink182
2nd Jan 2009, 10:18
In reality , its the neighbours that would be doing the counting of 28 days....... if you have no immediate objectors then operate as you like. If a complaint is made to the local council /planners , then you would have to strictly adhere to the 28 day rule.
If any local objectors dislike the idea of an aeroplane operating now and again ( always keep circuits /GAs down to bare minimum ) then point out to them that on each of the 28 days that is allowed ..especially sunny weekend days ..you could invite any number of other aircraft and fly from dawn till dusk and be a right pain in the a*se.
will5023
2nd Jan 2009, 10:19
Hi Pace, firstly before your friend goes and spends a load of dosh on the land, look at the place from the air, if it has lots of expensive houses directly around it expect complaints! As a land owner you can operate off your own landing site for 28 days per year, this is generally 1 departure and arrival, however if you are in a rural location you could do more, bit it will pay to keep a low profile, so don't invite the world to your new airstrip! A Robin 160-180hp will operate out of 450m safely with reduced fuel etc, although it will need to be housed, also a PA28-235 would do it or C182, however if you or your friend are not familiar with STOL then get some training!!. You can keep the plane in the corner of the barn, as long as the majority of the space is for agriculture and not a change of use(planning laws), if you need specific advice PM me.
dont overfil
2nd Jan 2009, 10:23
Pace,
Insch in Aberdeenshire is about the same size and I've operated a C172M from there 3 up. I would imagine a C182 would be better or a Maule for the ultimate short field capability.
DO.
Just an hypothetical question, say you have a 500m x 50m strip of land. I wonder if you could subdivide those into, say, five properties 500m long x10m wide, and use them alternatively. Shouldn't that give you 140 days a year of unregulated operations? :8
Alternatively, if you use a microlight, I thought you could take off and land anywhere without any need for planning permission?
Genghis the Engineer
2nd Jan 2009, 10:42
Just an hypothetical question, say you have a 500m x 50m strip of land. I wonder if you could subdivide those into, say, five properties 500m long x10m wide, and use them alternatively. Shouldn't that give you 140 days a year of unregulated operations? :8
Alternatively, if you use a microlight, I thought you could take off and land anywhere without any need for planning permission?
That first point would, I think, probably need testing in a court of law. I personally suspect that said court would probably decide that you were taking the mickey!
You are incorrect with regard to microlights - they are treated just the same as any other aeroplane. You need the landowner's permission (neither here nor there if you own the land), but local authorities are likely to regard using it for more than 28 days per year as a change of use and start getting difficult.
The reality of-course is that if you are 5 miles from the nearest human habitation - do what you like, nobody is going to know or care. If on the other hand you live close to some expensive houses, expect complaints from about the second take-off. Legally however, yes you have got the 28 day rule - and with care you can manage to gently exceed that by use of careful noise and overflight procedures, not allowing anybody else in, until eventually you can prove umpty years of use without objection and apply for formal change of land useage.
G
wings on stornoway
2nd Jan 2009, 10:47
Hi take a look at this for referance!
PilotWeb (http://www.pilotweb.aero/content/articles/view_article.aspx?id=2808)
there is more to this than meets the eye 28 day rule! there is a book out as well covering the coulcil,policing,Logs,and various requirements! its made to sound so easy! Dont Wind up the village and keep a low profile! :ouch:
W.O.S
rv9abuilder
2nd Jan 2009, 11:45
Maule, Chipmunk, all vans Rv's, Tiger moth ,c182 ,c180, Zenair, Pitts
and lots more besides
Keygrip
2nd Jan 2009, 12:57
Jet Ranger.
Lister Noble
2nd Jan 2009, 14:59
Nice one!;)
The reality of-course is that if you are 5 miles from the nearest human habitation - do what you like, nobody is going to know or care. If on the other hand you live close to some expensive houses, expect complaints from about the second take-off. Legally however, yes you have got the 28 day rule - and with care you can manage to gently exceed that by use of careful noise and overflight procedures, not allowing anybody else in, until eventually you can prove umpty years of use without objection and apply for formal change of land useage.
G there is a Hamlet of houses about 3/4 mile away with a church alongside the field. He could always paint it red with a cross on the side and pretend its some local air ambulance service for residents failing that a visit from the heavy mob :)
Pace
foxmoth
2nd Jan 2009, 17:06
As a land owner you can operate off your own landing site for 28 days per year, this is generally 1 departure and arrival,
Surprised no one has commented on this! I always thought it was as many movements as you want provided you nkeep to the 28 days - much as someone else pointed out - you could have 28 fly ins with loads of a/c - a bit impractical, but I do know some guys that have just borrowed a field and organised BBQ's or even an overnight party with lots flying in!:D
will5023
2nd Jan 2009, 17:34
Fox Moth, the advice I gave referance the 28 rule is what most councils will try and enforce...to challenge this legality, correct or not is simply giving money to a lawyer, and if Paces friend wants to start an airstrip best to avoid that ;).
jonkil
2nd Jan 2009, 18:57
Preparation of the strip is important.
In my case I removed a hedge, ploughed the strip required width (6 metres) and spent a ton of time levelling and making it ready for sowing the grass-seed. Making it wider is not required as I have good run off, and it takes longer to cut the grass if it is wider :D. I used a slow intense rye grass-seed to get a good matted finish and it is not fast growing. It took 6 mts before it was ready to use, also remember that your own strip does require maintenance in the form of cutting the grass (twice weekly in the summer) and don't try it with a ride on lawnmower. I have an oldish tractor and grass topper that takes me 15 mins to cut each time. I do not permit livestock, even sheep, near the place... the crap they leave behind is terrible. I let the field around my strip for hay or sillage and do not allow any machinery movements across the strip. The finish on it now is very good and I have regular visitors to the strip including a nice little PA16 clipper. I added the hangar, the wind sock and the clubhouse in 2008. Details of the strip are in Pooleys Irish flight guide, the strip is called "Ruskey" airfield.
My original link did not work, pictures of the strip are HERE (http://www.cairns.flyer.co.uk/ruskey09.html). If you want any further details of the work involved then drop me a PM.
Regards,
Jon
chrisN
2nd Jan 2009, 23:48
LH2 asked: “Just an hypothetical question, say you have a 500m x 50m strip of land. I wonder if you could subdivide those into, say, five properties 500m long x10m wide, and use them alternatively. Shouldn't that give you 140 days a year of unregulated operations?”
No, it is all one planning unit and there is only one set of 28 days. Case law, not the original act.
By the way, there are other potential gotchas about the 28 day rule, too numerous and contentious to go into here. Getting it wrong can lead to legal action and mounting costs.
[As I wrote before: Anything I say about planning is as an unqualified person, and free, so it may be worth no more than you pay for it.]
Chris N.
Jonkil and all
Thanks for all the info. Jonkil lovely personal airfield you have contructed.
Pace
aviate1138
3rd Jan 2009, 06:43
My two penn'wth. Do not fly circuits. Be stingy and don't allow anyone access for at least the first year. If you hear rumblings, offer the whinger/s a local flight on a nice calm day. Also have your "Cancer Fund" tin visible. Make every approach a glide one. [If possible].
Also fly during the week rather than weekends [again if possible].
Happy flying! PS Operate the quietest aircraft you can!
jonkil
3rd Jan 2009, 09:10
My two penn'wth. Do not fly circuits. Be stingy and don't allow anyone access for at least the first year. If you hear rumblings, offer the whinger/s a local flight on a nice calm day. Also have your "Cancer Fund" tin visible. Make every approach a glide one. [If possible].
Also fly during the week rather than weekends [again if possible].
Happy flying! PS Operate the quietest aircraft you can!
All very good advice,
In my case I approached the local equestrian centre and told them what I was doing and put an avoidance area around it, I told them if they had concerns to come and talk to me right away.
I also run an open day once a year for the hospice, it generated almost 3000 euro in 2008 and got local press coverage,see HERE (http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3564) this helps build up local confidence and makes the airfield a little bit more "approachable" by the locals, I offer them the R/H seat anytime I go flying. Personal airstrips can look like a "rich boy's" pastime, when the locals can come and see that you are just an ordinary chap it tends to make them more comfortable.
The one thing I have found that could be problematic for some, my strip is now used as a "waypoint" by a lot of GA traffic and it can tend to be noisy, especially choppers that fly overhead at 500 feet, generally directly overhead the equestrian centre too !... I try and get the reg and inform the owner accordingly. I will paint the A/G frequency on the hangar roof this year and inform others of the situation.
There is a lot of things to consider, however having the facility at my back door does allow for some lovely summer evening flying.
effortless
3rd Jan 2009, 11:13
I fly out of a couple strips in southern France as often as I may. Flipping sanglier excavate during the night. Makes landing a bit of a lottery.
Blink182
3rd Jan 2009, 14:56
I fly out of a couple strips in southern France as often as I may. Flipping sanglier excavate during the night. Makes landing a bit of a lottery.
But they can be very tasty !;)
172driver
3rd Jan 2009, 18:03
Flipping sanglier excavate during the night.
Mais ils sont mignons ! (as in fillet, that is....:E )
effortless
4th Jan 2009, 11:38
Strangely, Les Chasseurs seem to leave the beggars alone. They prefer to roam the Garrigue miles away. Last year I saw an absolute monster attached to the bonnet of a Quatre Quatre. I think I'd like to try that with a Warrior. Rather appropriate I think. Any body want to do the w&b for an 18cwt pig?
I have some in the freezer. maybe it is time to get bit roasted. Mmmmm, yummy.
Flipping sanglier excavate during the night.
Have you checked they haven't discovered truffles?:
Could pay for a fair bit of avgas
Cusco;)