challenger 2 microlight

[wings on stornoway]

Hi All,
is there any insructors for this type of aircraft near the isle of lewis as i understand there is plenty of nppls/ppl,but as i understaand they are not allowed to teach me to fly as they do not have the rating for the challenger2?? i was told there is people here who can fly the aircraft but i cant log the hours on this aircraft hence instructor wanted for the isle of lewis.
the aircraft will be kept at stornoway at present i am awaiting for delivery and waiting for the kind chaps to get a permitt to fly any info will be most welcomed!

regards W.O.S.

[trevs99uk]

try asking the question on the BMAA forum.

BMAA Online Forums (http://www.bmaa.org/forums/)

BMAA Online (http://www.bmaa.org/default.asp)




having flown a Challenger 2 for about 7 hrs.


trevor

[will5023]

Hi Ref instruction , I presume you mean it will have a BMAA permit to fly and not an LAA one ?

Will.

[wings on stornoway]

Hi will,
i understand that the chap who is doing the permit is from the pfa office which used to be a guy called sandy hutton but i have been told he is no longer with the PFA office so i dont know who the new chap is as yet! but i should imagine that it is a stight forward microlight permit from the pfa hope this helps the aircraft weight is 400KL/or 300lb twin seater with the rotax 582 with stick and pedals in both seating areas!
regards gary

[S-Works]

If you were closer I could help you. I have quite a few hours on type flying an owner of one around for permit renewals etc as he is unable to hold a medical.

I have to say they are not my favourite type! Badly coordinated and a pain in the ass to fly. Flare to hard and you strike the tail, which fortunately does have a wheel on it, flare to little and the nose wheel bounces.

[jonkil]

Hi Ref instruction , I presume you mean it will have a BMAA permit to fly and not an LAA one ?

Will.

BFC Challengers are administrated by the LAA (PFA) so operate on a permit to fly issued by the LAA.



I have to say they are not my favourite type! Badly coordinated and a pain in the ass to fly. Flare to hard and you strike the tail, which fortunately does have a wheel on it, flare to little and the nose wheel bounces

Not my favourite type either, however not a bad aircraft to fly, I found that the rudder is there to be used, and it needs using, needs a good kick in to instigated a turn properly, otherwise it is a bit heavy in roll. The only thing I found, as you did, is the flare, but not an issue if it is operated out of a long(ish) strip... I flew it in and out of 230m and had to be on the "back of the curve" approaching so the attitude was nose high.
Pound for pound it is a lot of fun and indeed enjoyable little aeroplane.... however, buy yourself a good suit.... bloody cold.

[will5023]

Hi Gary, and Merry Xmas! Going back to your origional post....have you got your licence, or are you hoping to complete your licence on this aircraft ? If it is a conversion to type then I can propably get that sorted, however if it is training for your licence there may be a complication with training on a LAA Permit aircraft. However if you go on the LAA website www.laa.uk.com (http://www.laa.uk.com) and click on training you may find someone closer to you, alternatively e-mail us at
[email protected] with your request. hope this helps, and like Bose and others I have flown the challenger for conversions and test flights etc.

Will.

[wings on stornoway]

hi will,
merry christmas to you!
i am not after the conversion ! i am hoping to compleate my liscence on the aircraft at present i an just a student pilot the aircraft is not an open one it is enclosed cockpit area! i understand that it is on a LAA permit the pilots her say it can be flown by them some of the lads here have the NPPL/and the PPL but as stated i cant log any of the hours even if they was to take the aircraft up! := so i know this cant be done by them they was talking about rating for the challenger 2 i have been told to get an instructor for this type of plane even at most flying schools there is no challenger the nearest is the TST MK1 and even know this has gone from the flying club i believe this was at the S.A.C. so back to square 1 :(

regards gary

[S-Works]

There is no rating for the Challenger, it is just like any other microlight. Any microlight instructor worth their salt will be able to teach you in it.

Without a license you will only be able to log hours as a student, so will have to fly with an Instructor and be signed out by one post solo until you gain your own license. Flying with another PPL will not allow you to log time. It might be worth you speaking to an Instructor or school before yo actually buy this thing.

As I said not a great aircraft, even closed cockpit it will be bloody freezing and I would not say it was a great machine for ab initio training.

[wings on stornoway]

hi bx, merry xmas to you!
i have already got the aircraft!
i beleive that the pilots here need a rating for the microlight down from the ppl and the nppl to be honest i dont know! but they told me i cant log the hours if they are to take the plane up for me and that i need an instructor this is the problem it is finding one here on the isle of lewis
are you telling me if one of the pilots flew the plane here i can still log the hours as a student! interesting it is a pitty you are not in the region as you seem to know the aircraft!
regards gary

[S-Works]

No, the are quite correct. I am telling you that you need an Instructor to train you and be able to log hours just riding with a PPL makes you nothing more than a passenger.

[wings on stornoway]

Hi,
thanks for the info
back to the drawing board is there anybody that would teach me to fly the challenger 2 in scotland Nr isle of lewis!! ( private instructor)or nearest club from here?? need to gain my liscence in this type of aircraft!

regards gary

[will5023]

Hi Gary, try this link to find the nearest club/instructor to you.

BMAA Online (http://www.bmaa.org/clubs.asp)

[wings on stornoway]

Hi Will,
thanks for the imput but i have tried the BMMA and the LAA but got no joy and as i am not a member of either i cant access there site to get any info off there but i did see a name sandy hutton who was a guy i spoke to about 8 months ago about a Permitt to fly but was told by the PFA that he is no longer with them! i am a member of the S.A.C. but the problem is the distance never even got to the club last year! i will possibbly be looking for an instructor who would come over to the isle of lewis or it means travelling some distance for a couple of hours flying i cant win i am on a loose situation either way! have the club got a challenger?????
after next month the aircraft will be at stornoway airport and then who knows!! aircraft at stornoway student pilot at stornoway instructor??????:sad: take a guess!! :ugh:

[S-Works]

Why don't you go to a ML school and do the PPL(M) in one hit and then get checked out on the challenger when you are done. Strikes me it would be less of a pain in the bum!!

[will5023]

Hi Gary, send me a PM with a phone number.

[Genghis the Engineer]

A bit of a bulletpoint post, but...

(1) You can only pay an instructor to teach you ab-initio on the Challenger if you are sole owner.

(2) If you are flying an LAA microlight you really should bite the bullet and join either BMAA or LAA, or ideally both.

(3) It's probably easier to go and get your licence on something else, then convert - which one of the other syndicate members can do for you.

(4) Let's be honest - the Isle of Lewis is a long way from most recreational flying. You almost certainly just need to go and do a residential on the mainland somewhere to get your licence. Given British winters - you might do worse than just fly out to France, Spain or Portugal and get it all done in a few weeks.

G

[wings on stornoway]

Hi G,
thanks for the input well i am the sole owner of the aircraft! i was hoping i could find an instructor on here! as far as doing my liscence in another country is out of the question! would be nice though
I am trying the LAA and the BMAA after the holidays so who knows!

thanks to all
regards gary

[Genghis the Engineer]

Sole ownership simplifies life, but realistically, you're still a long way from any school and your aircraft is not ideally suited to long surface trips.

I think you might well be still better off doing most, if not all, of your course elsewhere, then coming back and either completing with an "imported" instructor, or converting once you have your licence.

Another, and possibly more practical option, is to see if an (the?) instructor at Highland Flying School at Stornoway could become microlight rated (presumably at your expense sadly), then teach you on the Challenger?

G

[wings on stornoway]

Hi G.T.E

I am going to aproach the school as i understand that the instructor from highland flying school has the JAR NPPL /A/M i am not sure but i have been informed that if the JAR instructor holds the NPPL M then i may be O.K if not then it is a case of flying the schools aircraft for the NPPL/A and then doing a M rating either way its expensive!
At the moment they are using the PA38 i think is the term i will find out this week as i am going to aproach the school and see if it is an option that i can take with them to get my microlight liscence! thanks for the info! i will be paying for the pleasure of flying my own aircraft either way!
if the instructor will become microlight rated i dont mind i will take this up with the school nice idea! but at what costs i dont know but it would be interesting!

regards gary

[S-Works]

WOS,

you really are making this more complicated and expensive than you need to. Find a Microlight school, do the NPPL (M) and get converted onto your machine. If the weather is nice I will come and do it for you, a trip to Scotland would be pleasant!

The ML course is 25hrs, if you are capable and a quick learner you will go through in close to those hours. The cost in a ML as opposed to a SSEA is significantly cheaper.

There are plenty of places in the sunshine who would get you through in a 2 week holiday and the whole lot including the holiday would be cheaper than going through the SSEA then convert to ML route.

The cost of paying for an Instructor to convert to being an ML Instructor would cost more than doing the lot in the sunshine.

[will5023]

Hi Bose, I belive that attached to the FI rating SEP you can instruct on microlights(3 axis), so any QFI can already instruct or Gary's Challenger, had a brief discussion with "DaBoss" before he left on a trip. You can also fly a microlight,again 3 axis with a JAR SEP PPL, it is the NPPL which requires the different ratings. I have spoken to Gary direct and will get the clear picture next week when I can get the full story, so he may well be able to do an NPPL M(32hrs) with the instructor at Stornaway, will not be able to confirm until we have all the details. This was news to me as well, we live and learn!

[ifitaintboeing]

W.O.S. et al,

There is no way around the fact that you require a licence in order to fly your aircraft. You must obtain your training at a flying school from a qualified instructor.

Here is where the confusion is arising. There are solely Microlight Flying Schools with Microlight Instructors. However, in your case, since there are no Microlight Flying Schools nearby, you can use your local Flying School and their Flight Instructors.

Any FI can conduct training on a microlight, and any Flight Examiner (PPL) may examine on microlights. See LASORS Section H0

Holders of JAR-FCL licences which contain appropriate Instructor Ratings (and Examiner Authorisations) may exercise the privileges of the ratings/authorisations included in their licences on Microlight aeroplanes
and SLMG’s but shall first undertake any necessary differences training.

This means any instructor can exercise his/her privileges as an instructor on microlights, and includes CRIs, FIs, and Examiners.

If you are thinking of using Highland Flying School, I have spoken with them before, and would be happy to direct them to the appropriate regulations. However, you will appreciate that the instructor/examiner has the final say over whether they are prepared to train you on your aircraft.

Regards,

ifitaint....DaBoss

[wings on stornoway]

Hi boeing,
thanks for the info i have recently sent an email off the the hfs and got a reply from them as follows

can you tell me if the instructor who comes over from inverness is allowed to teach me on a 3 axis aircraft microlight as i believe the istructor is holding a JAR NPPL/PPL liscence any information on this will be helpful

Hi Gary

Sorry for the delay in replying, we have just moved premises in Inverness
Airport. The answer is yes, you need to book we Kenny in our Stornoway
office Tel: 01851 700358

Regards
removed name for privacy
regards gary

[will5023]

Hi Gary, glad it is all sorted, we got there in the end.Remember to say "Hello" to Andy T for me next time he passes. Good luck with your training.

W 5023

[wings on stornoway]

Hi Will,
Thanks for your help! i am hoping it is sorted out and dont have any problems with the H.F.S with regards to an instructor! and i will be pleased to pass on your regards to A.T. (thanks again will) and all the best for the new year!
Just got an email my xmas present is coming over on the ferry after the 8th its already dimantled and in the trailer! ready for delivery to the airport over here! So there is good news before the new year!

All the best Regards gary