why Canadian licence?

[redhawkdown]

Hi, guys

I just got a question.

You guys know it is much cheaper (and much well-recognized around the world) to get licences in the states,

but why are you guys trying to get Canadian licence?

People get thier Canadian licence, because they have the rights to work in Canada afterwards, but isn't it easy for a Canadian to get a job in the states as an instructor?

What do you guys say?


PS: I got limited knowledge in aviation and what I have mentioned above might have errors. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Tintin]

For what i know redhawkdown Canadian ATPL is ICAO The us one is FAA

you said and much well-recognized around the world

Look on the job oversee 90% they ask for JAR or ICAO atpl www.flightglobal.com..

Hope it answer part of your question.

[BelArgUSA]

Canadian ATPL is ICAO - indeed -
And so is the US-FAA ATP certificate... ICAO as well...
Could we get correct info posted in Pprune, please...?
xxx
:suspect:
Happy contrails

[varigflier]

There is a bilateral agreement between the FAA and TC so it is really easy to convert licenses. Look for more information on the FAA website or TC website. Basically it involves getting the medical and taking a written test on airlaw. No more checkrides required. That goes for all levels of licenses. I hope this helps.

[The Wraith]

....and you get to say, "Eh" at the end of all your sentences!!!!!:E:E:E:E:E

[remarkablebean]

Flight Crew Licensing - Conversion Agreement between U.S. and Canada (http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/general/personnel/USConversion.htm)

Info right there. Medical needed remember.

[Tintin]

belargusa. Realy? FAA is ICAO???
Can you explain that then
CL604/605 Captains and First Officers - Middle East - 200125516 - Flight Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/cl604605-captains-and-first-officers-middle-east-middle-east-200125516.htm)
Look at the licence need

[fernytickles]

Tintin,

Try using the ICAO member states list as a reference....

International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) (http://www.icao.int/cgi/goto_m.pl?cgi/statesDB4.pl?en)

[BelArgUSA]

Hola Tintin...
xxx
I looked at the "licence need" as you said...
It says "JAA/FAA ATPL preferred - ICAO accepted"
Agree with you, quite confusing, makes people believe JAA/FAA is not ICAO.
The people who dont know, are in fact, the people who publish that text...
xxx
It means they prefer JAA and FAA... JAA and FAA are both ICAO
They say they accept any other ICAO ATPL.
They would save their time (and printing costs) by just saying "ICAO ATPL"
xxx
Many people think FAA pilot licence is not ICAO...
Same thing... JAA is not ICAO...
Many, if not, the majority of UN countries are member of ICAO.
The licences they issue are ICAO as well.
xxx
Obviously, JAA and FAA licences are the most common, worldwide.
Yet, many other nations issue reputable (ICAO) licences...
Among them, Canada, Australia, NZ, Japan, South Africa etc.
xxx
:8
Happy contrails

[KAG]

I have never heard about a non-ICAO ATPL. Does it exist?
I don' t think so.

US ATPL is issued by FAA.
Canadian ATPL is issued by Transport Canada.
European ATPL is issued by JAA.
Chinese ATPL is issued by the CAAC.

All are ICAO.

Let' s imagine that a non-ICAO ATPL does exist, would the holder be able to fly international?

[varigflier]

Yes, there are a few countries which are not a member of ICAO but off the top of my head, I don't know who they are.

[investdude]

BelArgUSA (http://www.pprune.org/members/113788-belargusa) you are wrong. The FAA license is NOT an ICAO licence. This is because of deviations from the ICAO standard. That's why advertisments often specify an ICAO license because validations from an ICAO state CAA can only be given to holders of another ICAO state license. The Canadian license IS an ICAO license.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The Canadian license IS an ICAO license.

Aahh then that really does not say much for ICAO standards does it?

[Willie Everlearn]

Hang on.
Let's not assume the 'employer' knows what he/she is talking about when they make reference their preferred licences in an advert.
I've found in most cases (not all) they're aiming for the most 'common' amongst licences and therefore the largest pilot pool with those licences(which happens to be Europe and the United States). Also, some of these Ops people (non-specific reference) conjuring up these ads don't know their behind from a hole in the ground. :ugh:

If your home country is a signatory to ICAO, then you hold an ICAO licence.

I'm not fussy on the standards for our CDN licences. I think it could/should be higher but I'll tell you this much, the ICAO standard needs to at least come up to CDN standards.


Willie :ok:

[spencer101]

I don't think that Taiwan is ICAO.

But back to your first post. Sure you can go and get an FAA license but you will still need to have a green card or US citizenship to work in the US as a flight instruct or fly one of those "N" tail business jets you see flying around in Canada. ... As per the NAFTA agreement, pilots don't fall under the professional occupation list, like doctors or accountants, so we are out of luck.

[BelArgUSA]

Investdude - you are wrong (with equal respect due)
xxx
Any pilot licences issued by countries member of ICAO, are ICAO licences, or compliant with ICAO standards.
I believe that the US is a member of ICAO, if not, strike United States from the list of ICAO member nations.
xxx
The USA, like any other nations, at times, issue licences which do not meet ICAO standards.
In that case, the limitation is indicated under "Title XIII" of their licence (or certificate).
Example -
FAR 61.159(2)(d) "Holder does not meet the pilot in command requirements of ICAO"...
xxx
I hold a FAA ATP certificate with various type ratings.
There are no "limitations" listed under Title XIII of my certificate.
So my licence is fully compliant with ICAO.
With my limited knowledge of English - I then understand that I hold an ICAO ATPL...
Is it same in YOUR English - eh...? Ou bien dois-je l'écrire en français si vous êtes Québecois...?
This FAA licence is, or was validated by numerous ICAO aviation authorities, including JAA.
xxx
If you do not agree (or fail to understand) - I dont mind - I retire at end of November.
:*
Happy contrails

[investdude]

Sorry BelArgUSA (http://www.pprune.org/members/113788-belargusa) but you're still wrong. This subject has been thrashed out on PPRUNE before but I guess the thread is so old it's no longer on the board. Not all licenses are ICAO because some states don't meet ICAO standards. It doesn't mean those licenses are no good, just that they deviate from the ICAO standard. For instance, with an FAA licence you can be F/O on a multi-engine aircraft but you don't have a type rating. With an ICAO licence you must have a type rating to act as F/O on a multi-engine aircraft that requires a F/O. Check it out you'll find that the FAA license is not ICAO.

[Carrier]

Question: "why Canadian licence?"

Answer: If you want an aviation licence and do not want to get one from the undisputed largest country in world aviation - USA - it makes sense to get one from the undisputed second largest country in world aviation - Canada. The last time I checked Canada had about 50% more commercially registered aircraft than third place Russia and associates and more commercially registered aircraft than the UK, Germany and France combined. People are needed to fly all these Canadian aircraft so Canadian pilot numbers reflect a similar ratio. In addition, as might be expected, pilots holding a licence from the second largest country in world aviation are to be found employed in all continents because, equally obviously, a licence from the second largest country in world aviation is recognised and respected throughout the world.
In addition to pilots and engineers, Canada also has the second largest nationally owned aircraft maker in the world - Bombardier - which is second only to the USA company Boeing. Airbus Industries is larger than Bombardier but it is not owned by one country. It is a rather fractious partnership cobbled together by some of the world's lesser aviation countries situated in Europe.

[Panama Jack]

There are a few other factors in favor of Canadian licenses that have not been mentioned.

1) Any foreign medical examiner can potentially renew your Canadian medical.
2) Relatively low costs, able to do licence renewals, pay fees, etc "by mail."
3) Ability to add certain foreign qualifications, such as type ratings, onto your established and medically valid Canadian license via relatively simple and low-cost administrative procedures.

Many countries file exemptions or differences from ICAO Annex 1 as from other ICAO Annexes, and Canada and the United States are no exception. Canada has published about 34 differences from ICAO Annex 1, and they can be reviewed in the AIM Canada LRA 3.10. From my personal experience, regulators consider licenses from an ICAO state to be an ICAO license.

Taiwan R.O.C. is not an ICAO state, and this probably has more to do with that Taiwan R.O.C. is not a member of the United Nations (ICAO is a body of the UN) for political reasons (objection from the P.R. of China and all the can of worms that tends to bring). However, please note KAG that China Airlines and Eva Air fly worldwide using Taiwanese-licensed airmen, and countries publish entry and overflight requirements for aircraft from non-ICAO states.

[varigflier]

Does the Canadian license expire or is it just like the US license that doesn't have an expiration date?

[MidgetBoy]

Canadian license doesn't expire, it becomes invalid when your medical becomes invalid.
And theres all those check rides, t/os and ldgs you have to do if you don't fly for long periods of times.

[dannyjet]

What if you've been flying but not in Canada? And of course been keeping a Category 1 medical valid in that other country you are flying?

I have dual citizenship (canadian/chilean) but I've always lived in Chile. Last year I finished my flight training in Canada and recently I finished my convalidation here in Chile. I now have a chilean CPL, validated by its respective chilean Category 1 medical of course. I also convalidated IFR and all the canadian flight time was credited.

So since I came back I've wondered if the fact that I fly here in Chile, I have a chilean CPL, I've done the written tests and flight tests as part of the convalidation and have also keep the medical current, has a positive impact in keeping the canadian documents current as well. By the way, Chile is a member of the ICAO.

DU

[Mostly Harmless]

The real issue here isn’t really about which license you have in your wallet. The real issue is in the labour laws of individual countries. In other words, do you have the right to work in the US? If you do not, then you cannot be hired to fly an N numbered aeroplane. That would render your FAA license somewhat moot. Either way, the conversion process to hold both is not too bad, but could add extra cost… it’s been a while since I have looked into this and it looks like others have put up some good links. Just make sure you investigate your ability to hold down a job wherever you get your license. Now while you are correct that you could get an instructing job south of 49, I believe that your visa would limit you to only being an instructor and never being able to escape that roll. I may be completely wrong here, but that is the thing you want to research.

Best wishes on whichever path you choose to travel.

[dannyjet]

Well at least for me the "labour laws of individual countries" do not apply as I have dual citizenship. Excuse me if you were replying to another post.

DU

[varigflier]

Mostly Harmless, that is not 100% true. Although I agree with you here in Brazil there are lots of N registered business jets that require FAA licenses to fly them and since most Brazilians don't have FAA licenses, it is a good option for those who do have one. I am not sure if other countries are the same way but it is cheaper for the plane to be N registered than to have it registered in Brazil. Lots of red tape and high costs. So in this case even though you could not be able to work in the US, you could fly any N registered aircraft here.

VF

[varigflier]

Daniel,

How long did it take you to convert your Canadian license to you a Chilean license? Did Chile accept all of your flight time ok or was it a hassle to get it accepted?

VF

[dannyjet]

It took me around 10 months but it is doable in half that. I was working as an english teacher in a couple of institutes at the same time plus the fact that I arrived to Chile late last year when summer vacations were close and everything slows down. It took me like two months to get the medical certificate due to the fact I didn't have health insurance. Written tests are easy to get rid of although flight tests are scheduled for you in three weeks time or a month because of demand and low quantity of examiners.

And yes, the flight time was all credited. It was kind of weird though; in Canada your dual time goes PIC to the instructor. Here in Chile, dual time or better said, instruction time goes PIC to the student, so I guess here in Chile I have more PIC than in Canada hehe.

Now go figure how good of an idea is it to be an instructor in Chile with that regulation haha. The thing is I think there is no such thing as dual time in Chile, it is either PIC or copilot... yes, copilot; no matter if the aircraft is a certified two crew member or not.

DU

[varigflier]

It took me 8 months to get a conversion from FAA to ANAC in Brazil. And my flight time wasn't accepted so was a brand new commercial pilot with 0 flight time. This was over 4 years ago but I doubt it has changed.

[Asrian]

(English is not my first language, so please bare with me)
To understand it right, I would like to ask again:

There is no difference between a Canadian PPL and an US-FAA PPL regarding expiration? Both don't expire, but just become inactive without a valid medical and can be paused for a longer time period and can get reactivated later?
Or is there a difference regarding expiration?

Any other license and training-related reasons I should do my PPL in Canada instead the US? (my aim: cost effective but quality training for PPL for private flying)

[Taxidriver009]

I can understand you want to obtain a “proper” license while saving money. Bigger countries offer “cheaper” training but I would suggest you do your PPL in the country you intend to do your flying.

If you want to make a career of it, then broaden your horizons with additional licenses and validations. Rather use money spent on travel and accommodation abroad, for additional time in the cockpit!

If it is that much cheaper to do it in North America, it still doesn't matter which license you hold, but experience in the cockpit.

Clear as mud?:confused:

I'm sure the flying schools you are researching will assist with all your questions regarding licensing in applicable country..........

[Asrian]

Taxi,
thanks for reply, but You didn't answer my question!

So I would like to ask again:
Is the Canadian PPL like the US PPL regarding expiration or does it expire like the JAR-PPL or national PPL in most european countries when not kept current all the time?

[Taxidriver009]

All the answers you need regarding TC licensing.

Flight Crew Licensing (http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/personnel/menu.htm)

[BeechNut]

Both don't expire, but just become inactive without a valid medical and can be paused for a longer time period and can get reactivated later?
Or is there a difference regarding expiration?

While the license does not expire, their are conditions attached to being able to exercise the privileges of the license. One of those is the requirement for fairly extensive refresher training if you haven't flown in 5 years or more.

It involves doing all of the exercises necessary to obtain the license, that you would need to demonstrate to a TC examiner. The difference is that you don't have to demonstrate them to an examiner as there is no formal exam, you do have to demonstrate them to an instructor and be signed off by the instructor. You also have to write the PSTAR air law exam, but that's a piece of cake.

The reality for a PPL, as I am, when letting your skills lapse beyond 5 years, is about 15 hours dual with an instructor.

Beech

[joe grind]

You can fly an N reg acft for hire without right to work in the U.S. as long as you have an faa cert.
You just can't fly it in the U.S. or it's territories.
There are many N reg acft working throughout the world.

[Asrian]

Thank You Beech and Joe for Your anwers!