PPL Currency?

[markvincent747]

Hi All,

I passed my PPL skills test last summer and had my license issued in October 07 but unfortunately I have not flown since due to a number of reasons - mainly financial

My question is how long will my license stay valid if I do not regularly fly? I know to keep my license current I need to fly each month but if I don’t fly for a considerable length of time will my license simply become invalid and require exams and tests to be retaken?

Many Thanks for your help........Mark

[Duchess_Driver]

Your licence is valid for a period of 5 years.

Your rating to fly single engine piston aeroplanes is valid for 2 years. You need to fly 12 hours (6 of which must be p1, 1 hr dual with an instructor) in the last 12 months of this period for the licence to be revalidated 'by experience'.

If however, during this period you haven't flown for a period, to fly passengers you will need to have completed 3 take-off and landings within the last 90 days. Thats the rules of the land.

Club rules vary but are ususally a 'check-ride' if you haven't flown within the last 30 days.

[scherzo]

DD has put it very well indeed, but part of having a PPL is knowing this, or at least knowing where to look it up. If you have signed a club's Flying Orders book you have signed to say that you understand amongst other things, currency rules.

Remember your licence is valid for 5 years from date of issue, but your SEP is 24 months from the date of test. Even if you have your own plane and are not restricted by club currency rules, it would be wise to get an instructor to check you out again if you are low hours and not in current practise.

[Deano777]

DD

And don't forget you need 12 take off's & landings within the last 12 months too. :ok:

[Kengineer-130]

I need to re-validate, ( JAA SEPL) as I have not flown the hours I need :( (£££ is the main cause as ever :ugh:).. What needs to be done for this?

[scherzo]

..or you can revalidate by check...ie an LPC with FE...

[the dean]

kengineer,

as sherzo says...some would take this course of action..ie renew by flight proficiency check again....it might be a cheaper option, but bear in mind, if you have not done at least some hours and brushed up manouvers again, in my experience as an examiner , you are unlikely to be proficient enough to pass. that could mean a partial ( in which case you need to reapply with the additional cost that brings ) or a full fail ( unlikely ) with even more cost applying for a retest...

i have a friend who flies ATRs. he likes to keep his SEL and SEL IR alive but does'nt have the time to do the necessary in singles so he opts each time to take the flight check, but as he is flying constantly ( though the single is different ), and so he never has a problem passing it.

some do a few hours to brush with an instructor and take the flight check, but thats a personal choice. doing the required 12 hours and the hour with the instructor in that is, to most people, satisfactory.

with the cost of aviation these days and temporary draws on our resourses situations like yours are unavoidable, but remember the requirements are there to protect you ( and those that fly with you )

good luck.:ok:

the dean

[taylor_mckenzie]

Something else to keep i mind, your license never actually expires, it is your medical that puts a 5 year "expiration date" on the license, no medical, invalid license. So five years from the date of your medical exam your license is invalid. Then you have all the recency requirements on top of that to stay current.

[BEagle]

Something else to keep i mind, your license never actually expires, it is your medical that puts a 5 year "expiration date" on the license, no medical, invalid license. So five years from the date of your medical exam your license is invalid. Then you have all the recency requirements on top of that to stay current

Wrong.

A JAR-FCL PPL(A) has to be re-issued every 5 years (for no real reason) irrespective of medical validity or anything else.

It will not be re-issued unless you have a valid JAA Class 2 or JAA Class 1 medical certificate.

[Airbusguy18]

If its 12 hours in total, 6 hours p1 (PIC), then is the other six hours just flying backseat or going up with another PPL holder?

[Coffin Corner]

No, it has to be loggable hours, you cannot log hours by back seating, or by just "going up with a PPL". Loggable hours = hours in your logbook.
P1 - P/UT - PICUS etc.

[nick14]

There seems to be a large number of people that do not know how to log hours and what is acceptable in terms of how to operate in order to log hours.

Is this something new or has it always been an issue? Is it something that can be corrected at flying club level or should it be included in ground instruction? I personally teach my theory students about the logbook etc, does anyone else?

[madlandrover]

I personally teach my theory students about the logbook etc, does anyone else?

I do, as do my colleagues - both during initial training and any time we see a licensed pilot for any training, since it avoids confusion. Unfortunately bad habits seem to be easy to pick up. Sometimes club environments with no oversight can lead to this (although not always!!), sometimes rapid initial training with not enough time spent reinforcing the basics. Much like not understanding the legal privileges and requirements of licenses and ratings...

[nick14]

And how long licences and ratings last for etc

I encourage my students to read the various LASORS, and FCL docs (although im sure it will all become EASA very soon) but some seem to think that im over teaching the legislation.

Ah well we can but try

[Whopity]

Every pilot should know the privileges of their licence and where to find them! Despite teaching this for many years, I am astounded how many do not.

[Mad Girl]

I was shown the AIP, Lasors, the CAA web site etc etc etc and believe I was taught very thoroughly.

However.... I recently came across a very experienced instructor/examiner who told me I could log P1S for a flight where I'd dragged an instructor with me (I was right on the limit of my currency on that type) and where he hadn't had to touch the controls or influence the flight in anyway.

I'd always been told that P1S was ONLY for the use of the successful completion of a test and said this to him, but he said I was wrong - so I logged PUT! (as I was taught originally!)

Not wanting to inflame the thread - but maybe instructors/examiners should look to themselves for the lack of knowledge/understanding in pilots rather than assume it must be laziness - as we usually do as we were taught.

[WestWind1950]

JAR-FCL has now been around since 2003 and it doesn't cease to amaze me, how many pilots STILL don't know the regs!

6 PIC hours minimum (can of course be all 12); other, missing, 6 hours CAN be instruction taken, either as a new student or training for another rating. In those cases the instructor is PIC, but you can still log the hours (as non-pic).

Some medicals are 5 years, some two, some one... so as has been said, it has nothing to do with the 5 year validity of your licence!

[Whopity]

JAR-FCL has now been around since 2003It was introduced in July 1999 for aeroplanes and all existing licences have been maintained in accordance with it since Jan 2000!but maybe instructors/examiners should look to themselves for the lack of knowledge/understanding in pilots rather than assume it must be laziness The basic rules are quite simple however there are areas where the published rules do not answer all of the questions, P1S being one. Lasors, and before that CAP53/54 gave an interpretation that was there for a specific purpose; counting hours for issue and revalidation. The requirements for logging hours are contained in the ANO, they are not as comprehensive as JAR-FCL but if you comply with the ANO you are legal no matter what any other document may say. The log book is a personal document and you are free to record whatever you want in it so long as it is not used fraudulently.

[macs86]

Hi Guys, a few questions if thats ok:

1) Somone told me they recently changed the rules to say you must fly 12 hours in the FIRST 12 months after passing your test to stay current - is this true??

Assuming thats NOT true:

2) Is it that you must fly 12 hours in the 24 months after passing your skills test? or after getting your lisence?

3) Is it right that the 12 hrs must be flown in the last 12 months, any anything flown before that (ie the first 12) doesn't count.

Thanks for the help with these, i've been having trouble finding these answers in the documentation.

M

[Whopity]

The rules for the NPPL changed, but the JAA rules have not changed and even under EASA, the revalidation rules will remain the same as they have been for the past 11 years.Is it that you must fly 12 hours in the 24 months after passing your skills test? or after getting your lisence?The 12 months before the aircraft rating expiry (valid until) date. This should coincide with the aniversary of the PPL Skill Test date. anything flown before that (ie the first 12) doesn't count.Correcti've been having trouble finding these answers in the documentation.There was a piece of paper issued with your licence that explained this, and probably pointed you at LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts_LASORS%202010%20Bookmarked.pdf)

[macs86]

OK great, thanks for the answer.
The reason i ask is because I was lucky enough to have my entire PPL sponsored but as i am a student i have not been able to afford to fly since that sponsorship money dried up (when i got my ppl) L I have been saving and can probably now afford to fly 12 hours, but as i passed my skills test in October 2010 would i be right in thinking that (financially) it would make more sense for me to hold off flying until after October this year, so those hours can count towards my revalidation in Oct 2012?
PS I know i can let it expire completely and wait until i have some more cash, but I really don’t want to have to do another skills test as it was stressful enough the first time (!!), and besides, I’m really itching to fly!

[macs86]

OK great, thanks for the answer.
The reason i ask is because I was lucky enough to have my entire PPL sponsored but as i am a student i have not been able to afford to fly since that sponsorship money dried up (when i got my ppl) L I have been saving and can probably now afford to fly 12 hours, but as i passed my skills test in October 2010 would i be right in thinking that (financially) it would make more sense for me to hold off flying until after October this year, so those hours can count towards my revalidation in Oct 2012?
PS I know i can let it expire completely and wait until i have some more cash, but I really don’t want to have to do another skills test as it was stressful enough the first time (!!), and besides, I’m really itching to fly! [but i can wait til october] Hi, can someone 'in the know' confirm i have understood this correctly.... cheers!

[dobbin1]

The short answer is yes. No one cares what you did in the first 12 months, only the 12 months preceding expiry counts.

Here is the long answer from LASORS

Revalidation by flying experience:-
A SEP (Land) and/or TMG class rating can be revalidated
by flying experience by producing logbook evidence to
an appropriately authorised JAR-FCL Examiner, before
the rating expiry date has passed, of the following flying
experience completed within the 12 months preceding the
rating expiry date.

12 hours
of flight time in SEP or TMG aircraft as
appropriate to include;
i.

6 hours as pilot-in-command;
ii.

12 take-offs and landings;
iii. a training flight of at least

1 hour’s duration with
a FI(A) or CRI(A)* who must countersign the
appropriate logbook entry (see full details below).

... This training flight may be replaced by any other aeroplane
proficiency check or skill test for an instrument, class or
type rating (as defined by JAR-FCL) with a JAA qualified
Examiner, or by a flight test for the issue/revalidation or
renewal of a UK IMC rating.
• If revalidating by flying experience, and providing
the examiner signs the Certificate of Revalidation
page within the 3 months prior to the rating expiry,
the validity of the revalidated rating will be calculated
from the date of expiry of the preceding rating.

[Frelon]

Blimey! Must get my eyesite checked 'cos the printing on this forum is getting too small to read!!:rolleyes:

[WestWind1950]

Quote:
JAR-FCL has now been around since 2003
It was introduced in July 1999 for aeroplanes and all existing licences have been maintained in accordance with it since Jan 2000!

sorry Whopity, I forgot to reply. Here in Germany it wasn't introduced until May 2003. Before that we actually had no idea what was going to hit us! :uhoh:

To this day I can't understand why no one has complained about the hours not counting in the first 12 months. If I flew (and paid for) tons of hours the first 12 months, then was unable to fly often enough the second 12... that's unfair! AND, lots of pilots skip flying the first 12 (see above...), which could be a safety factor, or not? From day one I thought this regulation stupid, but it seemed no one else did. :confused:

[thepiper]

Slightly off topic but does the flight with an instructor have to be in a "G" registered aircraft? Currently I have easier access to an "N" registered aircraft.

Many thanks for your help

[Genghis the Engineer]

Slightly off topic but does the flight with an instructor have to be in a "G" registered aircraft? Currently I have easier access to an "N" registered aircraft.

Many thanks for your help

No, but does have to be with a JAA instructor able to fly PiC of that aeroplane.

G

[BEagle]

Slightly off topic but does the flight with an instructor have to be in a "G" registered aircraft? Currently I have easier access to an "N" registered aircraft.
See LASORS A19 TRAINING AND TESTING ON FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT!

It's on .pdf page 59 of 681 in LASORS 2010.

The 'training flight with an instructor' requirement requires compliance with A19.