IMCR Training dead ?

[PompeyPaul]

Was reading the GPS thread and saw a quote from IO540:

IMCR training is nearly dead now (due to the uncertainty);
Is this true ? Are people really dropping out of it ? I was going to do the IMCR in Autumn. Even if it gets dropped I still get 3 years out of it. It will also sharpen those skills.

I saw quotes for around £2300 all in, which seems resonable.

[Say again s l o w l y]

No it isn't "dead" there are still plenty of people taking IMC courses and whilst there aren't massive numbers of people to teach it anymore, most schools can get hold of someone easily who can put you through the mill.

It is a useful course and all we need now is for EASA to come up with a sensible Europe wide rating. Though I fear we may be waiting some time.............

[wsmempson]

Not dead yet - as it the very least it has 4 years to run before easa can put a gun to it's head. However, even if it does get snuffed out by our friends in euroland (who think that the IMC is a bad idea, but the brevet de bas is a good idea...i mean, you couldn't make it up!) the IMC training could save you life one day - just do it, you won't regret it.

[IO540]

The IMCR is not dead - there are 4 years to run and there is a chance that some grandfather solution will be found then.

I said "IMCR training" and sadly this is supported by the IMCR award figures published in Flight Training News. The awards are down a factor of 3 on a few years ago.

I have no idea why the drop in training - is the UK GA flying / pilot profile changing that much, are people really abandoning the IFR certified spamcan scene, are some/many schools not promoting it, whatever? It certainly isn't due to the recent EASA inspired situation; the decline is almost linear from much further back.

[tuscan]

Could the lack of applicants be due to the recent and ongoing crisis thats hit so many people and actually have nothing to do with aviation.
So many people are tightening their belts and I wonder if PPL`s are focusing their funds on VFR only.

I, like others recommend the training. Even if it becomes obsolete you still have a few years left of ligitimate IMC flying in UK and more importantly it may save your bacon one day just having the knowledge.

Go for it and enjoy:ok:

[PompeyPaul]

Could the lack of applicants be due to the recent and ongoing crisis thats hit so many people and actually have nothing to do with aviation
Quite possibly. I've got the cash in the bank but I'm sitting on it right now, just in case things gets a little sticky later...

[IO540]

Like I said, the decline goes back much further.

Unfortunately posting a graphic here is such a hassle because I have to host it somewhere first...

[Squeegee Longtail]

I did the imc rating some years ago (16 actually) purely to sharpen my skills and make me a more confident pilot, and to save my bacon one day - which it did very shortly after passing it.
The knowledge is valuable, even if the piece of paper isn't for much longer.

[igarratt]

Doing IMC at the moment, though yes I did have to move schools to be able to get an instructor that was available and certified to teach it.

I'm sure it wont be long before I get to use it, far too often I've taken off with a nice clear blue sky cavok and returned an hour later to find some 1000 base +RAGS.:eek:
I want it to primarily make sure I can get myself down safe but also to lessen the 5 times on the run 'cant fly coz of weather' line.

As for the future I would hope they may do as the have with the BCPL ie currents get grandfather rights.
Or is there reasons they cant do that ?

Not that I've used it for this purpose but useful if your going to France/eu as you can pop up above in the uk and provided it's clear in France/eu then your happily back in vmc.:ok:

Ian

[DX Wombat]

I'm doing mine at HAC, Shobdon where it is made a lot easier for us by having excellent rates for members, especially members of the syndicate. :ok:

[1d2d3d4d]

Just started mine at Wellesbourne. I think this is one area that the law is an ass. The CAA should be actively encouraging PPLs and NPPLs to add this rating to their licences. Ok it's a UK only rating but I get the impression many foreign pilots would like the privalige or something similar, the Irish for example. Just because the rating is not valid it does not mean you cannot do the training for it and if other european pilots came here for the training and pushed the advantages maybe we could have a europe wide IMCR.

Well one can dream:hmm:

[TheOddOne]

In our little Group of 22, we have 3 people currently doing IMC training and a 4th starting soon. Other schools I know of also have an on-going IMC student list.

TheOddOne

[18greens]

Do the IMC whilst you can. You will always have grandfather rights to use it. If EASA decide the new instrument rating is longer (and more expensive- it won't be cheaper) that will then be your only choice.

[DX Wombat]

aiming to start the course in the Autumn You may find yourself a bit pushed to get in the experience requirements for starting the course, in time for Autumn.

[IO540]

I would definitely do the IMCR course. If the privilege does end, it is highly likely that the training hours will count towards some EASA IR anyway.

The training is priceless.

[trevs99uk]

I hope you are all going to reply to the EASA NPA on pilot licensing..
see:-
http://www.pprune.org/forums/private-flying/329993-easa-proposals-npa-pilot-licencing.html

And quote that the S in EASA stands for Safety and they are doing away(potentially) with the IMCR which must be one of the safeist ratings. And let they are introducing the french Brevet system which is one of the most unsafetiest....

[Pianorak]

Like I said, the decline goes back much further.

Unfortunately posting a graphic here is such a hassle because I have to host it somewhere first...

Figures taken from FTN News graph:

PPL IMC Rating (Figures approx.)

2002: 780
2003: 550
2004: 520
2005: 380
2006: 350
2007: 250

[IO540]

Thank you Pianorak - I recall these.

There has to be some fairly structural reason for this type of decline.

It's a real shame since the IMCR is a fantastic privilege - also giving VMC on top privileges worldwide, which I have found priceless for VFR touring around Europe.

The full IR is much nicer in terms of blanket go-anywhere privileges but it is a far bigger project.

[1d2d3d4d]

IO504

If an IMCR is a UK only rating how can it give VFR on top privileges world wide? Surely outside the UK you have to be in sight of the surface and have the correct separation from cloud for the ascent and descent through few, scattered or broken cloud. Or am I missing something here?

Chris

[eltonioni]

In sight of the surface and clear of cloud is a UK restriction, not worldwide so you need to check local rules.

I'm glad to be one of the class of 2008 :)

[tuscan]

I hope IO540`s assumption turns out to be a reality with hours counting towards something European, my IMC is up soon and I was wondering wether or not to revalidate.
I did mine with Highland Flying School and as far as I know they still teach this at a very competative rate and can provide next to nothing accomodation very nearby.

I`m not trying to promote them but when I was up there I was impressed with the whole set-up. If I recall it took me 5 days start to finish which was intense but fun..
Theres plenty of connections for getting up North for you Southerners.

[IO540]

If an IMCR is a UK only rating how can it give VFR on top privileges world wide?

Oh noooooooooooooooooo please not again :)

This one has been done to death here and everywhere else.

The IMC Rating gives you two main things:

a) IFR privileges in Class D-G. This bit (this bit only) is limited to UK airspace only in the ANO.

b) It removes the requirement (on all UK issued PPLs) of having to be in sight of the surface at all times. This enables VMC on top flight, above a solid overcast. The removal of this requirement (which you also get with the full IR) has no territorial restriction on it.

I have the above in writing from the CAA, and you can read the ANO yourself to check (if you can unravel it).

Obviously if the airspace in which you are flying happens to prohibit VMC on top (under VFR) then you cannot do it there, but I don't know if there is any place in Europe which does so.

The practical application of this is that the UK usually has worse weather than further south, so you can climb out through the cloud leaving the UK, stay VMC on top across France, halfway down France the cloud might peter out, and then you arrive clean VFR. And the opposite on the way back, landing with an instrument approach in the UK. This way you are nice and legal all the way.