Gyroplane question.

[Flag Track]

Bone question; Can you fly gyros on a NPPL medical? Is there such an animal as a NPPL(G)?

[jonkil]

Check out NPPL (http://www.nppl.uk.com)
Should answer your questions.

[Crash one]

I would give them a ring & ask. I cannot find any reference to rotary (H or G) differences / ratings. I believe you can now do seaplane on a NPPL which was not possible a year ago, so may be worth asking.

[Dean Abbott]

Training can be carried out by any CAA authorised Gyroplane Instructor, the qualification required to fly is the Private Pilots Licence (Gyroplanes), or PPL(G). The precise requirements for this vary according to your qualifications when you start, but can be summarised as:
Ab-initio (no previous licence held):
40 hours training under instruction. Of this approximately half will be flown with your instructor on board, and half flown solo. You will take a set of straightforward written exams.
Holders of fixed-wing or microlight PPLs:
Training requirements are reduced to 30 hours. Requirements for written exams are waived, other than the Aircraft Technical examination.
Full details of the PPL(G) requirements can be found in the CAA's LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=90&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=1591) publication.
Medical requirements are pretty straightforward. You will need a form signed by your GP declaring that you meet the same standards that the DVLA apply to professional drivers. You can pick up a copy of the form here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_Med-Declaration%20_PPL_Balloon-gyros-Nov_04.pdf).

[shortstripper]

No, there are PPL(G), UK CPL(H&G) and UK ATPL(H&G). The latter two are no longer issued, and JAR-FCL equivalents do not have Gyroplane privileges.

So if there is no CPL for Gyro's, could you fly one for hire or reward with just a PPL? I think I know the answer, but I'd be interested to know what the thinking is?

SS

[ShyTorque]

No, there are PPL(G), UK CPL(H&G) and UK ATPL(H&G). The latter two are no longer issued, and JAR-FCL equivalents do not have Gyroplane privileges.

Interesting news. How long since these were no longer issued? :confused:

[Whirlygig]

Er ... about 6 years??? When JAA took over??

Cheers

Whirls

[ShyTorque]

Ooh, no, I don't think so.

This might be a case of licences at dawn.... ten paces... draw! :}

(Actually, they probably no longer allow an initial issue but do allow renewals).

[Whirlygig]

Is your chosen weapon semantics eh, ShyT?

Cheers

Whirls

['India-Mike]

Gyroplanes are a part of the CAA's Safety Plan 2008

SRG Safety Plan 2008 Update: SRG Safety Plan 2008 Update | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=3177)

Licensing developments seems to be mainly of interest to instructors and examiners, but the preparation of a Standards Document (44) might be one for all those interested to watch out for.

[GyroSteve]

The PPL(G) may become an NPPL(G) at some point, but it probably won't amount to much more than a change in the name. As there is no ICAO standard for Gyroplane licencing the PPL(G) is a UK-specific qualification.

As it is the PPL(G) uses the NPPL medical and the exams are the NPPL(M) ones with the exception of aircraft technical, and Air Law which has a couple of gyro-specific questions.

[ShyTorque]

Is your chosen weapon semantics eh, ShyT?
Cheers
Whirls

No, my ATPL/HG was renewed late last year. It says HG on every page and twice on some pages.

All I need is a suitable aircraft..... That Fairey Rotodyne looks like a fine machine, I can't wait for them to come into service, cough... :8

[Whirlygig]

I think the "semantics" here involve the words "issue" versus "renewal". To me (and probably the person who originally made the point!), the words "issue" and "renewal" do not mean the same thing!! :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

[shortstripper]

No, you could not fly for hire and reward except in very limited circumstances - as a flying instructor for example. Otherwise at least a CPL would be required - same as for aeroplanes and helicopters.

I agree, but in a confused kind of way? If there isn't a CPL for gyroplanes then can they not be used for hire and reward full stop? Does it mean a gyro pilot can earn only if they have a CPL in another class? Perhaps nobody considers a gyro cannot be used to earn money? ... just wondering?

SS

[ShyTorque]

As I pointed out / agreed in my post #10... What's the issue here? I merely asked a question in all innocence and somehow got berated for it.

[Whirlygig]

Aw c'mon ShyT, there's no need to renew the issue!! :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

[ShyTorque]

I was going to say "a licentious issue" .... but of course I would never post such a thing.

Thanks for the info.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

If you want a Commercial Gyroplane Pilots License you can get one in the U.S.A..

[GyroSteve]

There's no Gyro CPL in the UK because no-one has made a serious request for one. If you have a reason for wanting a CPL(G), and an aircraft on which you can exploit it (ie a gyro with a CofA or a Permit plus exemption for aerial work) then you'd need to work with the CAA on developing a set of requirements.

The CAA are aware that this may be needed at some point in the future.

[ShyTorque]

GyroSteve,

Presumably I only need a type rating, as I already hold an ATPL(G)? This is a hypothetical question as I don't need to use that part of my licence.

Has anyone in UK done this in recent years, I wonder?

[GyroSteve]

Sorry, don't know. That's one for the CAA!

[Helinut]

In the UK I suspect that there are no gyroplanes registered that are permitted to be used for aerial work (other than instruction) or commercial air transport. So even if you could get a licence, there is not a suitable gyro to fly. Most are self-build and there is only one type currently manufactured that can be flown under the UK system (MT-03).

In practice, UK Gyros get a permit to fly and NOT a C of A.

Re: Shy T's (hypothetical) question, I believe that the practical requirement is a significantly abridged flying course (20 hrs?) (when compared to an ab-initio) and only P of F theory. Not 100% sure, but I think you actually get a UK PPL(G) rather than a usable ATPL(G)

[SNS3Guppy]

In the US the gyro class rating has to be held at the commercial level before one can apply and test for instructor privileges in the same.

[ShyTorque]

Ozymandias,

So 10 hrs instruction including flight test hrs and 10 hrs PIC would be required. :) Thanks for that.

[ShyTorque]

No, I wouldn't ever take anything posted here as the authoritive statement although the info in LASORS you linked to seems to be clear enough. I wouldn't want to operate autogyros commercially, just fly for recreation in my dotage, btw.

Thanks again. :ok:

[Flag Track]

Many thanks for the replies. I don't meet the eyesight standard for professional driver NPPL-wise, but I understand PPL limits go to -8 dioptres, so to take a passenger other than a safety pilot, I would have to pass a class 2 PPL medical methinks? Any opinions/suggestions gratefully received!

Flag track

[LH2]

An ATPL(G) must be quite an achievement. Can you imagine yourself claiming 500hr on a multicrew gyroplane, 100hr instrument, 100 night, etc.? :8

Not to mention a Balloon ATPL.

[ShyTorque]

If we had some practical autogyros it would be no big thing though.

I don't know why the CAA previously lumped everything rotary winged together, but they did! I've never flown an autogyro in my life but I'm very aware that there are some important differences in handling techniques.

[MartinCh]

Chuck > If you want a Commercial Gyroplane Pilots License you can get one in the U.S.A..
Well, FAA system is touch different. Especially as one should have CPL of whatever kind to instruct, right? AFAIK, there's also CPL for gliders. Not very high requirements but some TT hours of which quite a few could be from powered airplanes. I forgot the exact hours. CFR..

LH2, you just made me laugh. Yeah, if one clings to allegedly already issued JAA ATPL - guess for heli pilots who got this 'freebie' from CAA, ehm, I can't see where you'd stick passengers if flying multicrew on current gyros. The letters A and T wouldn't really make sense in this context for ATPL gyros holders.

ShyT, well, at least you won't have to 'slam the collective' when the engine quits. I only flew Robbies, but I'll do some fun flying in gyros given time, cash and opportunity in the future.

That school in Kent states on its website that they need £5k cash deposit before flying solo. That's on top of 340 quid insurance. :confused: Yeah, due to paperwork, they also mention the only allow solo flight to pilots in the training. Guess something to do with rental as commercial activity etc.
There are some places in Spain one could fly gyro around. Where else if not in the country of its origin. My idea of nice holidays if not flying other kind of aircraft :)