Chaos at Terminal 5

[Capvermell]

Is there a tendancy for staff, faced with all the aggrevation from passengers caught up in the chaos, to summon the police to assist?

Yes it is absolutely the case that passengers who are being treated like total garbage and placed in impossible situations are now routinely threatened with eviction from the terminal by Police by BAA and BA staff if you dare challenge any of their decisions or edicts.

I travelled through Gatwick North Terminal on a 5.45am BA flight in August 2006 on the first day of the alleged plot to bomb BA planes that led to initially no hand luggage at all being allowed (from that morning) and then the no liquids and only one very small piece of hand luggage policy a few days later.

That day passengers were given no information on what was happening or why and why they could not take even take car keys with security fobs or valuable computers with vital data in their hand luggage but anyone who dared challenge the situation was immediately threatened with exclusion from their flight and explulsion from the terminal if they did not comply. The culture now is very definitely that the rights of the BA and BAA staff come a very big first and that the passengers are more like inmates in a prison or a tyrranical boarding school who must do precisely as they are told. There seems to be a view that there are plenty more of them around and that they only get in the way of BA and BAA staff having a stress free day.

[Capvermell]

Computer says "Yes" :rolleyes: But surely you have banned his IP address from posting for the time being so I don't see how it can be? Or did you only suspend his account then and not stop him creating new IDs on the forum from the same IP address?

[Hand Solo]

Yes it is absolutely the case that passengers who are being treated like total garbage and placed in impossible situations are now routinely threatened with eviction from the terminal by Police

Routinely? I've told you a million times not to exaggerate?

That day passengers were given no information on what was happening or why and why they could not take even take car keys with security fobs or valuable computers with vital data in their hand luggage but anyone who dared challenge the situation was immediately threatened with exclusion from their flight and explulsion from the terminal if they did not comply.

Well then you had exactly the same information as the BA staff, who also had to surrender car keys with security fobs in order to go airside, even if they weren't flying.

The culture now is very definitely that the rights of the BA and BAA staff come a very big first and that the passengers are more like inmates in a prison or a tyrranical boarding school who must do precisely as they are told.

No, the culture is that the government issue ridiculous security diktats that all must slavishly obey and BA staff are not prepared to be the punch bags for pissed off passengers. If you don't like the rules write to your MP. It's no good carping at BA staff and giving them s**t, they don't make the rules.

[Capvermell]

If you don't like the rules write to your MPNew Labour ignores all public opinion and instead imposes on the public what it knows is best for them so there really isn't much point.

At the end of the day if the staff were not prepared to slavishly follow ridiculous edicts the ridiculous edicts could not be enforced.

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate?

I only have 46 posts in the forum!

[Hand Solo]

I look forward to seeing your one man protest against speed cameras then.:rolleyes:

[Capvermell]

I look forward to seeing your one man protest against speed cameras then.

Its hardly a one man campaign is it.

See http://pepipoo.com/ and www.abd.org.uk

And when did I mention speed cameras?

[Hand Solo]

Identical concept. Do you really, for one tiny moment, think it's realistic for staff to just refuse to implemet these edicts? And the world will just carry on? I'll tell you what will happen. TRANSEC will close the airport and it won't re-open until they comply with the restrictions. The airport owner will sack all the people who refuse to comply and replace them with people who will. Now, who's going to make a stand and be sacked for your right to carry a key fob or laptop?

[exeng]

As I've been in and out of Oslo since Monday 31 Mar flying my 737 in dirty civvies I've checked with Menzies on the status of my missing bag.

At the end of each duty I've checked in with the duty staff in the arly evening always to be told that your bag is not here.

I checked on Friday and they were so busy that they told me to check the four recently arrived trolleys myself. I did that to find nothing. (Fantastic customer service eh - a club pssenger told to root around a load of trolleys!)

On Saturday (after fliyng to Alicante and back) I checked again with Menzies (BA reps) to be told that my bag was not at Oslo because it had been sent back to LHR where I was to pick it up!!!!!

I did point out that I had stated that I was in Oslo until Saturday; that was met with a shrug of the shoulders.

I do despair.

Regards
Exeng

[exeng]

My last two sectors were with an F/O who used to be BA management and has some inside info.

He told me that the word is Willie was told that T5 was not ready. Apparently (if it is to be believed) Willie took a gamble on T5 working because he wanted the costs to be placed within the current financial year.

I'm not a financial expert in any way shape or form, but if that is true then that is a gamble that has not paid off and he and the leadership team should pay.


Regards
Exeng

[BallBuster]

I agree ExEng Sack the lot of them. There is no doubt WW knew the as everyone else at BA also knew the show wasn't ready. He and his lack luster team need to go

[Hand Solo]

Is that your fourth identity tonight? Have you nothing better to do?

[peebs24]

don't bitch and whine....... just build 9!!

[PAXboy]

What is all the furore ...??
Just go back to four. :p

[al446]

BBCnews24, if you are not BAEng in a different guise, are a proper journo with the best interests of aviation put above normal journo's instincts to see their byline on stories and have been 'following' this you will realise that BAEng was actually an open terminal in a crew room and the person posting could change depending on shift changes. The posts were constant and views erratic but with a broad slant against BA. That is fair enough but trying to get a handle on gripes can be hard and generally slagging something off is no solution. I will debate any point with anyone but not a rotating, faceless bunch of tossers who think this sport; a great airline is being brought down here and BAEng purports to work for them.
I would also question your credentials as a journo, pprune is good for getting the gossip if you are that way inclined but it is lazy journalism to take it as your only source and , I would suggest, your time would be better spent actually investigating the story than trawling through 50+ pages to find f**k all of substance.
I do hope your journalistic technique improves, if it requires honing I can consult with colleagues who mat suggest suitable college courses.:)

[xyzzy]

I may not be a pilot or an aviation engineer, but I do have twenty plus years in IT development and operation. And let me hand you all a simple fact: systems never, ever get fixed overnight.

If you've been developing and testing a system for years, and it's in operation and failing, you'll never be able to fix anything in short timescales. If it worked in testing and not in production, the issues will be narrow race conditions and resource starvation, and both of those are hard to fix. If they weren't you would have found and fixed them before you went into production. Computer systems fail non-linearly and explosively, so you often don't have much warning and end up with little evidence.

The best you can do overnight is unwind changes (surely to God they haven't been hacking and patching over the weekend?) or put everything back to a known state and pray it doesn't happen again (Yoke Peter? Just a one off). If they think someone is going to stare at the code, say ``ahh! That's the wrong bit!'', compile, install and be a hero they must be dreaming: it's not directly safety-critical, but I presume bag-reconciliation is subject to some audit.

In some scenarios you find a toxic wotsit: a file, or item of email, or database record that when accessed causes hell to break loose. If you can identify it you can find it, remove it (where possible), pray another one doesn't arise and use it to get your developers to fix the bug. But I'd be surprised if that were the case here.

[luoto]

And now snow is affecting LHR :)

It doesn't rain, err, snow, but it pours.

[luoto]

GobonaStick: many journalists have atrocious spelling in their mother tongue... that is what sub editors are for (if their company has not got rid of them all).

Sometimes it is felt better to have a good "digger" for news compared to a person who writes like an acadmic (nothing wrong with academia but it is not the same as writing a news story) or who just takes the news at face value.

[FlightCosting]

Does anybody know if BA managed to get every flight off on time and with bags on Saturday. I only get Sky News here in Sweden and they have been silent on it.

[Human Factor]

No, the baggage system failed again. 12 outbound and 12 inbound flights were cancelled.

Today, there's about an inch and half of snow in the south east of England.

[Joetom]

Web site shows 34 of todays LHR departures are canx at this time, it was only 29 about half an hour ago, so guess 34 will grow some.....

Good luck to the passengers today....

[cwatters]

Clive James on Terminal 5, mobiles on planes and the French royal couple....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7330850.stm

"I won't name her, because she is only 29 years old, and when all this blows over there is still time for her to start a new career in some less demanding field."

"...after decades of people in management talking tripe, it is too late to expect that what someone in management says will happen will have any relation to what actually happens.."

and on Carla..

"When the Duke of Edinburgh asked her how she could change outfits so often without losing track, she said: "My policy is to create a context for change, then to apply changes within that context."

[old,not bold]

Brilliant!

I had missed seeing BAA's Head of People and Change, or even knowing that this 29 year-old expert existed.

I wonder if she's got an MBA? Where else would she learn the meaningless drivel she comes out with?

Since T5's problems seemed to be caused mostly by People and Change, were she and her post created overnight to take the rap?

Is that what is known as a "Spanish Practice?"

[fireflybob]

Just listened to BBC Local Radio News who said BA had cancelled 50 flights this morning due weather at LHR and that the runways had been closed (shock/horror) for TWENTY minutes for deicing!!

[PAXboy]

Info about the Clive James item was posted in SLF forum late Friday night after it was first broadcast:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321253

[Willie Wash]

Today there has been a whole 1" of snow on the roof of my beautiful Terminal 5, it looks like a picture postcard! Unfortunately for our passengers the damn stuff fell on the surrounding runway. But every cloud has a silver lining, I can just blame the flight cancellations on this enormous siberian downpour we had this morning. 60 flights cancelled so far, maybe today is going to be a record?Anyway with snow forcast for tomorrow, looks like we can have a rest and get on with clearing those 20,000 or so bags. When i say we i mean those volunteers who kindly give their time for free, bless them.WW

[Willie Wash]

THeres snow business like Snow business. I looked out my window today as I rolled from huge four poster, saw the snow and thought Thank you! What a perfect excuse for a load of delayed flights.

[Willie Wash]

What do you lot have against my lovely Terminal 5, all you do is moan moan moan. As if any of you could do any better. Instead of moaning why don't you offer some constructive criticism? Calling for people to resign doesn't really help the matter, we're all in this together, us, passengers and the staff people. I'm reading this to see if any of you have some decent ideas to make it better. I like the earlier post about the DOT changing their rules on security. Just think it's a no go as I can't see in the current climate security measures being relaxed.I had thought about allowing passengers to load their own bags, that would reduce staffing costs and if the bags didn't get on the aircraft they couldn't very well blame us? I put the question on Yahoo answers (it's how I make all my most important business decisions) and the feedback is really rather positive.Oh, have you tried my game?www.weewilliewalsh.co.uk it really is fun if not a little humiliating.

[HZ123]

Willie I am sure like many pruners you must realise it is time to go cap in hand to Emirates. I can assure you that there is a company who have some idea of what they are about and could bury the name of BA for good. It goes with out saying that there will be a position comenserate with your current emolument and status. I have started a wip at Cranebank toward your leaving gift please do not be dissapointed.

[Hand Solo]

Why do people always think Emirates is so well run? With dirt cheap fuel and access to vast amounts of oil money almost any airline could do well. Do Emirates still have new aircraft parked up because they don't have enough pilots to fly them?

[luoto]

I doubt Emirates would have any more practical experience in dealing with snow problems though :)

[Hot Wings]

De-icing ops run out of T4 with only 2 out of 6 rigs working. Rigs had to return to T4 to refill causing massive delays (allegedly). Solution........sue the pilots for ruining the BA brand (my dog left a pile of BA brand on the common this morning!).

Time to replace WW with Sid James - Carry On BA!

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I am missing something in your post, what has T5 to do with it if all you mention is T4?

[Hot Wings]

Well, try getting a de-icing rig from T4 to T5 in a hurry. Perhaps BA figured that it wouldn't snow at T5 due to global warming.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Seemed clear enough to me ... and do the de-icers have to share the taxyway with aircraft to get from T4 to T5? Or did someone think it through and build a service road?

I have this vague feeling that T5 was a flawed concept from startex. The lack of real estate, ramps/piers/whatever ...and yesterday's DT says that there may be fewer regional flights into LHR, so that unless you live in Surrey or West Lunnon you won't be able to get to an international flight without substantial aggravation.

[747-436]

De-icing ops run out of T4 with only 2 out of 6 rigs working. Rigs had to return to T4 to refill causing massive delays (allegedly). Solution........sue the pilots for ruining the BA brand (my dog left a pile of BA brand on the common this morning!).

T5 has its own de icing fill up facility near the end of 09R, I guess along with a lot of other things in T5 it still isn't ready, BAA for you!

Seemed clear enough to me ... and do the de-icers have to share the taxyway with aircraft to get from T4 to T5? Or did someone think it through and build a service road?

There is a road that has been built for Cargo to get round to T5, it runs from the end of cargo around 09R into T5 that way. Not sure if anyone else is allowed to use it.

[Hotel Mode]

There is a road that has been built for Cargo to get round to T5, it runs from the end of cargo around 09R into T5 that way. Not sure if anyone else is allowed to use it.

They are but as its after 31st march BAA didnt grit it and it was closed for 2 accidents this morning.

[Willie Wash]

May I ask my learned fellow PPRUNERS of the feathered type, why oh why does this supposed 'bad weather' in the southeast not affect other airlines. It appears that BA is the only airline affected. I cannot find any other airline cancellations at Heathrow. Am I being told more porkies? Is it just a convienient excuse to buy a little time when the promise of a 'Full service' failed miserably? Discussion please.....

[SkyCamMK]

Hmmmm! I've flown 2.5 hrs Cessna just north of Luton today. Some snow early morning to about 10:00 am but otherwise much blue sky for me!!

[WHBM]

Willie will never resign, he will have to be pushed. Martin Broughton, as chairman of BA, ought to have, to justify his own huge salary, someone in reserve at all times who he can replace the CEO with should things not work out.

And with everything (including an inch or two of snow, gone within 12 hours) seeming to bring the complete BA operation grinding to a halt, it is obvious that every week WW stays on instead of someone more effective, it's another few tens of millions more down the drain. And this includes someone who can tell BAA, as a BA supplier, nothing more, exactly what they have to do (preferably in words of one syllable and 100 db), rather than wiffle-waffling along with their excuses.

As I've said before, does MB not have Barbara Cassani's phone number ?

[Two-Tone-Blue]

As I understand it to date [unless any of these items have been resolved] and relating to T5 only [not management of BA or BAA specifically]:

1. Baggage computer has gone down.
2. Suggestions that baggage handlers are playing around with the air-side operation.
3. Lifts and other bits of T5 infrastructure aren't working [i.e. Is the South Galleries Lounge now fully "S"? How many lifts are working?]
4. Business car parking is being used by emergency staff.
5. Staff Sy access is/was unable to cope.
6. Baggage staff air-side are unfamiliar/untrained on the tasks.
7. nn,nnn thousand bags are adrift in "BA-aero-space".
8. De-icing on Sunday morning was apparently another T5 failure.

Have any of these aspects been fixed?
Is there any sign of progress?

Surely the dynamics of this site can offer some useful updates on what's happening for the benefit of Ppruners who may have to use the place.
"Kill Will" can be said somewhere else ... what's happening NOW at T5, folks?

[kick the tires]

Chaos in CDG this afternoon as BA cancelled 3 of its LHR flights.

Big queues at what looks like a temporary BA desk and then even bigger queues at the EZY desk as people try and get flights back to UK.

BA announce that such and such a number of flights have been cancelled today and to many its just a number but to see the actual people who are caught up in this mess, struggling to get home, really brings the point home.

[Speedpig]

Can I just ask, how many here have actually been in T5?

[vanHorck]

tens of thousands by now, but many thousands never left it. Must have liked the interior of the terminal

[Nigel_the_Normal]

This excuse for an airline has cancelled 78 flights today.

Come on 900 lets have the benefit of your all seeing BA mangement wisdom, you t**t.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Can I just ask, how many here have actually been in T5?

Sort of what I'm getting at, really.
Anyone can sit at home and rattle a keyboard ...
Is there anyone there who actually knows anything, as opposed to just consuming bandwidth?

[andyhargreaves]

I have, as a passenger. Had a fairly good experience, actually. Was only a UK domestic flight, and I had no hold baggage, so can see potential for more problems. Only slight delay was boarding because (as the pilot told us when we were boarded) they couldn't find enough ground staff :confused::confused:

[Speedpig]

I have spent some time working there and am interested in peoples REAL opinion.
There is an awful lot of drivel being written here just for the sake of BA bashing.
Many pax told me that they had a very pleasant experience

Nigel the Normal????? which excuse do you work for?. You're a very rude and pointless poster..

Just for the record, BA cancelled 17 flights at Gatwick this morning. I wonder why that was?

BAA shut the runway for 2 hours..... but no doubt you'll tell me that BA was the only airline that had to divert (silly BA don't carry 2 hours holding fuel).

Back to the thread....
Every other airline in the world is spitting feathers that BA have sole use of T5...
It's own motorway spur, tube station etc, etc..... Lord Branston must be particularly peeved

[Willie Wash]

In reply to Speedpig's question, Yes I have been a number of times. Indeed I have been there this afternoon. It's scary in there, too much glass and too many angry people. I feel sorry for the BA staff, there were a number of incidents today as tempers are starting to flare. Good move by BA to ban the media from the terminal, the scenes of people rowing and being ushered out by the police would make good TV. Customer service, path that's a joke.

[Willie Wash]

The runway at LHR was only shut 'briefly' today, not the 2hrs that speedpig seems to suggest. I think speedpig is trying to be a little misleading on this thread. Reference my earlier post, for the pilots here, would 1" of snow, the 'kind' we had this morning cause you any difficulty landing. Indeed I have experianced landing in a variety of aircraft in very inclement weather, lots of snow on the runway. It only seems to be a problem at LHR. You know the press releases from BA & BAA is just more spin when the snow which settled had melted, all on it's own by 10am this morning.

[Speedpig]

Care to read my post again Willie?

I said runway at GATWICK not LHR... and it was 3 inches of snow.... wet

[jolini]

I have been reading the multitude of posts here since the beginning of the T5 debacle and as a new reader have kept my head below the parapet. I`m just having a quick look over ,so keep the bullets flying high!

One thing that I cannot get my head round is that although passengers unfortunate to be "flying" ( I use that word advisedly) from T5 on it`s opening day had no choice but put up with all the crap that BA & BAA threw at them, why every day since ,are people still booking to fly with this awful airline from some of the the worst facilities in Europe.

Are these passengers either completely insane or the most optimistic beings on the Planet? Why anyone, including practising masocists want to put themselves through all that misery is a complete mystery to me.
I for one will never fly with BA again or use that dump of an airport however many new terminal Terminals it opens. There are other options, or do perhaps foreigners think we only have one "airport" in the UK?

I would however like to make it quite clear that my rant is in no way directed at the thousands of hard working employees of BA & BAA ,but at the morons who are paid considerable amounts to run them but couldn`t direct traffic let alone Corporate Businesses. Rant over ----I feel better already.:)

[luoto]

I would have thought the media would have, ahem, sidestepped the media ban or had people ready to grab annoyed passengers and then whistle them off to a nearby hotel for a quick interview.

[Speedpig]

I think the media were banned for taking fake photographs and not speaking to pax who had not had problems

[Two-Tone-Blue]

A good point, luoto ...

What we are getting on the mainstream Media [ie BBC etc.] are simple figures on cancelled flights that could be generated by an 18-yo researcher with a PC. There is no "in-depth" reporting at all, or any attempt to intelligently filter out weather and normal operating issues from those specifically related to T5.

Here we are getting very little of substance, which is VERY disappointing given the size and spread of the PPRuNe knowledge-base.

Which really makes me wonder .... is this actually one big non-story now?


BTW, jolini, some people have virtually no choice but to use LHR and/or BA by virtue of destinations, schedules and other factors.

And, dysag ... I don't want to have to fly from LHR via EHAM or CDG to get where I'm going, and I can't get direct to EHAM anyway.

[Joetom]

Airline web site shows about 80 Heathrow departures are canx today.

Many other Departures and arrivals are late.

80 plus 80 = 160 = lots of unhappy passengers and bags.

Heathrow is not a very happy place today, my thoughts are with all the passengers and staff caught up in it.

[Three Yellows]

Here's my experience/views.

Last Monday (March 31st) I took the BA0724 to GVA with a scheduled departure time of 06.30 and hold bags. Returning later in the evening, with hold bags.

It certainly is an impressive building.

Arrived at 05:00 to check my bags in for an 06:30.
I was almost the first person there. A group of check in girls were trying to log on, but no one knew the password. There was a lot of discussion between the girls and they shuffled through the paperwork they had. One of them said "I just picked up everything there was... but I can't seem to find the password". After five minutes (it seemed longer) someone (a supervisor ?) came along and helped my girl log in. She told her the password so that she could type it in. "How will I remember that?" she said. "Its obvious" I said, "Its **********", a word which is closely associated with the airline (no, not "crap"). Anyway, logged in we were, but she couldn't make the sign above her head change to "Desk Open" so she gave up on that. First bag tagged.... next problem, in what sequence does one press the buttons on the desk to make the bag disappear? After randomly pressing buttons for a couple of minutes, a techy chap came along and showed her what to do and my bags were duly swallowed by the T5 baggage machine.

The nice girl apologised profusely.... explaining that it was her first day and that she had had no training. I explained that I knew and that it was ok, it wasn't her fault. Its now around 5.15am. As I turned around the queue behind me must have been twenty deep.

Through security, that was ok, but it was early and I've got used to the whole routine of just "going quietly" and undressing - shoes, belt, jacket etc.

Next the lounge. Right by Security was the Concorde Room, but we couldn't get in that way as we were mere Club Europe pax. So we followed signs for the lounge (or whatever its called). The signs took us all round the shops (of course) and then down some stairs, back through some more shops before ending up near to where we had started. Then it was up several escalators to the First lounge, round and round a bit more, before getting up to the Club lounge.

The whole point of going to the lounge at 5.30 am is for a quick cuppa and a couple of bacon rolls. The bacon rolls were not quite ready when it flashed up on the screen "Go To Gate 10B". Not knowing how far that was, and not wanting to miss it, we set off towards the gate. As we approached the lifts in the central bit, which presumably take you down to get the train to the satellite terminals "B & C" we double checked the information. It was now saying "A10" .. not "10B". We didn't have much faith in the people with clipboards, but a lady said that shorthauls were going from the A gates, so we plumped for A10.

When we got down there, A10 was a whole host of gates... A10a, A10b. A10c etc etc etc. I have not been back to check, but is it a software error that the screens in the lounge only show three characters and so A10b was displayed as 10b? The people who didn't double check and went to B10 not A10 had their bags offloaded and were left behind.

Anyway, there were a lot of flustered gate staff around all bashing away at computers... one girl commented that this was the thrid job she had been given that morning (and it was still only about 05.50).

To be fair, the buses were all lined up outside and off we went. Arriving at the a/c we could see that the steps were too low to reach the a/c door. After a lot of faffing about, more steps were brought to the rear door and we all got on there. You could say not a T5 problem though. The big problem is that we were kept on the bus for 15 minutes whilst they sorted it out, packed in like sardines with the heaters on full (for the driver) was very unpleasant. (I hate being bused to the plane although I hear that 40% of T5 flights will need a bus).

We departed 30 mins late, due to the steps and the offloading of the bags for the people at the wrong gate.... so not too bad really.

Arrived at GVA and my bags were there too! Hurrah!

Return trip uneventful.

Got a pier at T5. Walked a million miles to baggage reclaim, although the bags turned up with in a couple of minutes. So can't really grumble.

CONCLUSION

I was surprised at just how much of it was unfinished. The signage is dreadful.... do people not go round and check what they drew out on paper?

T5 is just TOO BIG.

I'm sure if you use T5 once a year and are happy to turn up four hours before your two hour flight, you'll be fine. But for regular business travellers, I think the sheer size of the whole place will be a pain in the :mad:

I am sure that one reason the baggage system fails is because you could basically check in anywhere for any flight. Would it not have been simpler to split it in two - Long Haul and Short Haul, but all within the same building? That would surely have simplified the baggage system?

I don't think that its all the fault of the baggage system. How for example could BA have staff turning up on day 5 still not knowing how to log in? I think that clearly backs up everything that has been said on here about the BA and BAA management and their MBAs.

I am staggered at the incompetance of the BA and BAA management and if they thought that T5 was going to work with the minimal investment in training and staff that they have made, then clearly they are the most deluded people I have come across and are not fit to run a bath, let alone BA and BAA. Please can someone reassure me that WW has not cut safety and engineering to the bone too?

Today's annoying news is that the snow has been blamed for the majority of cancellations. Why? It was one inch at LHR, it wasn't that cold and melted almost as fast as it arrived. On top of that it had been widely forecast for the last week, so how could BA and BAA not have been ready?

WW and his chums are a disgrace. I'm just glad that I wasn't in T5 on Day 1, 'cos I'd probably have head-butted the snivelling lepricorn.


3Y

[Willie Wash]

To all the posters who seemed suprised that there seems to be a media ban on information coming out of terminal 5, just think who is the head of PR at BA? Julia Simpson, x chief of PR during MR Blairs reign. Do you not think she has very good links in with the bosses at BA. We live in a police state, just look at the sham of the olympic torch parade today. Part of the control mechanism is to manipulate the press, this has certainly happened with Terminal 5 fiasco. THe fact that it was such an embarressment for New labour and the UK would just add to the pressure to stop showing the bad news. THe fact is, it is still going on and the media will have to stay away for months as it isn;t going to get any better soon. I think PPRUNER's should write into the BBC and complain

[Willie Wash]

Three yellows, damn fine post... the first comprehensive blow by blow passenger trip through T5. Clearly despite most things working the building has some serious glitches. With regard to the engineering and safety issues, maybe if PPRUNE has left those engineers posting through BAengineering we might have got an answer to your question. Certainly with the emergency landing of the SFN flight into SNN last night with hydraulic probs, who knows??? Though i do believe the whole airline went through a huge cut back in staff 2 years ago.

[biddedout]

Three yellows

I went through on day one. All frontline staff were very friendly and were trying to be hepful, however, there was one major glitch at the fast bag drop termnal. After queueing for about 25 minutes we eventually got to the desk, only to find the teenager reading a text on what appeared to be her company mobile phone. She apologised (in a sorry for the inconvenience caused sort of way) and explained that the text said that had to go now and the desk was closing. No one to take over, not a supervisor in sight, we were just expected to go and queue somewhere else.

Might as well have not bothered though. Haven't seen my luggage since. Baggage Tracing insist that they know it is definitely in LHR. Great:D

[ukeng]

From Three Yellows

Great post, have only seen the apron levels of T5 (airside) so good to hear a passengers eye view of the whole shambles.

Today's annoying news is that the snow has been blamed for the majority of cancellations. Why? It was one inch at LHR, it wasn't that cold and melted almost as fast as it arrived. On top of that it had been widely forecast for the last week, so how could BA and BAA not have been ready?

It was extremely cold this morning and the snow did settle, doesn't excuse the BAA for being unprepared though especially as like you say it was all over the forecasts for the last week.

I fear this may take a long time to get sorted out - the building it seems was to be "finished on time,on budget" at any cost to those using it after handover. The construction contractors should also be apologising for the state they've left a supposedly complete building in.

Lastly from me, I'm very surprised that BA (my employer) hasn't put out full page adverts in all the papers apologising to our customers - it won't fix things but it would at least a little show that we actually care what's happened to them. A weak apology on the website and a few appaling interviews with WW just aren't enough. :(

[SLF3b]

Surely there must be a limit to the number of passengers you can annoy before they go elsewhere?

[Willie Wash]

Hey UKeng, are you able to shed any light on the question in 3Y's post. I think he's getting at the fact the visual side of the airline seems to be in shambles, what's life like in engineering? have you experienced the same level of cutbacks and pressure?

[Three Yellows]

biddeout,

Sorry you lost your bags.

What caused me to have one of those :ugh::{:ugh::{ moments the other day was a BA press release which said something like this.

"We are working hard to return all bags, BUT these unaccompanied bags need triple screening and so we are sending them to Milan for sorting. Its absolutely normal and part of our SOPs" This was shown (on the BBC News site at least) with a picture of a lorry load of bags being loaded onto an Alitalia flight.

Several things sprang to my mind.

If they need triple screening, why are you putting them on an aeroplane before you have allegedly triple screened them. Secondly, I am really glad that you are so expert at losing bags, that its is "absolutely normal and standard practice" to take them half way across Europe.

Who writes this stuff, or do they think we are so stoopid we just won't notice that they are trying to pull the wool over our eyes?

[Willie Wash]

The problem is SLF3b that BA has at least 40% of the capacity out of heathrow. No matter what they do to piss their customers off, some will be forced to go back for capacity reasons. Instead of WW and co bleating about the monopoly of BAA, I think a 40% holding in any business would also be deemed to be a Monopoly.

[747-436]

If they need triple screening, why are you putting them on an aeroplane before you have allegedly triple screened them. Secondly, I am really glad that you are so expert at losing bags, that its is "absolutely normal and standard practice" to take them half way across Europe.

Who writes this stuff, or do they think we are so stoopid we just won't notice that they are trying to pull the wool over our eyes?

I believe that this is actually the case and they have to do it. Why bags need re screening when they remain airside I don't know, maybe the DFT are worried that they could be tampered with Airside and need them checked again before they go on an aircraft. Sort of makes sense but then using that logic it could tell you the airside area is not secure!!

[Sunfish]

From the posts here, I think it is safe to conclude what has been done and the thinking behind it, and what will happen at T5 next. (Mods move this if it's in the wrong place)

1. BA has a relatively highly unionised workforce with a considerable number of demarcation games played.

2. Experience in industry is that when commissioning sophisticated new plants or systems that are designed to work with fewer staff in a unionised environment, you only take the staff your system is computed to require when operating at full efficiency.

The reason for not taking/providing more staff for the start-up period, is the very real risk, as perceived by management, that the additional staff will "embed" themselves in the new operation, thus becoming essential to it, and probably bringing old demarcations with them as well, thus destroying the labour savings that were supposed to be made.

Believe me, I've seen it done. The managers and consultants will have wanted a "pure" staff, preferably with little training and experience, so that they cannot "infect T5 with the old BA culture" - that belief is the source of the waffle from the "change management girl". The most extreme example of this behaviour was at Murdoch's Wapping plant.

Unfortunately the old BA culture also carries with it hundreds of man years of experience, which by all accounts is missing at T5.

That is why nobody listened to staff suggestions or criticism of the T5 plan - you are "old BA", not the new pure and uninfected version.

That is why there are delays and seemingly not enough staff - there aren't enough staff far enough down the learning curve at T5 to be effective, even if the calculated staff numbers are correct. Management didn't consider the effect of these teething problems on market share did they? Let alone the effect on pax.


My guess is that there will be another week of this mess before BA and BAA will realise that these aren't just "teething troubles" and that "the learning curve" isn't going to save them. At that point they will panic, start throwing money and extra people at this set of problems, develop work - arounds, and invoke the Dunkirk spirit. T5 will then "sort of" work.

The consulting groups seen to be responsible will be unceremoniously sacked and a new lot will come in to review and report on the entire system from the ground up. Many millions of dollars later, and many years from now, the systems will be redesigned and work beautifully.

Thank you all for this thread, I'll fly into somewhere in Europe this summer and if I have to go to London, I'll take the train.

[vanHorck]

I agree Sunfish that the unionised demarcation is at the root of the problem.

Unfortunately Britain has these demarcations. Both sides (management and unions) see and treat each other as the enemy.

Although Maggie broke their backs, she did it in such a way that it did not bring unions and management together into working towards healthy business.
perhaps this was unavoidable.

The only solution would be if both both unions and management started treating each other with respect and started thinking within the framework of a long term healthy BA with healthy staff. I dont think it s likely to happen.

Respect for the staff is what management needs
a workforce within a healthy long term BA is what the drive of the unions should be

Neither is there

[RTM Boy]

These are good points, but maybe there's more to it than lousy management consultants and too few people with the right culture.

Certainly industrial relations at BA is worse than awful, which can't help a project like T5, but to put it down to lack of staff doesn't ring true and in any case you hardly need a degree to be baggage handler, so what is the real problem?

I think that the 'latest' computer glitch gives the game away. The systems don't work - they're badly engineered. I know there have been broken swipe car readers, lifts and escalators, air bridges still not operating correctly, guidance system failures, baggage belts stopping, the list goes on. It all looks like engineering failures and now that BAA are admitting IT problems I think the truth will come out soon enough.

The worry is that as it looks increasingly like designed-in failings are at the root cause, how long will it take to get them fixed? Six months? A year? How much embarrassment can Heathrow stand? What a mess.

[118.70]

For what its worth, to add to the rumour mill, I've come across the following comments on yacf.co.uk (The Pub).
------------------------------------------------------------------------



Just had an e-mail from someone who worked for the firm who designed the baggage system; apparently there were only a few slight problems with the equipment (it was introduced seemlessly in Sciphol) and it was all down to BA's lack of staff training and LFU(*) on the part of the staff. Apparently Gatwick North was just as shambolic also due to BA. Now watch BA blame someone else.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As it happens, I've just had a meeting at work with a chap who's now involved on one of our projects who used to be very high up on the T5 job. Oddly, we can see it out of the window from here on a clear day.

He said that BA were informed 18 months ago that their training procedures were not up to scratch and that the handover of the infrastructure would be conditional on them accepting responsibility for their improvement.

Of course, come the day, BA took on a world class building with some of the most advanced facilities of any airport terminal anywhere in the world and their baggage handlers didn't even know where to report for work. An enormous cluster**** and not the fault of the people that built the place.

My new colleague has had to tell this story an awful lot of times in the last few days...

[Skipness One Echo]

One has to ask what's going on. The BBC has just reported, from outside Heathrow as they are still banned from filming on the airport, that the problem was that there was not enough de-icing fluid and equipment on hand to deal with a minor snow fall. Piss up and brewery, *ponders*

[Basil]

118.70,
An enormous cluster**** and not the fault of the people that built the place.
Without challenging what you say, it has been said that, on day one, the staff car park was changed without prior notice.
Any comment?
Surely a failure of the baggage system can't be entirely the fault of the user?
I stand to be corrected.

[cockney steve]

in reply to "chrisbl" ( #154)... Far from being sacked, the man should be promoted!

I've no idea what you do for a living, but I've paddled my own canoe for over 30 years....so I think I understand management principles.

As other respondents intimated, this man LED his Crew ....FROM THE FRONT. He was honest with the pax- the people who paid his wage (remember?) he totally defused the likelihood of hostility towards the flight-crew and had the courtesy to treat them as sentinent people....unlike the BA "management" who appear to treat everyone with sneering contempt whilst raping the gravy-train.

A gentleman whom i'd be pleased to fly with.....unfortunately, he's working for Bloo** A** holes...and there's no way I'd put money in their pockets.....
When Walsh & Co have pillaged as much as they can, they'll disappear and hopefully some proper management will build a proper airline around the once-proud BA name.

[exeng]

I went to OSL on Monday and my bag arrived in Farnham on Sunday. The fruit I had put in my bag was rotten and had spoiled some of the clothes contained within - I'm sure that is my fault for carrying fruit.:ugh:

I expect nothing back from BA for the loss (I was told that the bag had to be missing for at least 30 days for it to be considered a loss) and I am told that I must produce receipts for any cost incurred during the 6 day period I was without my bag.

I have no receipts for the time I spent washing out my grunts. I have no receipts when the Pax shouted at me in fright when I entered the flight deck after going to the loo.

After this experience you can be sure that I will always be sure to advise people to avoid BA.

[Dairyground]

It's good to know that safety in the air is not being compromised, but there do seem to be serviceability problems. A few weeks ago I arrived in T4 from Sydney about 30min late, but still with a good chance of making my connection to Manchester. However, what with a long wait in the queue to join the queue for the security check, then the queue to be fingerprinted and photographed so that I could take the new winding route past all the T1 shops, I arrived at gate 5 just too late for my flight.

Not a problem, they booked me onto the next one. But the aircraft for that flight was found to be unserviceable, so there was a delay while they located another one. More delay (an hour or so) while they found a bus to take the passengers off round to International Arrivals -

When we finally got on board, the Captain came on to apologise for a few minutes more delay, as engineers were working to fix a problem with one of the rear doors. Three more "another fifteen minutes" announcements, then we found out that they needed a replacement part - but no problem, they could take one of another aircraft. Then they found that the donor had already been taken to the engineering base, so someone had to go over there to get it. More delay, but the part was eventually extracted, brought over and fitted.

I should have thought that a well-run business would have kept a stock of small line-replaceable parts somewhere near where they were likely to be needed, and would not have needed even to consider cannibalism.

With T5 about as far away from engineering as is possible within the confines of Heathrow, are delays from such causes likely to add even more to the chaos?

To get back to somewhere closer to the T5 thread, I have not had the pleasure? of visiting it yet, but from the reports of people who have survived it, I get the impression that it is another triumph for the architects who consider themselves artists rather than engineers.

The final problem on that delayed flight to MAN was nothing to do with BA, or even BAA, but while we were waiting, AA managed to burst some tyres when landing at MAN and block the only operational runway. i did eventually get home, and for once my luggage arrived with me!

[Preppy]

I also have had two Terminal 5 flights cancelled this week and endured a total delay of 26 hours!

I also discovered that the BA web site is unable to correctly handle cancelled flights and rebookings. The BA telephone lines are not answered. We had success dialling the USA reservation lines: 1-800-AIRWAYS. Need to prefix this number with the USA international dialling code.

Alternatively you could email the CEO, [email protected] or phone him directly at the BA Waterside HQ 0208 738 5111 :ok:

[Hartington]

Well, I used T5 on 1st April of all days. Flew to Tokyo. Slight delay for baggage otherwise all went well.

It is raining cats and dogs in Kyoto but the Cherry Blossom is lovely!

[Seat62K]

"Flapping Madly", why would Ferrovial want to assist Barajas (post 1083)? It might be involved in construction work there, but the airport is owned and operated by AENA - a nationalised concern as far as I know. And anyway, as anyone who has used the newest terminal at Barajas (Terminal 4) will know, it needs no help as it is one of the most pleasant airport terminals in the world to use, in my view, with a fast metro link to the city centre costing 2 euros (around £1.60).

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Belated thanks to Three Yellows for one of the most useful and detailed posts on this topic.

Re signage, I recall the TV documentary on T5, where the Guinea Pigs were running through T5 and comment was made on signage deficiencies somewhere in the "warrens". As for your observation on gate indications on the Monitors, it is amazing [with so many examples of "best practice" available world-wide] that T5 ended up with a system that does not apparently work.

You would think they could have come up with something that made sense to "Mr & Mrs Thickie" who apparently have never been to an airport before. [And why do I always find myself behind them in a queue? :*]

Any other T5 travellers out there care to add the current Gold Standard of T5 informative posts?

[mbrookfi]

I never go to Heathrow (or any other London airport) if I can possibly avoid it - a dirty disorganized expensive inefficient and rude place (but then so is most of England at present). Much better to go to Glasgow, Manchester, Newcastle etc if possible. Or better still fly to France or Germany for connections (I live in Taiwan). I think someone on this site has already commented about 'not being able to organize a piss up in a brewery' - the English disease.

[mildredlucozade]

I flew out of T5 yesterday, with a mere three hour delay, but mainly caused by a problem with the biometrics system. This could be a huge issue. Since domestic and airline passengers mix airside (because, allegedly, BAA wanted everyone to pass the expensive shops usually only available to international pax), the domestic ones have to have an 'iris' picture taken. When we eventually boarded our flight to Scotland, the Captain announced that some jobsworth in BAA had decided that we might have mixed with international passengers on the jetty (it was indeed chaos), and therefore we would have to take our belongings, get off, and go to another gate to do the boarding procedure again. It was right on the other side of the terminal at a coaching gate, where the earlier flight to the same destination was still boarding – so we got mixed up with them. More confusion. We reboarded but a dozen passengers were missing: seems they had almost reached the new gate when BAA made an announcement that the flight was closing – but at the original gate! So they went back. Then the biometrics system rejected them for some reason, so they were denied boarding and the Captain announced their baggage might have to be removed. Presumably they hit the roof and insisted on travelling, which they did. A very angry, frustrated and scathing pilot announced that incredibly, "in a £4bn terminal, only five or so gates have a bimoetrics system". This one could run and run...

[mildredlucozade]

Further to my earlier post about the current shambles that is T5, increasing numbers of Scots going internationally are choosing to fly via Europe, the Middle East or the US rather than use T5, and more specifically, BA. Questions have even been asked in the Scottish Parliament as to why when BA has a problem the first flights to be cancelled always appear to be Glasgow or Edinburgh? In the past business leaders have demanded explanantion from Oor Wullie, but things are even worse now. And like everyone else, we Scots like our luggage to be waiting for us at our destination... together BA and BAA are a lethal combination of badly-managed incompetence.

[Oh that's super!]

Is there something preventing some of the flights to go back operating from their previous terminal until the T5 chaos is sorted out?

[vanHorck]

i believe the space given up by BA has been committed contractually to other airlines

[fc101]

To be fair to L337 it's probably this part of the post that was being referred to

Quote:
I never go to Heathrow (or any other London airport) if I can possibly avoid it - a dirty disorganized expensive inefficient and rude place (but then so is most of England at present).
Nice first post to come on here and slate the entire country. :ugh:


However, T5 doesn't really give the best impression of the UK (nb: England is PART OF the UK) and might just affect people's perceptions of the place - especially as the T5 nonsense is plastered across most of the World's media.

[Flapping_Madly]

Actually I've just had a perfectly reasonable experience out of and into the country through terminal 3---even if due to jet lag I thought I had landed in Bombay by mistake.
Since I fly as a holiday maker I have to use whatever airport I'm told to. But I am damn sure all "professional" travellers can and will do everything they can to use Madrid, Paris, Hamburg, whatever rather than Heathrow. And I'm damn sure they will be delighted to see them.

Hence my comment about Ferrovial assisting Barajas. It was a crack with my tongue firmly in my cheeks or whatever the saying is. :D

[Human Factor]

i believe the space given up by BA has been committed contractually to other airlines

This is also likely to cause a significant problem if BA decide to "review" the move of the rest of their LHR operation (predominantly longhaul) at the end of the month. IMHO, they can "review" it as much as they like but it's unlikely that they'll be able to postpone it.

[cwatters]

> "in a £4bn terminal, only five or so gates have a bimoetrics system".

I was amazed when they switched from fingerprints to iris recognition with just days to go before opening T5. I'd assumed that when the data protection people got upset they would just throw up some extra barriers to keep averyone apart while it was sorted out. I guess they must have anticipated it to some extent. Anyone know why iris recognition is OK but fingerprints aren't? Seems to make little sense.

[Heathen_Sol]

I am wondering about what knock on effects the disruptions are having on crews.

Is this disaster badly effecting crews due to delays and frustration?

An angry crew cant be very good for safety!

Can any crew comment?

The problems have been ongoing for a while now and I wonder if the BA crews are being affected.

[Thaihawk]

BA have (and have never had) any interest in serving intercontinental destinations from Scotland-or for that any other regional point in the United Kingdom.

Obviously this is not commercially viable and Emirates,Etihad,Qatar Airways are being forced to serve regional airports in the United Kingdom at a loss to themselves,not.

BA would sooner you booked a domestic sector with them to increase their profits and subject you to the horrible Heathrow disaster,as opposed to transitting somewhere like Doha or Dubai.

The perceived BA alternative to flying to LHR to connect with a long-haul flight is to drive on the awful UK road system to LHR at great cost and in so doing boost the tax revenue to the government in fuel taxes(and soon road tolls as well),and VAT for parking your car in a (probably overpriced and BAA run)car park.

[Pinkman]

Bit of thread creep but Dairyground's post 1100 was surprising only in one respect - the fact that BA robbed a serviceable aircraft for parts for one that wasnt. Last March I was at LHR on a 744 to Cape Town when the exact same thing happened (cracked bolt in the nose landing gear). We had to wait for another 744 to come in that was due for heavy maint, BA eng swapped over the bolt, filled in the forms and off we went into the night. All cheerfully announced by the flight deck, as if it was no big deal.

I assumed it was highly unusual but having read Dairygrounds post I now wonder? If this is SOP then I am appalled. I mean, how African.

Pinkman

[Sunfish]

Pinkman:

We call that process "Christmas treeing" where I come from. Provided the "parts" (usually sub assemblies such as actuators, black boxes etc.) are within their legal limits it's no big deal. Everybody does it at one time or another, and airlines have tracking systems to keep track of exactly what is fitted where to who...

[Feline]

Cwatters - I suspect the difference between fingerprints and iris recognition is that it's much easier to accidentally leave a fingerprint where it will embarrass or incriminate you - less easy to mislay the biometrics of your iris!

[peterlondon]

ive never had lost luggage or late flights with ryanair, whose record is much better than ba, last time i flew easyjet i had a ba cabin crew member sitting beside me, knowing he was crew the staff were very good to him bringing him food and drink, after they had served him he made sneering remarks to me about their uniforms. i dont think ba has hte right to look down on budget airlines, at they least they get you there on time, with your bags and are polite, last time i flew ba the purser was stretched out over three passenger seats asleep

[Skipness One Echo]

BA have (and have never had) any interest in serving intercontinental destinations from Scotland-or for that any other regional point in the United Kingdom.

Obviously this is not commercially viable and Emirates,Etihad,Qatar Airways are being forced to serve regional airports in the United Kingdom at a loss to themselves,not.

BA would sooner you booked a domestic sector with them to increase their profits and subject you to the horrible Heathrow disaster,as opposed to transitting somewhere like Doha or Dubai.

The perceived BA alternative to flying to LHR to connect with a long-haul flight is to drive on the awful UK road system to LHR at great cost and in so doing boost the tax revenue to the government in fuel taxes(and soon road tolls as well),and VAT for parking your car in a (probably overpriced and BAA run)car park.


Clearly you have NO commercial awareness whatsoever. Dubai have their hub in Dubai, BA in London, both are served from Scotland. It's a classic hub and spoke operation, you can choose the BA hub, or the Emirates, or for that matter KLM hub. It is against BA's own business plan to serve a variety of long haul UK routes from outside London as they dilute the feed to London Heathrow, which is built to feed the long haul services. Think about Continental serving Bristol and Belfast, feeding their hub at Newark. Don't like Heathrow? Fly another hub, but get real about why BA don't fly long haul from say Glasgow to the US and Canada. It didn't make money and it's not the 1980s !!!

[747-436]

Bit of thread creep but Dairyground's post 1100 was surprising only in one respect - the fact that BA robbed a serviceable aircraft for parts for one that wasnt. Last March I was at LHR on a 744 to Cape Town when the exact same thing happened (cracked bolt in the nose landing gear). We had to wait for another 744 to come in that was due for heavy maint, BA eng swapped over the bolt, filled in the forms and off we went into the night. All cheerfully announced by the flight deck, as if it was no big deal.

I assumed it was highly unusual but having read Dairygrounds post I now wonder? If this is SOP then I am appalled. I mean, how African.

Airlines can't possibly keep all parts in stock at a time. Sometimes the nearest part could be in the USA, or on another plane, so the part is robbed from one going later to give more chance to repair it. As it has happened lots at an airline I used to work for I guess it is common practice across all airlines.
I don't see anything wrong with it, it is a servicable part so what is the problem?

Back to the thread hopefully T5 improves this week, still waiting to hear how they will work switch 2.

[qwertyuiop]

OK folks, the snow has gone, the belts are working fine, the bag mountain has gone. Lets take bets on how many flights are cx on tuesday.

[ukeng]

I assumed it was highly unusual but having read Dairygrounds post I now wonder? If this is SOP then I am appalled. I mean, how African.

Very common practice across the airline industry. Nothing to be appalled about really.

[TWOTBAGS]

Well I lived the adventure, it makes for a pretty fine shopping mall I must say! Plenty of staff at Dixons, PC world, World DutyFree, had a great burger at Giraffe, oh and there’s aeroplanes with blue bellys and shooshie tails (my daughters saying) parked outside too.

HA! I had the dubious pleasure of being in transit through T5 this afternoon in uniform coming from the continent in transit to a UK domestic destination.

Getting off the plane was hassle free even getting to the immigration cue was straightforward, but definitely not enough signage.

Immigration cue….. well it was like arriving at Sydney at 6am with 4 other widebodys….. no where near enough immigration staff to deal with the numbers. Next was to be fingerprinted…. Errrr no the machine was buggered so I got my photo taken instead, which is ok however once the chap told this old fart to remove my glasses then I don’t know whether I was looking at the camera or the short skirt belonging to the blond in front of me!

Then it was up the escalator to go through security again, well if you thought the days of “flight connections” shambles at T1 was history….. its not. Cues just the same no where near enough security staff manning the new wiz bang x-ray machines for the crowds, it took close to 30 mins which is really not acceptable, given that this place was meant to be better!

The culprit was two things, staff undergoing training and the new wizbang xray machine that returns the grey buckets itself….. great idea.. less people required. However the was an lass in front of us with a Cello…. If its not in the buck it wont fit, also there was a super size me pram for twins…. Nope did no go through either…. No bucket, no fit,
Also the amount of people that set the walk through metal detector off also meant that there was no one to collect their bucket…. So there was a bucket back up to the point where no more was being screened.

In summary there would be more capacity however it is foiled but the one thing that can never be accurately gauged. The human element.

If, and this is a big If, the operators at the terminal saw what the retail “customer service” business have in relation to staff then their may actually be customer service for the airline transport medium, which I thought was one of the reasons we flew full service airlines.

Operationally I just watched a 747 sit ½ in the bay because it appeared the guidance system did not work until you guessed it the magic wands came out and they moved onto blocks. Another 5 min delay here and its subsequent flow on effects.

The finish to the building, well its not finished! Once you get away from a retail area then there is things missing… like lifts, doors, the roof, ok maybe some of it is meant to be exposed but there are some bits that are not. On the far northern end (A1/2) with some BA office/ lounge things, one of them does not even have the glass door installed yet so there is an ill fitting wooden door in frame that has gaps above and below but the keypad lock is still there.

The floors are dirty, you would not think the place has been open only a couple weeks, the loose chairs are scattered around like kids toys, there is rubbish, (food wrappers, newspaper and the like) that have not been picked up on chairs and the floors….. and come to think of it I have yet to see a cleaner doing the rounds like you used to in the other terminals.

So in summary its been rushed and that is visible, BA/BAA wanted something world class, well they got it, a World Class F***UP! Thinking of big buildings at airports HKG puts the place to shame.

Thankfully I did not have any checked bags, I would not like to have had to write that story.

Finally there is this billboard at gate A2……. Says it all really

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z96/redlum5x5/DSC00360.jpg

[Willie Wash]

I think the hunt will be a long an difficult journey.....oh mods at PPRUNE why did you move this thread? Have BA been onto you again?

[A2QFI]

http://tinyurl.com/4fxq6d

Can this get any worse? Probably!

[luoto]

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/covers/full/1207_big.jpg

[Danny]

oh mods at PPRUNE why did you move this thread? Have BA been onto you again

No, BA haven't been onto us, again or ever! Are you really so dim as to believe that they are going to waste their time with what a group of "wannabe aviation experts" are discussing on here? Or, are you so full of pomposity to assume that your musings are of such importance that they should be exposed on the prime forum for all and sundry to read and absorb? :rolleyes:

This thread has been moved here because it is like a Hamsters Wheel. The content goes around and around with the opinions of self aggrandising "experts" who in reality, have only experienced "aviation" either as a passenger or with some lowly role within the business.

The few decent posts about their experiences from the front end, ie. pilots (for whom this website is primarily intended), are immediately bounced upon by more pompous "experts" whose only real reason for showing up on here is their insatiable desire to "hang on" to the coattails of those who are fortunate enough to work at the front end of the business in some perverted excuse for their own failed ambitions. As pilots, we are not primarily concerned with how airports are run. We are not "airport experts" even though we do use a bit more of them than most people.

Rumours & News section is not intended for every spotter, private pilot or aviation enthusiast to post about the latest Cessna 150 having a misfiring engine or about some newspaper report about some bimbo throwing a fit and getting chucked off a flight. R & N is not for the enthusiasts who "think" they are pseudo experts on the running of airports just because they read Flight or Aircraft Spotters Monthly magazine. It is for issues that affect OUR lives and jobs as professional pilots.

So, Willie Wash (aka BAEngineering and various others), if you're not happy that this thread has finally made it to the forum where you can debate how YOU would run things if you were ever allowed to get to the position where your decisions were likely to have an influence, then feel free to find a website where your happiness is of concern to anyone other than yourself. :ugh:

[mickyman]

Danny...

and the tumble weed rolls on and on........

MM.

[luoto]

Mmm.. Danny is right but the state of the operating airfield's terminal and its effects on traffic, company operations, passenger satisfaction are important to flight crew, both at the front and the rear as well. But some of the "deeper name calling" and stuff certainly needed to be weeded out. Pity the moderators.

Has there been any reported cases of crew being out of duty hours due to these problems of getting equipment to/from the aircraft? I dare say it has not been sweetness and light for cabin crew with (justifiably) annoyed pax grumbling at cc (understandable but not justified, particularly when it is accompanied by four letter words and worse).

I dare say AtC and ground control have not been sitting with their feet up either.

Certainly over here in the land (sometimes) snow the trials and tribulations of LHR have caused some concern. Seems a sparrow needs to pass wind and LHR closes nowdays (i.e. not just T5), creating problems with AY's flights to HEL and the connection traffic into OneWorld. So far AY hasn't tried to push its "asia gateway" as hard as it could though.

I guess BA's performance also has a bottom line impact on all operating crew (not just that if htere's no BA there's no job) as pension funds and the like have investments in BA.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

This thread has been moved here because it is like a Hamsters Wheel. The content goes around and around with the opinions of self aggrandising "experts" who in reality, have only experienced "aviation" either as a passenger or with some lowly role within the business.

The few decent posts about their experiences from the front end, ie. pilots (for whom this website is primarily intended), are immediately bounced upon by more pompous "experts" whose only real reason for showing up on here is their insatiable desire to "hang on" to the coattails of those who are fortunate enough to work at the front end of the business in some perverted excuse for their own failed ambitions. As pilots, we are not primarily concerned with how airports are run. We are not "airport experts" even though we do use a bit more of them than most people.Well, that's certainly put us common mortals in our place.
Do forgive us, Mr "Moderator" for daring to intrude upon the crewroom.

It is, of course, the Professional Pilots' Network. I am delighted that you have been able to enjoy your flying career, earning a substantial salary whilst flying aircraft paid for by the proletariat that inconvenience your lives so much.

The MASSIVE arrogance of that submission says so much for the airline industry today ... "Sod the Proles, I'm an airline Captain".
I spent 30 years working with your arrogant self-opinionated community: it's interesting to see that nothing has changed since I retired.

Good God, man ... you are part of aviation and airports, whether you like it or not.

And we Proles pay your salary, you rude arrogant :mad:

[edited to add ... should subscription to this site be restricted to those who hold a PPL/CPL? Mine's dated 1964, BTW]

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Hello, the Lower Orders of Society.

Has anyone been through T5 in the last few days?
Would you care to share your experience with us?

TWOTBAGS gave us one Paying Prole's view. :cool:
Anyone else?

[vanHorck]

But only if you are an ATPL and not if you are a common passenger or c150 weekend pilot!

[Two-Tone-Blue]

But only if you are an ATPL and not if you are a common passenger or c150 weekend pilot!

Ah, you spotted my omission ... no, I was never ATPL.

Civil pilot, military pilot, other things .... no, let's not go into details.
I am not a Jumbo-driving God-figure.

These days I'm just a guy who pays a lot of money to keep the Gods flying. :yuk:

[vanHorck]

Although I understand your frustration, the T5 thread brought together pilots of BA, engineers, baggage handlers and pax alike. The thread is in my view the pinacle of what a forum should be.

I am a private MEP, i run an "airline" (Seneca, private), used to be a BA gold card holder and now i dont even have a BA card anymore.

1. Yes you are right about this principally being a forum for professional pilots, but there are many threads and forums where the pilots have the upper hand within PPRuNe.
2. Yes you are right about the single sided multiple posting by individuals (or groups such as BAEngineering?) which were annoying, but still i think the thread conveyed the extreme nature of the T5 debacle.

This conveyance through this forum may well help the cause of the BA pilots who are asking in vain till now for their company to finding a new way which will secure their future in some way. Not least because during this debacle again the press has found this forum and will no doubt have been surprised by the extreme disappointment at the opening of this building and the pit it opened.

We all loose our cool from time to time. I hope you regain yours, because you run a great ship!

[Two-Tone-Blue]

I will pick up on vanHorck's comments to say simply that PPRuNe in the round [and that includes the paying punters, spotters, controllers, military unwashed and many others] provides great potential for "instant information" and "informed debate".

The presence of those who are not "professionally" close to the topic in discussion may be as frustrating to you as it is to those who are trying to glean information. Especially when they wander off into the long grass ...

But please don't ever throw a wendy like that at the rest of the public. You may be The God of PPRuNe, but that was one bad-taste post. As my wife commented, after reading your post, "I hope he isn't flying us to IAD".

Moving on, I hope ... :cool:

[vanHorck]

http://demorgen.be/dm/nl/996/Economie/article/detail/234034/2008/04/07/Piloten-verheffen-stem-na-nieuwe-schrapping-vluchten-Heathrow.dhtml

Belgian newspaper reports 138 flights cancelled by BA yesterday and 42 today

Does anyone want to convey recent T5 experience?

[2Planks]

I think they need to check their numbers in Belgium. I could only find 2 cancellations today on BAA and BA websites.

[Rob Courtney]

Went through last Friday. All ok until we got to security, the north side lanes were chokker so was directed to the south but just the same here, it took 40 mins to clear as they were only operating two scanners plus one more for club and first. There were another four scanners lying idle. (pity they dont copy Tesco and keep opening lanes until either the crowds diminish or they are all open.) Once I got through I had no time to admire the shops etc as the flight had just been called so galloped back to the north side of the terminal to be bussed out to the flight. Everything seemed to be ok, we boarded on time but the baggage trolly made frequent encoures as they must have found more luggage.
Finally ready to go approx 15 mins late only to find the ramp crew had gone AWOL, we were treated to views of the dispatcher wandering around the outside of the aircraft, radio in hand, gesticulating wildly with his hands, I can do a bit of lip reading and Im sure some of the words were French:oh:

The ramp crew were finally rounded up and we departed one hour late.

I think I will go back to using LGW until its all sorted

[Skipness One Echo]

their insatiable desire to "hang on" to the coattails of those who are fortunate enough to work at the front end of the business in some

Danny, if this Terminal 5 is the futurre, and I think it is, I wouldn't worry about a massive stampede of us lesser mortals wanting to join up. I can take a yoghurt into my office without being touched up by a "security" person.......the golden age of aviation is long gone.

[Dairyground]

And both cancellations (to EWR and IAD) were from T4. Typical delays from T5 semed to be around ten to fifteen minutes, but some flights appear to have left up to five minutes early!

Perhaps Willie has found some of those 5000 thoroughly trained staff who were mentioned by the Directors in the 2007 Annual Report. (See page 9 at http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/69/69499/Annual_Report_and_Accounts.pdf).

[luoto]

One thing I keep reading (to my amazement) is comments about "being bussed" to the aircraft. Is it so (remember I am a long way from T5) that this "p.i.t.a" practice is happening as there are no airbridges or not enough airbridges for gates (i.e. remote stand) at T5 or a shortage.

Nothing can pi// a passenger off more than finally rushing to the gate to wait for a bus where everyone is cramped on board whilst there is a tour of the airfield.

Or have I misunderstood something?

[Danny]

Just for the benefit of any two toned proles out there, the point of my missive was that there are proles who have the audacity to have a go at me and my mods for moving a thread to what is considered a more appropriate forum. This thread was allowed to stay on the R & N forum for a long time as the tipic DID affect our lives and jobs as airline pilots. However, as is usually the case, it doesn't take long for the so called "experts" to take over the thread with their interminable arguments about how they would have run things and trying to get opposing points of view reversed.

However, if you missed that point then I suppose it is down to my lack of proper education and subsequent inability to express myself properly. If, however, you thought I was calling you a "prole" then I suppose that is your problem and may be down to personal insecurities.

Now that this thread has beeen moved to the AIRLINES, AIRPORTS & Routes forum, the "proles" and all the other people who have an opinion or experience they want to relate about T5, they can do so without clogging up OUR forums elsewhere. Gosh! Even I can come down from my lofty perch and have go on here too. :ouch:

I am due to position back into LHR later this week and I have decided to make my own travel arrangements and claim back expenses rather than have to put up with T5. Train or driving back from oop north, is bound to be quicker, less frustrating (yes, even the M6) and more straightforward with the guarantee that my bags arrive with and at the same time as me! :bored:

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Danny, your points are well taken [and were actually understood from the outset].


Interesting to see you're avoiding T5 ... :hmm:

[Viewfrom5Bells]

Looking at the take off times compared to schedule it looks like there has been a near 80% departure within 20 minutes reflected in the arrival times on page 445 on ceefax. Believe there are still problems with baggage but BAA and IBM are sorting them out. BA has absolutely nothing to do with the hardware or software that runs the baggage system.

[simfly]

Have just had my first T5 experience flying to ABZ. Have to say that I am very impressed with the new place. Had no wait to check my case in, no delay and very efficient through security. Lots of room in the departures area and great views! Once any remaining glitches are sorted I really think it will make travelling through Heathrow a much more pleasant experience. :ok: (and didn't see 1 cancelled flight on the boards!!!)

[HZ123]

Not strictly correct BA have had a team involved from the outset within the group building and ITing the systems. The problem is that there are few systems on offer and all promise the user the earth and always fail to deliver, not unlike those companies that make the aircraft, and the airlines that fly them. We are now well into a culture of offering services that do not meet requirements or expectations. Nothing new here then?

[Skipness One Echo]

Had no wait to check my case in, no delay and very efficient through security. Lots of room in the departures area

Proof of the pudding is when the bulk of Terminal 4 long haul moves across.

[derekvader]

Proof of the pudding is when the bulk of Terminal 4 long haul moves across.

Indeed, I never found shorthaul from T1 to be that bad to be honest, seemed a long way to some of the gates, but no worse than many other large airports.

It was the T4 flights to Basel or longhaul that were the huge PITA, with the insane queues to check-in and then more queues to enter the shopping mall. It's those flights that need to show a radical improvement in the LHR experience before T5 can be truly deemed a success.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

It was the T4 flights to Basel or longhaul that were the huge PITA, with the insane queues to check-in and then more queues to enter the shopping mall. It's those flights that need to show a radical improvement in the LHR experience before T5 can be truly deemed a success.

I have only ever used T4 once, and I found it the worst departures experience of my life. Due to arriving via LGW and a taxi, I was at T4 about 4-5 hours before ETD to USA. Not permitted to check in or do anything until about 3 hrs before so I was stuck land-side with virtually no facilities in a crowded slum. And, I agree, I found the queues for "Fast Bag-Drop" [:(] and Security were dire.

Adding the collection of long-haul pax [350 per flight?] from T4 to T5 could make life quite interesting, I guess.

Good to hear [I]simfly had a painless T5 experience, though. Perhaps it's actually beginning to function!

[IainB]

Went through T5 on Tuesday, as I had a meeting in Colnbrook and its easier than driving from oop north.

No probs getting off the aircraft and plenty of people in blue t-shirts offering help for taxi routes etc.

On returning to the airport for the flight home, trouble free run through security and transit to the gate, although the x-ray machines were a pain with some pax really taking the pi$$ on hand baggage. These things are bl**dy suitcases! Sort it out.

Didn't have time for anything other than a quick walk past the shops before the flight was called and we went through another security check and normal gate procedure. Flight pushed back on time, but the 20 min taxi was slightly tedious before take-off.

Having said all this, I was just commuting in and out and with a briefcase only. Might be different with real luggage!

Overall thumbs up and a definite improvement on T1, but will wait and see with my other two trips this year if the experience is still positive.

[staplefordheli]

Anyone seen the new T5 spoof on youtube
Now you know where all the PAX bags went

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=sNlEpkqVvWc&feature=related

[Bristol based Taffy]

What's the date for this action, and is it likely to one mass move or a slow trickle??

Agree will be interesting once BA gets all in flights in one basket....oooppss sorry not going to happen...T5 TOO SMALL !!!:ugh:

[ojs]

Taffy, the move is scheduled for April 30 when a further 20% of BA flights move from T4 to T5. The difference this time is that it's long-haul which means (obviously) more pax and more baggage. There was a time that they were considering putting off the move, but sounds like the various parties have sorted things out.

You can find out more about it here (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/routedest/public/en_gb).

I'm not sure whether that leaves any BA flights in T4, but I agree that even with the size of T5 it's amazing (or should that be irritating) that they can't fit them all in. I want T5 for my trip to Australia, not T3!

[ZarfBeam]

Hi,
I'm going to use T5 next tuesday morning for the first time.
As I'll be only for 30h at my destination until proceedding further on, I hope that baggage handling is sorted out until then...
Nevertheless, I'll stick to my habit to have a 2day survival-kit in the cabin bag.
Having only one seriously bad experience using BA last year (security queues outside the building 4 times the distance between entrance 1 and 3 at T4), I'll be happy if it works like during the remaining experience (>10 departs from LHR without problems except delay < 1h).
I'll let you know.

Chris

[Skipness One Echo]

It's not 20% of the BA operation due to more on the 30-Apr it's around HALF. There are many threads on here and other sites on this matter, leaves Bangkok, Singapore and Sydney at T4 until next year when they join the B757 fleet at T3

[antonovman]

That is fabulous

[BAFQTV]

Hi Zarfbeam

Having been through T5 4 times (in 1 week) I experienced no problems whatsoever.
-Helpful pleasant staff
-No delay at checkin
-No delay at fast bag drop
-On time departure (well we were closed up ready but waited for ATC - std LHR stuff really)

The return trips were uneventful (apart from some muppet leaving the jetway out of position - result steps and a quick walk in).

A very positive experience - Willies champagne bar is rather good too, especially with no long haul PAX filling up the lounge.

Enjoy

Just to put all the other comments into perspective, I had to wait 20 mins last night for a Swiss flight to get from the runway onto stand. LHR is still the same overcrowded little airport.

[Skipness One Echo]

BAFQTV you GOTTA be BA management lol !

[Two-Tone-Blue]

At 1737 today I received an email from BA telling me that "all or part" of my booked flight to IAD will now be going through T4 instead of T5.

I'm not sure which is Terminal is worst, but at least they're letting the paying punters know what's going on, and for that I'm grateful.

As for the rest of the LHR operation, there's going to be blood on the carpets before this story is complete :uhoh:

[Willie Wash]

Wonder if any of you can remember this far back? The calm before the storm as the chaos was brewing in the bowls of the beast. You really must watch this clip, if not just for Sir Colin Marshall, head of BAA who calls WW 'Willie Welsh'!!!! What a clutts! Hilarious, maybe 6am was a little early for his lordship to get the grey matter all lined up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frRZy2rtAzY&NR=1

[ExSp33db1rd]

Danny, post 1141 - definition of Expert : X is the unknown quantity and a spurt is a drip under pressure.

[Willie Wash]

Today (12 Apr 08) Tessa Jowell Minister stated the following;


The shambles at Heathrow Airport's new Terminal 5 has damaged the capital and is costing the city international business

No doubt the place is a running joke, much to our shame the fiasco rolls on and on. The sooner those at the top accept accountability and resign, the sooner the staff may feel empowered to actually start making a difference.

[Willie Wash]

Martin |Broughton breaks silence in todays Telegraph, say's Willie has to the end of June to get it right. Jokes about giving his confidence in Willie is the last act before he exits. Willie your on notice, as if you didn't know!

[derekvader]

Kate Moss received an instant compensation payment of £10,000 after being caught up in the Heathrow Terminal 5 chaos.

After arriving in Los Angeles following a flight with BA, the supermodel was horrified to discover that the airline had lost eight of her suitcases.

Included in the lost luggage was Moss's secret new Topshop clothing range, which she had brought to the States for a photoshoot.

A source told the Sunday Mirror: "Kate was caught up in the appalling scenes at T5 and just like thousands of other people experienced first hand the incompetence of BA. But unlike the rest of us, BA staff were fawning all over her. They paid £10,000 right away."

Six of Kate's cases have since been found and returned to her. She will return to London tomorrow following her two-week visit to the US.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/a93697/moss-gets-special-treatment-from-ba.html

Well I guess BA desperately need to hold on to any First/Business customers still wishing to fly with them ...

[Richard Taylor]

Hope Ms Moss wasn't carrying any other items in those suitcases, given her record...:rolleyes:

(I'd better add ALLEGEDLY.....):}

[markrl]

I assumed the unpopular Kate Moss being publicly humiliated before being ejected from a BA aircraft was part of BA’s new PR campaign to restore its popularity with the travelling public. Perhaps they could give free first class tickets to other tarnished celebrities such as Gary Glitter and Michael Barrymore so they too could be thrown off in a blaze of publicity. Many senior Labour politicians would also make excellent candidates. Give the fare paying public what they want and restore BA to its former position as the world’s favourite airline. ;)

[VAFFPAX]

Mark, you confuse Ms Moss with Ms Campbell.

Campbell was ejected, Moss was not. Moss made a fuss after arrival, Campbell made her fuss before departure. Moss got a nice payoff, Campbell got arrested and banned.

S.

[markrl]

VAFFPAX many thanks for pointing out my error you are of course quite correct. I never was very knowledgeable re celebrities. Apologies to Miss Moss and all for the confusion. :ugh:

[Evileyes]

A gentle reminder, the topic here is 'Chaos at Terminal 5'. There is another thread specifically devoted to those desiring to trash BA management.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321175

If you are missing posts you may find they were moved there.

Thanks,
The AA&R Mods

[al446]

There could be relevance there Evileyes. Most pax are equally disturbed by the chaos, most have to go through filing claims but celebs get instant judgment way above what many may claim only to have it challenged. It displays chaotic thinking.

[Seloco]

At the risk of injecting a positive post into a sea of negativity, I visited T5 yesterday (first time since doing some pre-opening trials) to meet and later drop off a travelling colleague, and was pleasantly surprised because:

short term car park was free for two hours and I parked adjacent to the terminal entrance
there seemed to be clearly marked helpers about every three metres to answer queries
said colleague was through into arrivals within 20 minutes of landing time
good range of cafe facilities in check-in area for business discussions
very short queue for departures security

So, whilst I will never like the design of the building, I do think it can eventually be made to work reasonably well.

[infrequentflyer789]

Some insurers are now refusing to cover for baggage loss / cancellations for travellers using T5:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7348139.stm

I guess it must have cost them a large chunk in payouts to be taking that step.:ouch:

[Heidhurtin]

I was booked on BA942 LHR - DUS on Sun 6 Apr, the day it snowed! The flight was inevitably cancelled, and I have to say that T5 seemed a pit of misery and despair to me and others. I had to get to Germany for a military appointment, and being forewarned about T5 I'd booked my suitcase into left luggage and took only hand baggage.

The positive - the BA staff (there seemed to be loads of them wearing T shirts saying "can I help?") were unfailingly polite and patient. One chap spent about 35 - 40 mins persuading and cajoling others to get me onto the BA940, which had been delayed, even though the gate had been closed for some time. I eventually got to DUS on BA940 about 2 hours after my planned arrival. I didn't catch the fella's name, but he was ex-RAF BA flight crew.

I just wanted to thanks, whoever you are, it was appreciated. :D:ok:

[cockpitvisit]

BA's Kirkwood and Noyes to go after T5 disaster (http://www.businesstravelworld.com/nav?page=businesstravelworld.gen_obj_redirects.news&fixture_news=7148745&resource=7148745&view_resource=7148745)

[cwatters]

> Some insurers are now refusing to cover for baggage loss / cancellations
> for travellers using T5.

BBC News 24 just quoted one insurance company as saying... This is nothing new... they never insure for known risks.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

You may be interested to know that I have now received 6 emails from BA telling me my flight will now be going from T4 instead of T5. I think I have the message.

And who is paying for these dozens of people wearing " i " t-shirts? BAA, BA or ... possibly the fare-paying passengers?

[derekvader]

Some insurers are now refusing to cover for baggage loss / cancellations for travellers using T5:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7348139.stm

I guess it must have cost them a large chunk in payouts to be taking that step.

Hmmm insurers really taking that action are on extremely dodgy ground I'd say. A contract is a contract and they can't just randomly decide not to cover certain events without reissuing everyone's policy, which will cost them a fortune just for the paperwork, let alone the right to cancel that they'll have to offer everyone. Unless their management is as moronic as BA's. If they do refuse to pay out to someone without properly reissuing the policy and that person kicks up a fuss in the media, the loss of future business will dwarf what they would have had to pay out for a few lost bags.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Re #1177 ...

As I have read it, this applies to short-notice one-off travel policies, where the known pre-existing condition of T5 vis-a-vis baggage loss risk could be relevant.

Extant [e.g. annual] policies are apparently unaffected.

Unless the insurers decide otherwise on the day, of course.

[derekvader]

Hmmm well if so that's a disaster for BA then. Having the world's only insurance-void mainstream airport terminal will take years to undo.

[BAMANAGER]

To all those who think matters are progressing smoothly at T5, this is what the PR machine would want you to believe. Smooth is far from true. Indeed some business aquaintences called me today, 6 club pax, gold card holders travelling to conference, BA manage to lose all their cases! What a bunch of clowns. You guessed it, the total indiscriminate attack on their business plans and they have decided to chuck the towel in with BA. THey have said, enough is enough and are going to route with other large euro carriers.And guess what, even my cafe latte was luke warm today. Seems nothing is going right.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Curious that there have been no posts here for 4 days.

Is this £4Bn story yesterday's chip-wrappers after all?

Does one assume that T5 is now "Heaven on Earth", apart from the small matter of the long-haul still stuck at T4?

I see my return from the USA on 18 June is now confirmed as being into T4 ....

[Skipness One Echo]

Couldn't help but hear that all the BA flights for Terrible 5 were being given stand allocations such as "Stand 501, OCCUPIED" on Friday. Now I know the operation was running behind due winds and Delivery forgetting to put people in the start up queue, ( oh the sound of frustration as everyone realised there was a good chance they weren't even in the queue after having gate held for 40 mins + ), but T5 isn't half full, why the Hell couldn't they allocate another stand? Are BA still not staffing adequately?

[BAMANAGER]

I think the media are still watching and waiting. WW's name is hanging over the door, any more mishaps he'll have to walk. My money's on him walking sometime soon.

[Flag Officer]

Perhaps this is now a non-story and the wrinkles have been ironed out. I shall be able to judge for myself on Thursday when BA have the simple task of flying me to Germany for the day - void of ANY baggage. First flight out, last but one home. We'll see!

[ZarfBeam]

Hi,
15.04.2008, 7:30 from T5 to Vienna was OK.
Security queue took around 10min. ...

Today 27.04.2008 back from DUS to T5 was good. No queue at border control and my bag arrived just a minute after I was at the belt.
Seems like 14:00 is a good time to arrive?

Hopefully this is normal for all passengers, and even when the other flights move to T5 in some months.

Btw: No queue at DUS security although it was a busy day. From previous experience they are pretty quick in opening / closing additional gates according to the amount of people coming to.

[slip and turn]

Sir Nigel Rudd and Colin Matthews of BAA now giving evidence on Terminal 5 problems.

Sir Nigel just shed a little light on why Steven Nelson reappeared after his forced move to wherever he went, in order to host the Opening by HM Queen ... and lots of other interesting stuff ... although the woman in the blue scarf and glasses sitting behind them, seemed to nod off at one point :p

[Jamesair]

I came through T5 on 5th May from Athens arrived about 1630....baggage on belt before we arrived in the area. Immigration Hall more or less empty..straight through customs.


All in all a fantastic experience.

[11K-AVML]

Those rooms are usually quite warm!

The minutes and transcripts from the meeting should be available at somepoint in the near future via the following website:
http://www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/transport_committee.cfm

Direct page might be:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmtran.htm
but it's too early for the link to show just yet.

[c46r]

BRITISH Airways boss Willie Walsh is flying into a row over a bonus of up to £1million – weeks after the Terminal 5 fiasco.:ugh:

[mackey]

Perhaps he should donate all his pay and bonuses in compensation to the unfortunate pax that had all the hassle :ugh: in Terminal Dive!!.........er I mean 5!!

M.

[Southernboy]

I wonder too about Kirkwood & the other geezer? Bet they didn't walk empty handed.

[Madbob]

It's been 6 weeks since the last post on this thread. Can anyone tell me if T5's problems have been sorted?

MB

[SWBKCB]

Perhaps, like me, people have voted with their feet and now avoid the place.:ok:

[HZ123]

Much has improved and many of the systems are operating properly. There are still missed bags in/out and there are still outstanding work to be completed within and without the terminal/ area. There are still about 30% of BA flights to be moved from T4 to complete the evacuation from 4. This will now not take place until October. That said by October there will be a number of changes which may well include grounding a number of older a/c and reducing services, as the oil price is causing severe problems with many routes for the summer well below the seat figure required.

[Basil]

Just back from NYC.
T5 worked perfectly both ways. Immigration and baggage very fast.
Came back World Traveller - BA crew down the back couldn't have been better. :ok:


JFK inbound really have to sort out the non US immigration delay. We usually go in via EWR which is fine.

[Aisle2c]

That's great to hear though we'll need a foggy friday in November to see it under pressure again :). I was one of those whose flight was one of the 136 (?) cancelled back at the start of April so it'll be a while before I attempt T5 again !

As a BAA worker said to me, "that's what you get for building an airport next to a shopping centre" !!!

[WHBM]

Nobody at BA wants to actually do anything any more. They all want to be managers. Managers only handle backroom functions, they don't handle bags, or even instruct others out in the baggage room (nasty dirty place), and they most certainly do not speak to passengers. That, dear friends, is for underlings to do.

[Evileyes]

Fair enough, LHR has a thread, please contribute to it.