What height do YOU fly at ?

[PompeyPaul]

I fly at 2,000ft amsl on the QNH. Why ? Well, I did through all of my training. Thinking about it though, why do I do that ? I don't really know. Why don't I fly @ 3,000ft amsl ? Well, that's just for stall practice.

As I brimble about I see lots of other pilots @ 2,000ft and so it seems a common practice.

Somebody mentioned that flying higher is better because you will pass over danger areas more readily. Thinking about this, it's true, 2,000ft does seem to put you into quite a few danger areas if your navigation goes ever so slightly wrong.

So what altitude do you fly at ? And why ? Do I simply use the quadraleteral rule in future and fly that FL (obviously after examining my charts for CAS) ?

[Miserlou]

As high as possible (10,000') for point to point, making use of VFR 'on top' if necessary.

Reasons, economy(fuel flow), efficiency(TAS), safety(thinking time for emergencies), workload(less airspace restrictions/comms).

But I'd be happy at 500' if I couldn't get higher.

[scooter boy]

2000' seems to be the norm in the UK for most VFR fixed wing pilots.
Mainly because the cloudbase tends to be around this level and rarely is it possible to go anywhere at a higher level without penetrating cloud on this cloudy windswept little isle of ours.

1500' seems to be the rule for helicopters - my instructor told me that helo pilots get nosebleeds above 1500' so best to stay low!:\

If I am VFR fixed wing I go higher for tailwinds (as high as I legally can)and lower into headwinds but keep at least 1500' agl (if I can).

If I am IFR outside of CAS then I like at least 2000' AGL.

If I am IFR in airways then I file for FL090-130 depending on winds.

If I am VFR in the helo it is up to 2000' AGL.

Round number VFR altitudes (like tracking directly over VORs) are best avoided in order to minimise the chances of "sudden aluminium".

SB

[Martin @ EGLK]

If bimbling or if site seeing is part of the journey (the norm), then I usually fly at 2,200. 2 reasons: 1 - I avoid the norm & 2 - 2k2 is an easy altitude to read as both hands in the dial are together.

If long distance then I go up to about 5,000. You start getting the benifits that Miserlou mentions and can often be over any enroute CAS. The altitude required for the most direct routing is often chosen.

And if you don't believe Scooter boy's warning about VOR's, go up to about 7,000 near (not too near) a VOR on a busy day & look down. It won't be too long before you have to take your shoes & socks off to count the aircraft.

[DX Wombat]

A minimum of 1,000' above the highest marked point on my route (unless that would bring me into conflict with Controlled Airspace) plus a further 300' for any unmarked obstacles - and there are plenty of those lurking around to catch out the unwary.

[IO540]

VFR UK: 2300ft under the LTMA, elsewhere I fly weird numbers like 3700ft, 4300ft, etc. Stay in Class G, usually. 1000ft above terrain, obviously (all VFR flights are planned and navigated as IFR).

VFR in Europe: Plan A is VMC on top, as high as one can, say FL100. Plan B is OCAS, which might be 1000ft or whatever.

IFR UK OCAS: as for VFR UK.

IFR (airways): In good conditions, file a flight plan for the lowest allowed Eurocontrol level (usually FL120, sometimes FL070 and sometimes FL150). In suspect conditions, file for FL180. In all cases, ask for a "stop climb" when VMC on top, to get best MPG and conserve oxygen.

There is an additional factor in VFR flights: you don't want to get into a corner at the destination, arriving above a thick overcast layer, and pretending to be VFR ;) So, one needs to descend early, somewhere out of the way of anybody, to be sure to arrive below the cloud. Unless the forecast for the destination is clearly CAVOK.

[IO540]

Gemma, you are quite right.

One could be approaching some airfield which is reporting "CAVOK", but which is OVC060 and if flying VMC on top, you can't legally descend while maintaining VFR.

This is rarely a problem in the UK because there is so much controlled airspace at/above 5000ft.

It is a real issue when going abroad, say France, but then a UK/JAA issued PPL holder cannot fly out of sight of the surface anywhere unless he has an IMCR or an IR.

And if he has the IR he might as well be on an IFR flight plan and be done with all this "VFR nonsense". Unless he is > 2000kg.....

The traditional VFR solution is to find a "hole in the cloud" ;) and descend through that. Just don't do it in the overhead where everybody will see you popping out of the cloud. Obviously your navigation has to be good!

Another CAVOK gotcha is that you can have unlimited wind. Another one is that horizontal vis can fall down to 5000m before the CAVOK status is revoked; this is OK for radio nav but no good for visual nav unless you know the area well.

Minimum Safety Altitude (MSA) is (in the UK) defined as the highest obstacle within 5nm of track, plus 1000ft, IIRC. The Sector Safety Altitude (SSA) is something else; it is the number printed in the middle of each map square, and represents the highest point within that square (plus a little margin extending into the 8 squares adjoining), and adding 1000ft to that figure should do the job. The SSA+1000ft is safer than the MSA.

The whole issue of terrain clearance and VFR is clouded because many people think "I am flying VFR, therefore I am visual, therefore I don't need to plan the altitude". This is OK until you enter IMC, either deliberately or accidentally. IMHO it's better to plan every flight as IFR and fly it as planned. However, one can't do sightseeing or bimbling that way.

[big.al]

Depends on a number of things but as a rule:

Local bimble at 2700ft QNH, or 2300 if the cloud is a little low. Keeps it simple if I'm doing a route via, say two or three waypoints. These numbers keep me away from the many people at 2000, 2500 and 3000. Cloud lower than that, probably won't go unless I'm just circuit bashing for practice.

Cross-country, cloud permitting I'll find a low quadrantal (eg. FL35-FL60) but this obviously depends if I'm transitting CAS - and whether FL35 is available. In class G, a low FL will keep me above most ATZs, glider launching sites and some restricted or danger areas (eg. prisons and gas venting stations).

All my flying is VFR.

[Genghis the Engineer]

With some nice flight planning software (I'm currently trying out flymap win which I'm reasonably impressed with) you can just look at the en-route airspace profile, and do your best to pick a single height that gets you all there avoiding all the airspace above and below you. Strangely, this almost always works out for me at 2,200ft.

Then I modify for conditions.

G

[shortstripper]

My old VP2 stuggled to get over 2000' feet so I got used to flying around at 1000' or less :ugh:

But seriously ... Over water, as high as I can get (even over to the I.O.W) but usually around 1500 usless I'm going somewhere. It's quite cold in an open cockpit when you get up and over 3-4000' so unless it's to clear airspace ect I only go up there now and again to remind myself that I can :p

SS

[drauk]

So many people seem to say "avoid 2,000' because everybody flies there" that I fly at exactly 2,000' with my eyes shut.

[ShyTorque]

I fly all over the place, never could do that straight and level stuff.

I never put the ball in the middle either, in case something falls off and hits the tail. ;)

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

How high do I fly? It very much depends on what I’m flying.

If it’s a slow, quiet aeroplane, such as a J3 Cub or Tiger Moth etc, I normally fly as low as I legally can, taking into consideration potential forced landing territory, Rule 5 and any Permit to Fly conditions etc. If it’s a high performance or noisy aeroplane, or one that’s going to be difficult in a forced landing scenario, the height goes up dramatically, so I’ve got a better chance of picking a suitable field if the fan stops.

But I do ALWAYS fly at odd heights (1650ft, 2300ft etc) to reduce the chances of meeting soembody else flying exactly round numbers....

[Pitts2112]

On a cross-country, usually 800'-1500' AGL. You can't see much if you're any higher and cross-country flying is boring without something interesting on the ground to look at.

On all other sorties, anywhere between 500'-7,000' AGL!! :):):)

Pitts2112

[sternone]

If I am IFR in airways then I file for FL090-130 depending on winds.


When do you start to use oxygen ?

[IO540]

When do you start to use oxygen ?

At 8k-10k, definitely at 12k. On a 5-6hr flight, o2 makes a big difference (to how tired one gets) even at 8-10k.

It becomes a flight planning issue because the two of us get through a whole bottle on such a flight if we have to climb to FL160, so I carry another bottle.

[S-Works]

FL100-150 generally, higher if needed, lower when possible for all the reason that IO has stated.

I go onto O2 at FL50 when heading into the airways. O2 is cheap and no reason not to use it. I have an O2D2 unit and can get around 30hrs from a tiny High Pressure cylinder.

[Dysonsphere]

Intresting question, normally 2300 around west London to advoid the 2000` plp and the 2450plp.

[SQUAWKIDENT]

2200-2300ft QNH in local area (BNN/WCO/CFD)

2500-2800ft QNH enroute if the surrounding airspace lets me

[Whirlybird]

It depends.

I don't like routine that much. I don't eat the same thing for breakfast every day, and I don't always fly at the same height.

Of course it might depend on controlled airspace or cloud. it might also depend on the wind...if I go higher or lower am I likely to get more or less of a headwind/tailwind, and will the wind increase/decrease? Actually it rarely makes much difference, but I tend to work it out anyway.

If I'm not talking on the radio and no-one cares, I bimble along at whatever height I feel like, and vary it as I feel like. After all, why not? I spend enough time instructing and having to be - or teach someone else to be - at a certain altitude. So if I'm having fun, who cares.

I tend to go lower flying helicopters than f/w, but again, it depends.

I used to avoid 2000ft in crowded areas, but read so often that I should fly at 1800 or 2200 ft that I decided it would make no difference. And I once told an ATCO I was at 2200 ft, and he instantly told me to be at 2000ft...oooooo, too unconventional, was I?

Over the sea - as high as possible. Over woods, ditto.

I could go on but I think you get my drift.

[Established Localiser]

Height = extra glide range in the event of a dead Donkey ! therefore I try to get as much height as Airspace and Cloud will allow.
Matter of choice I guess,
Just flown from Barton - Sywell today pretty much all at 4000ft where allowed.
EL

[flybymike]

Reference post number 9 Cavok ceases to exist below 10km not 5.
Mike

[BeechNut]

Where I live, it's more or less mountainous (highest mountains about 3000 ft), but with broad valleys with farmland. Valleys vary from about 100 to 800 ASL. So for putt-putt sightseeing, usually around 2000 ASL in the valleys; plenty of emergency landing fields; and in the St. Lawrence Valley, well it's one big emergency field. If I have non-aviator pax, I go up to at least 3000 ASL to get out of the chop. Cross-country, I play it by the winds for best efficiency and speed. Areas with few emergency landing choices, higher.

There is a sightseeing circuit around downtown Montreal. Very popular day and night. They start stacking us in the circuit at 1500 ft ASL (about 1200-1300 AGL), at 500 ft intervals, or even at 200 ft intervals if it is really busy. I entered the circuit with non-pilot passengers once at 2000 ft, at night; ATC offered me 1500 if I wanted to as there was nobody below me. I said "no thanks". The pax could see just fine at 2000 ft and I didn't want to give up 500 ft of decision-making time in the event that the squirrel in the cage got tired. In fact I would have taken higher but there were planes stacked above.

I did have emergency landing sites picked out just in case; a few wide boulevards and expressways, and the docklands. In fact last year a C172 managed to do an emergency landing on a downtown boulevard. Nobody was hurt. Only damage was a dinged wingtip from a street sign. Plane had to be dismantled to get it out.

[Ringway Flyer]

2k around a 'honey pot', such as Crewe or the Wrekin, demands eyes everywhere, so I prefer to be at 3k+ whenever possible, especially in those areas. It also gives you a bit more time to sort things out if the donk gives up.... And as high as possible over water! Btw - some allowance needs to be made for QNH - regional/local above airfields or in the local CTA - make sure you've set the correct one for where you are - and has everyone else?

[PompeyPaul]

Thanks for replies. I really like this tip:

If bimbling or if site seeing is part of the journey (the norm), then I usually fly at 2,200. 2 reasons: 1 - I avoid the norm & 2 - 2k2 is an easy altitude to read as both hands in the dial are together.

[englishal]

Typically 4000-6500 MSL on a cross country "going somewhere" in the UK. Keeps you clear of all terrain and everyone else. Depends on airspace though. Sight seeing typically, 500-1000AGL.

US: Typically 11000-12000 over desert areas and mountain passes.

Not used 02 yet. Hoping to this autumn so I can get to FL200 on some of my trips.

[scooter boy]

When do you start to use oxygen ?

FL100-110 depending on what my sats probe says and how I'm feeling. Sometimes I start it lower if I am feeling the effects. I do not smoke and am pretty fit but even so by FL120 I am well aware of hypoxic symptoms.

I once had a couple of consultant anaesthetist friends in the back of my plane on an airways trip abroad - when one of them could no longer calculate the alveolar gas equation by mental arithmetic we figured it would be a good time to don the masks.:E

My ovation 2 has a very capacious O2 bottle and O2 is relatively cheap but filling a "fitted" bottle within the UK is not easy as there are not too many places with the capability to fill you.

SB

[cirrus01]

Have often thought that there should be an "unofficial" convention on altitudes around the London airspace ..........often get opposite direction traffic at the same level no matter what altitude ...........

I'm talking about flying around the London CTR class A, underneath the LTMA especially where squeezed by other airspace. It wouldn't cater for all flight headings but a suggestion would be to fly Clockwise =EVENS ( 1200,1400 ,1600 etc, Anti-clockwise = ODDS ( 1300,1500,1700 etc )

What do you think ???

[High Wing Drifter]

What Whirly said. If I have the headroom I will tend to find the height where the turb stops, but generally I don't bother trying to hold an altitude any more. If I get a bit of an uplift that wants to add 200' then I fly 200' higher - so be it.

[foxmoth]

On my list of most useless things in aviation - sky below you - fly high when you can.:}

[shortstripper]

On my list of most useless things in aviation - sky below you - fly high when you can.

Yes, but there's an awful long way to fall if you do ;) I can't help thinking that if God had meant us to fly ... he'd have invented aeroplanes :\

SS

[foxmoth]

You mean he didn't?:}

[shortstripper]

No ..... but he's around in great numbers flying them! :E

[gingernut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rw9BfTbHDE&NR=1

This guy doesn't seem to come across any conflicting traffic.(Nicked from Jet Blast)

Me mum never used to mind me going flying, as long as I didn't go too fast, or too high.....never did bother to explain.:)

[flybymike]

Foxmoth, I believe that altitude above you and not "sky below you" is one of the most useless things in aviation! Of course this goes hand in hand with runway behind you and fuel in the bowser, :)

[neilmac]

Today was 2200ft followed by 500-600ft AGL with Rule 5 in mind. Took off at 0700L in PA28 down to Eaglescott,what a beautiful morning! With a bit of low level navex using Ord survey map with turning points to find, partial panel and stop watch. See you can make PA28 flying more challenging then back via north devon coast to Wiltshire. Mates idea, oh and also we have been at FL180 but thats another thread!

NM

[neilmac]

CJBOY,

Yep pretty smug lol FL430,I always remember a story whether true or not your a biz jet flyer? Whatever ATC agency in the states
cessna" N XXXX report level and speed"
ah 100 kts 4000ft
after a few guys report higher and faster
Learjet pilots pitches up 350kts? at FL400 in a smart ass voice

Pause as the SR71 pilots says FL550 descending now subsonic!

My figures may be wrong but the scenrio was right!!


NM

[flybymike]

I think that was the same SR71 pilot who said "you aint never been lost until you been lost in a Blackbird"....

[mm_flynn]

The version I read was

Cessna 123x - we seem to have a bit of a headwind what is our ground speed?

Center - 85 knots

Lear 123LL - What's our ground speed?

Center - 320 kts

Eagle 1 (f15 in full afterburner)- What's our ground speed

Center - 785 knots

Sled 1 (voice sounds like it is in a space suit) - what's our ground speed?

Center - 1850 knots!

-----------------------
the other one is.

"Flight Service this is sled 2 can you give me winds at FL700?"

Flight Service - "And how are you going to get up there?"

Sled 2 - "We are descending to it!"

[englishal]

and fuel in the bowser
Unless you are on fire ;)

Done FL210 once in the UK in a "light" aeroplane. Was quite interesting as the cabin altitude was 15000' and rising :)

[Tim Dawson]

As high as I can, avoiding cloud and airspace, for decent cross-country trips. Being standard PPL this typically works out in the 3000' - 4000' range.

There are some good points in this thread about avoiding "standard" (or round number) altitudes.

[SQUAWKIDENT]

There are some good points in this thread about avoiding "standard" (or round number) altitudes.

Yes - but now everyone has read this thread they'll adjust their altitude accordingly and be banging into each other :hmm:

Think I'll stick to 2499ft *ducks*:p

[er340790]

Bit different here in remotest North-West Ontario (Class B only starts at 16000'). Europe was a nightmare - Northern Holland has Class A down to 1500'.

Tend to fly here at 5000-10000' as 90-95% of our days are OK for VFR. When using the J3 (on straight floats) stick to a max 5000' - no mixture control so it runs overly rich above that.

Apart from the safety factors, the additional altitude makes XC Nav Ded Reckoning far easier.

Happy flying!

[OpenCirrus619]

Just avoid cloudbase - that's were the folks with no engines hang out.

Seriously though - if it's a good (for gliders) weekend with a few nice Cu spread across the sky be prepared to find upwards of a dozen gliders circling under each one.

If there are "streets" of clouds be ready to meet a glider doing 80kts, in a straight line, at cloudbase.

Begin so aerodynamic they can be a little difficult to spot. Imagine this one a mile away!!!
http://www.whiteplanes.co.uk/images/gliders/gliders5.jpg

OC619

[HR200]

I fly in the Vale Of York AIAA quite often, so i try and fly between FL70 and FL110 and days that permit.

Especially when flying over the humber bridge, I have been over there on days and seen over 200 gliders circling below, the ATC controller gave up giving me traffic alerts and just said Good Luck!! Climb as high as possible, lol!!

Best feeling in a light aircraft when peaking over FL100, amazing!!