What height do YOU fly at ?
Pompey till I die
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What height do YOU fly at ?
I fly at 2,000ft amsl on the QNH. Why ? Well, I did through all of my training. Thinking about it though, why do I do that ? I don't really know. Why don't I fly @ 3,000ft amsl ? Well, that's just for stall practice.
As I brimble about I see lots of other pilots @ 2,000ft and so it seems a common practice.
Somebody mentioned that flying higher is better because you will pass over danger areas more readily. Thinking about this, it's true, 2,000ft does seem to put you into quite a few danger areas if your navigation goes ever so slightly wrong.
So what altitude do you fly at ? And why ? Do I simply use the quadraleteral rule in future and fly that FL (obviously after examining my charts for CAS) ?
As I brimble about I see lots of other pilots @ 2,000ft and so it seems a common practice.
Somebody mentioned that flying higher is better because you will pass over danger areas more readily. Thinking about this, it's true, 2,000ft does seem to put you into quite a few danger areas if your navigation goes ever so slightly wrong.
So what altitude do you fly at ? And why ? Do I simply use the quadraleteral rule in future and fly that FL (obviously after examining my charts for CAS) ?
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As high as possible (10,000') for point to point, making use of VFR 'on top' if necessary.
Reasons, economy(fuel flow), efficiency(TAS), safety(thinking time for emergencies), workload(less airspace restrictions/comms).
But I'd be happy at 500' if I couldn't get higher.
Reasons, economy(fuel flow), efficiency(TAS), safety(thinking time for emergencies), workload(less airspace restrictions/comms).
But I'd be happy at 500' if I couldn't get higher.
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2000' seems to be the norm in the UK for most VFR fixed wing pilots.
Mainly because the cloudbase tends to be around this level and rarely is it possible to go anywhere at a higher level without penetrating cloud on this cloudy windswept little isle of ours.
1500' seems to be the rule for helicopters - my instructor told me that helo pilots get nosebleeds above 1500' so best to stay low!
If I am VFR fixed wing I go higher for tailwinds (as high as I legally can)and lower into headwinds but keep at least 1500' agl (if I can).
If I am IFR outside of CAS then I like at least 2000' AGL.
If I am IFR in airways then I file for FL090-130 depending on winds.
If I am VFR in the helo it is up to 2000' AGL.
Round number VFR altitudes (like tracking directly over VORs) are best avoided in order to minimise the chances of "sudden aluminium".
SB
Mainly because the cloudbase tends to be around this level and rarely is it possible to go anywhere at a higher level without penetrating cloud on this cloudy windswept little isle of ours.
1500' seems to be the rule for helicopters - my instructor told me that helo pilots get nosebleeds above 1500' so best to stay low!
If I am VFR fixed wing I go higher for tailwinds (as high as I legally can)and lower into headwinds but keep at least 1500' agl (if I can).
If I am IFR outside of CAS then I like at least 2000' AGL.
If I am IFR in airways then I file for FL090-130 depending on winds.
If I am VFR in the helo it is up to 2000' AGL.
Round number VFR altitudes (like tracking directly over VORs) are best avoided in order to minimise the chances of "sudden aluminium".
SB
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If bimbling or if site seeing is part of the journey (the norm), then I usually fly at 2,200. 2 reasons: 1 - I avoid the norm & 2 - 2k2 is an easy altitude to read as both hands in the dial are together.
If long distance then I go up to about 5,000. You start getting the benifits that Miserlou mentions and can often be over any enroute CAS. The altitude required for the most direct routing is often chosen.
And if you don't believe Scooter boy's warning about VOR's, go up to about 7,000 near (not too near) a VOR on a busy day & look down. It won't be too long before you have to take your shoes & socks off to count the aircraft.
If long distance then I go up to about 5,000. You start getting the benifits that Miserlou mentions and can often be over any enroute CAS. The altitude required for the most direct routing is often chosen.
And if you don't believe Scooter boy's warning about VOR's, go up to about 7,000 near (not too near) a VOR on a busy day & look down. It won't be too long before you have to take your shoes & socks off to count the aircraft.
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A minimum of 1,000' above the highest marked point on my route (unless that would bring me into conflict with Controlled Airspace) plus a further 300' for any unmarked obstacles - and there are plenty of those lurking around to catch out the unwary.
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VFR UK: 2300ft under the LTMA, elsewhere I fly weird numbers like 3700ft, 4300ft, etc. Stay in Class G, usually. 1000ft above terrain, obviously (all VFR flights are planned and navigated as IFR).
VFR in Europe: Plan A is VMC on top, as high as one can, say FL100. Plan B is OCAS, which might be 1000ft or whatever.
IFR UK OCAS: as for VFR UK.
IFR (airways): In good conditions, file a flight plan for the lowest allowed Eurocontrol level (usually FL120, sometimes FL070 and sometimes FL150). In suspect conditions, file for FL180. In all cases, ask for a "stop climb" when VMC on top, to get best MPG and conserve oxygen.
There is an additional factor in VFR flights: you don't want to get into a corner at the destination, arriving above a thick overcast layer, and pretending to be VFR
So, one needs to descend early, somewhere out of the way of anybody, to be sure to arrive below the cloud. Unless the forecast for the destination is clearly CAVOK.
VFR in Europe: Plan A is VMC on top, as high as one can, say FL100. Plan B is OCAS, which might be 1000ft or whatever.
IFR UK OCAS: as for VFR UK.
IFR (airways): In good conditions, file a flight plan for the lowest allowed Eurocontrol level (usually FL120, sometimes FL070 and sometimes FL150). In suspect conditions, file for FL180. In all cases, ask for a "stop climb" when VMC on top, to get best MPG and conserve oxygen.
There is an additional factor in VFR flights: you don't want to get into a corner at the destination, arriving above a thick overcast layer, and pretending to be VFR
So, one needs to descend early, somewhere out of the way of anybody, to be sure to arrive below the cloud. Unless the forecast for the destination is clearly CAVOK.
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Gemma, you are quite right.
One could be approaching some airfield which is reporting "CAVOK", but which is OVC060 and if flying VMC on top, you can't legally descend while maintaining VFR.
This is rarely a problem in the UK because there is so much controlled airspace at/above 5000ft.
It is a real issue when going abroad, say France, but then a UK/JAA issued PPL holder cannot fly out of sight of the surface anywhere unless he has an IMCR or an IR.
And if he has the IR he might as well be on an IFR flight plan and be done with all this "VFR nonsense". Unless he is > 2000kg.....
The traditional VFR solution is to find a "hole in the cloud" and descend through that. Just don't do it in the overhead where everybody will see you popping out of the cloud. Obviously your navigation has to be good!
Another CAVOK gotcha is that you can have unlimited wind. Another one is that horizontal vis can fall down to 5000m before the CAVOK status is revoked; this is OK for radio nav but no good for visual nav unless you know the area well.
Minimum Safety Altitude (MSA) is (in the UK) defined as the highest obstacle within 5nm of track, plus 1000ft, IIRC. The Sector Safety Altitude (SSA) is something else; it is the number printed in the middle of each map square, and represents the highest point within that square (plus a little margin extending into the 8 squares adjoining), and adding 1000ft to that figure should do the job. The SSA+1000ft is safer than the MSA.
The whole issue of terrain clearance and VFR is clouded because many people think "I am flying VFR, therefore I am visual, therefore I don't need to plan the altitude". This is OK until you enter IMC, either deliberately or accidentally. IMHO it's better to plan every flight as IFR and fly it as planned. However, one can't do sightseeing or bimbling that way.
One could be approaching some airfield which is reporting "CAVOK", but which is OVC060 and if flying VMC on top, you can't legally descend while maintaining VFR.
This is rarely a problem in the UK because there is so much controlled airspace at/above 5000ft.
It is a real issue when going abroad, say France, but then a UK/JAA issued PPL holder cannot fly out of sight of the surface anywhere unless he has an IMCR or an IR.
And if he has the IR he might as well be on an IFR flight plan and be done with all this "VFR nonsense". Unless he is > 2000kg.....
The traditional VFR solution is to find a "hole in the cloud"
and descend through that. Just don't do it in the overhead where everybody will see you popping out of the cloud. Obviously your navigation has to be good!Another CAVOK gotcha is that you can have unlimited wind. Another one is that horizontal vis can fall down to 5000m before the CAVOK status is revoked; this is OK for radio nav but no good for visual nav unless you know the area well.
Minimum Safety Altitude (MSA) is (in the UK) defined as the highest obstacle within 5nm of track, plus 1000ft, IIRC. The Sector Safety Altitude (SSA) is something else; it is the number printed in the middle of each map square, and represents the highest point within that square (plus a little margin extending into the 8 squares adjoining), and adding 1000ft to that figure should do the job. The SSA+1000ft is safer than the MSA.
The whole issue of terrain clearance and VFR is clouded because many people think "I am flying VFR, therefore I am visual, therefore I don't need to plan the altitude". This is OK until you enter IMC, either deliberately or accidentally. IMHO it's better to plan every flight as IFR and fly it as planned. However, one can't do sightseeing or bimbling that way.
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Depends on a number of things but as a rule:
Local bimble at 2700ft QNH, or 2300 if the cloud is a little low. Keeps it simple if I'm doing a route via, say two or three waypoints. These numbers keep me away from the many people at 2000, 2500 and 3000. Cloud lower than that, probably won't go unless I'm just circuit bashing for practice.
Cross-country, cloud permitting I'll find a low quadrantal (eg. FL35-FL60) but this obviously depends if I'm transitting CAS - and whether FL35 is available. In class G, a low FL will keep me above most ATZs, glider launching sites and some restricted or danger areas (eg. prisons and gas venting stations).
All my flying is VFR.
Local bimble at 2700ft QNH, or 2300 if the cloud is a little low. Keeps it simple if I'm doing a route via, say two or three waypoints. These numbers keep me away from the many people at 2000, 2500 and 3000. Cloud lower than that, probably won't go unless I'm just circuit bashing for practice.
Cross-country, cloud permitting I'll find a low quadrantal (eg. FL35-FL60) but this obviously depends if I'm transitting CAS - and whether FL35 is available. In class G, a low FL will keep me above most ATZs, glider launching sites and some restricted or danger areas (eg. prisons and gas venting stations).
All my flying is VFR.
With some nice flight planning software (I'm currently trying out flymap win which I'm reasonably impressed with) you can just look at the en-route airspace profile, and do your best to pick a single height that gets you all there avoiding all the airspace above and below you. Strangely, this almost always works out for me at 2,200ft.
Then I modify for conditions.
G
Then I modify for conditions.
G
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My old VP2 stuggled to get over 2000' feet so I got used to flying around at 1000' or less 
But seriously ... Over water, as high as I can get (even over to the I.O.W) but usually around 1500 usless I'm going somewhere. It's quite cold in an open cockpit when you get up and over 3-4000' so unless it's to clear airspace ect I only go up there now and again to remind myself that I can
SS
But seriously ... Over water, as high as I can get (even over to the I.O.W) but usually around 1500 usless I'm going somewhere. It's quite cold in an open cockpit when you get up and over 3-4000' so unless it's to clear airspace ect I only go up there now and again to remind myself that I can
SS
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I fly all over the place, never could do that straight and level stuff.
I never put the ball in the middle either, in case something falls off and hits the tail.
I never put the ball in the middle either, in case something falls off and hits the tail.
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How high do I fly? It very much depends on what I’m flying.
If it’s a slow, quiet aeroplane, such as a J3 Cub or Tiger Moth etc, I normally fly as low as I legally can, taking into consideration potential forced landing territory, Rule 5 and any Permit to Fly conditions etc. If it’s a high performance or noisy aeroplane, or one that’s going to be difficult in a forced landing scenario, the height goes up dramatically, so I’ve got a better chance of picking a suitable field if the fan stops.
But I do ALWAYS fly at odd heights (1650ft, 2300ft etc) to reduce the chances of meeting soembody else flying exactly round numbers....
If it’s a slow, quiet aeroplane, such as a J3 Cub or Tiger Moth etc, I normally fly as low as I legally can, taking into consideration potential forced landing territory, Rule 5 and any Permit to Fly conditions etc. If it’s a high performance or noisy aeroplane, or one that’s going to be difficult in a forced landing scenario, the height goes up dramatically, so I’ve got a better chance of picking a suitable field if the fan stops.
But I do ALWAYS fly at odd heights (1650ft, 2300ft etc) to reduce the chances of meeting soembody else flying exactly round numbers....
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On a cross-country, usually 800'-1500' AGL. You can't see much if you're any higher and cross-country flying is boring without something interesting on the ground to look at.
On all other sorties, anywhere between 500'-7,000' AGL!!
Pitts2112
On all other sorties, anywhere between 500'-7,000' AGL!!
Pitts2112
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When do you start to use oxygen ?
At 8k-10k, definitely at 12k. On a 5-6hr flight, o2 makes a big difference (to how tired one gets) even at 8-10k.
It becomes a flight planning issue because the two of us get through a whole bottle on such a flight if we have to climb to FL160, so I carry another bottle.
At 8k-10k, definitely at 12k. On a 5-6hr flight, o2 makes a big difference (to how tired one gets) even at 8-10k.
It becomes a flight planning issue because the two of us get through a whole bottle on such a flight if we have to climb to FL160, so I carry another bottle.
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FL100-150 generally, higher if needed, lower when possible for all the reason that IO has stated.
I go onto O2 at FL50 when heading into the airways. O2 is cheap and no reason not to use it. I have an O2D2 unit and can get around 30hrs from a tiny High Pressure cylinder.
I go onto O2 at FL50 when heading into the airways. O2 is cheap and no reason not to use it. I have an O2D2 unit and can get around 30hrs from a tiny High Pressure cylinder.
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It depends.
I don't like routine that much. I don't eat the same thing for breakfast every day, and I don't always fly at the same height.
Of course it might depend on controlled airspace or cloud. it might also depend on the wind...if I go higher or lower am I likely to get more or less of a headwind/tailwind, and will the wind increase/decrease? Actually it rarely makes much difference, but I tend to work it out anyway.
If I'm not talking on the radio and no-one cares, I bimble along at whatever height I feel like, and vary it as I feel like. After all, why not? I spend enough time instructing and having to be - or teach someone else to be - at a certain altitude. So if I'm having fun, who cares.
I tend to go lower flying helicopters than f/w, but again, it depends.
I used to avoid 2000ft in crowded areas, but read so often that I should fly at 1800 or 2200 ft that I decided it would make no difference. And I once told an ATCO I was at 2200 ft, and he instantly told me to be at 2000ft...oooooo, too unconventional, was I?
Over the sea - as high as possible. Over woods, ditto.
I could go on but I think you get my drift.
I don't like routine that much. I don't eat the same thing for breakfast every day, and I don't always fly at the same height.
Of course it might depend on controlled airspace or cloud. it might also depend on the wind...if I go higher or lower am I likely to get more or less of a headwind/tailwind, and will the wind increase/decrease? Actually it rarely makes much difference, but I tend to work it out anyway.
If I'm not talking on the radio and no-one cares, I bimble along at whatever height I feel like, and vary it as I feel like. After all, why not? I spend enough time instructing and having to be - or teach someone else to be - at a certain altitude. So if I'm having fun, who cares.
I tend to go lower flying helicopters than f/w, but again, it depends.
I used to avoid 2000ft in crowded areas, but read so often that I should fly at 1800 or 2200 ft that I decided it would make no difference. And I once told an ATCO I was at 2200 ft, and he instantly told me to be at 2000ft...oooooo, too unconventional, was I?
Over the sea - as high as possible. Over woods, ditto.
I could go on but I think you get my drift.