Radio call before engine startup

[luigi_m_]

During my PPL, we allways did our engine startup and checks before putting in a call to ATC, but I just wondered what other pilots view would be on calling ATC, and then doing the engine startup, plus reasons for and against it?

[Mikehotel152]

Depends on the type of ATS at the airfield.

If it's Air/Ground Radio only, then I think you're fine doing what you've always done.

A full ATC will probably want you to request an engine start. Same goes for an Information service, I think? :confused:

[PompeyPaul]

From where I fly the AFIS want a call before you start taxiying, rather than before engine start. I was lead to believe that aircraft batteries were not that adept at supplying lots of electrical items and so you really don't want to switch the radio on until the alternator is running.

Certainly when I do my alpha check (pitot heater, landing light, stall warner etc) I don't leave these items on for very long as the engine is not running at this point.

Who knows about big 747's etc ?

[gcolyer]

It all depends on the operations procedure for the airfield. Nothing to do with the type of ATC.

Example:
Ronaldsway Isle of Man. Start her up and do what you got to do, then request taxi and departuer information

Bristol Filton. Pre start checks, call for engine start permission, start her up and do what you go to do, then request taxi and departure information.

[Twiddle]

I tend to call for start at any airfield I've not started at before unless you can hear that the procedure is otherwise from the RT.

as gcolyer says, nothing to do with the type of ATC, if they're radio and have parachute dropping they'll probably want you to call for start.

[luigi_m_]

Well, it's Biggin Hill, so obviously no parachuters, but I guess calling up before engine start will save a few tacho minutes...

[Fuji Abound]

The idea behind it is to avoid your starting engines and then AT telling you they cant get you away for half an hour. Depending on the aircraft it is a major hassle to shut everything down again (although not so for most of us).

As others have said it therefore really comes down to the airport. At anything reasonably large you will probably have called AT from ops to book out anyway so just ask then if they require a start up call when you are on the 'phone to them.

I suppose if you are not sure it just as easy to ask before, but the worst that can happen if you start without doing so is you call for taxi to be told there will be half an hours delay. Guess you will just shut down again in that case.

(Edited to add having just read the question properly)

I guess you could save yourself a cup of fuel if there are some checks you can get out of the way before startup. For example it is interesting some people start and then sit on the pad fiddling around putting their route into the GPS which if it is complicated make take a while when this could all be done with the engines off.

However on some types (with glass cockpits) watch you dont drain the battery whilst doing so.

Also, you will see plenty of people call for startup and then start with all the avionics still switched on,

and finally in the winter when it is cold running the engine for a while longer on the pad may be no bad thing anyway to bring it up to operating temp.

In short, all down to the circumstances.

[Cusco]

In airfields where startup needs radio permission I use the trusty Icom:Same applies to getting the ATIS: saves on a/c batteries I imagine.......
And confirms the Icom is working in case it's needed in anger later in the flight.
Safe (and informed) flying
Cusco;)

[englishal]

Normally it is broadcast on the ATIS or in some flight guide or other.....

If in doubt at an ATC field, call for start and even if you didn't have to they will clear you to start. I think I have done it once in 7 years?

[CapCon]

Biggin Hill does not require a call before start up, or didn't when I did my training there a couple of years ago.

As Fuji Abound says, the best thing to do is to ask when you come to book out, either in the ops room or talking to the tower on the phone.

Cheers,

CapCon

[bookworm]

I'd always call for start for a airways flight with a possibility of a slot (saves starting and then shutting down!). I would also tend to call for start for IFR where a clearance needs to be coordinated with Approach or another agency. It gives ATC more time to sort it out. Otherwise only if specifically required by AIP.

[pulse1]

I've always understood that it can damage a radio if the starter is used when the radio is switched on. Something to do with spikes, I was told.

I once had an engine stop on final and we had to advise ATC that we were switching off the radio before restarting the engine to taxi clear.

[Winco]

I would always call for start clearance, irrespective of where I was at, if for no other reason than to advise others of the fact. There is also the comfort in knowing that if you have a problem on start up - engine fire? cabin fire? that you know the radio is working when you start calling for help!

Pulse 1, I've never heard of 'spikes' from starting an aircraft with the radio switched on. Likewise, if your battery cannot sustain a couple of calls whilst on the ground, then I would suggest that you have something wrong somewhere!!

The Winco

[tangovictor]

I also was taught, never start or stop the engine with the radio on, due to spikes,

[soay]

I also was taught, never start or stop the engine with the radio on, due to spikes
So was I, but you've got no choice with the G1000. It's got to be powered up before the engine is started, in order to display the engine instruments, and that also switches on COM1. The other radios are powered up with the avionics master switch, after startup.

[betterfromabove]

In Europe, thought you only needed to call for start-up clearance if you were on an IFR flight plan?

Post 9-11, in the States, you have to call before start even VFR at the majors (I had to do it at Salt Lake City one time), but for security reasons.

[gcolyer]

Like I said it depends on the airfield operating procedures.

[englishal]

I have never had to call up and request an engine start - VFR or IFR. Nor have I ever read it in the AF/D when reviewing an airfield's info. (at least in California).
me neither....even though Jet Blue may do it.

[Knight Paladin]

Current RAF practice, even on Elementary training aeroplanes - Grob Tutors and the like, is to have radios on pre-start, local procedures will dictate whether they are also checked pre-start. Does mean you have someone to squeel to in the unlikely event of a fire on startup, although that's obviously only a factor if at an airfield with fire cover!

However, as the avionics fitted are relatively new and shiney, they may, for all I know, have built in over- and under-voltage protection, that may be lacking in older radios. That's based on absolutely knowledge of avionics design, a pure unadulterated guess!

[luigi_m_]

Many people have mentioned "spikes" when starting the engine with the avionics still on, so what if you turned the radio stack off quickly while you started the engine? Admitedly, you would be out of radio contact for a minute or so, but...

[scooter boy]

Luigi - I agree, this is what I do while starting up my non-G1000 equiped aircraft.
I flick the avionics master back on as soon as the engine sounds happy and haven't blown any valves yet.

The G1000 equiped aircraft I fly seems to have no problem with having the unit on during startup and shutdown - it must be armoured to protect it from the spikes!:8

SB

[Fuji Abound]

I can think of more than a few places in the UK where the ATIS or local procedures request you call for engine start.

Scooter.

I switch the avionics off during start. I must check whether this is a recommended G1000 procedure and maybe it is just a case of old habits etc.,
(I appreciate this only isolates part of the avionics, and there is no alternative for those that remain on with the master on.)

[Whirlybird]

I've been to about 100 airfields in the UK, and I can only think of two that want you to call for engine start - Filton and Southampton. At both, they let me know in advance. Southampton pointed out that they might have to keep me waiting for a while, so it was better not to start up if that was the case...and in a helicopter running is expensive and starting up and shutting down takes a while, so I appreciated it.

So basically, if you're somewhere largish with full ATC, ask when you book in. Otherwise you might as well forget it.

[Mikehotel152]

I never have the radio on when starting or stopping....except when I forget to flick the switch...which obviously happens once in a blue moon...:rolleyes:

[betterfromabove]

Hi Socal

This was Sep 02 at SLC, so not sure if things have cooled down now.

Begs all the usual questions about the damage a little C172 can do or what-about-all-those-unmanned A/F's within 20 mins of the city of course...

BFA

[IO540]

The reason for avionics off during engine start is because the starter motor generates powerful spikes, going up to a few hundred volts, for a few milliseconds.

There is even an ISO spec with the pulse shape which the [automotive] product has to withstand. It's not a problem to design to the spec. Needless to say, avionics designers have never seen this, and have no reason to, because the starter motors used in planes are totally different to ones in motor vehicles (actually they are identical) :ugh:

Historically, most avionics would get blown up by the spike, though not always and perhaps not the first time.

The spike also gets coupled (inductively and capacitively) into nearby cabling and could get into avionics through onforeseen channels (if the wiring is badly routed).

A lot of seasoned pilots regularly going to big airports use a handheld radio to do the departure clearance and engine start calls, so they don't waste avgas.

[Norfolk Newbie]

I'm still training at an A/G airfield which has regular parachuting.

I have always been taught to request engine start, turn off radios and then start, obviously turning radios back on after start.

It seems to be a good option to me due to parachutists and spinning blades not getting along particularly well:hmm:

Whether this is particularly sensible at busier, ATC controlled fields is currently well outside my experience and I'd welcome guidance either way.

[Fuji Abound]

It seems to be a good option to me due to parachutists and spinning blades not getting along particularly well

Fair point, and if it is the operators requirement then clearly you should request start up - his field etc, he can within reason establish whatever local procedures he likes.

However, if that is not the case, and I knew parachuting was taking place, I think I would rather have a quick glance upwards before startup.

I can think of at least one very popular parachuting location where the A/G operator would have no way of seeing whether there was anything above, below or around you to hinder a start so asking would be pretty pointless :).

[Cusco]

A quick glance up before startup in a PA28 will tell you precisely nothing.

A local A/D with an A/G service and parachuting which I frequent has the 'call for startup' rule when the paradropping a/c is in the air.

The Drop a/c has radio and the dropzone geezer on the ground are all on a/d frequency:
Start up will be approved while the drop a/c is climbing and the a/c self announces progress in the climb, time to drop etc.

Once the meatbombers have left the aeroplane no startup is allowed till all the canopies are down, which is announced by the dropzone chap.

It is simplicity itself to listen out on the back up Icom while all this is going on.........

Cusco;)